This country's not for sale ... not for all the yuan in China

Discussion in 'China' started by JAISWAL, Jan 21, 2012.

  1. JAISWAL

    JAISWAL Senior Member Senior Member

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    It's easy to get caught up in the amazing story of China's growth and the economic potential it presents for Australia. So easy, in fact, that it's easy to forget China is still the world's largest totalitarian dictatorship.

    It’s a nation where the heavy hand of the state looms large, where the current rulers maintain their power through a repressive military apparatus and where people who seek freedom of expression or religion are regularly and systematically oppressed.

    In China, there are no elections. There’s no free speech. There’s no free media. There’s no independent justice system. There are no independent trade unions.

    And while the idea of no independent trade unions might make some people in the Liberal party very happy, it doesn’t seem to make the life of a Chinese worker very happy.

    For example, in the past decade, close to 48,000 Chinese miners have been killed at work. That’s what happens when you don’t have free trade unions, and when you have occupational health and safety laws that are rarely applied.

    But despite decades of ‘gentle’ pressure on China to open itself up and embrace democracy, even a little bit, a true Chinese democracy seems further away than ever.

    In fact, just this week, the President of China, Hu Jinato, said in a Chinese Communist Party magazine that “We must clearly see that international hostile forces are intensifying the strategic plot of westernizing and dividing China … We should deeply understand the seriousness and complexity of the ideological struggle, always sound the alarms and remain vigilant, and take forceful measures to be on guard and respond.”

    These are not the words of a man who is thinking about holding free and fair elections. These are the words of a man hell-bent on strengthening his iron grip on power.

    It seems to me that Australian values are far too often compromised when it comes to dealing with China, especially if it means we can make a quicker buck off the back of China’s dictatorship.

    And this is no longer just about whether we should criticize China’s human rights violations or not – it’s now also becoming a question of who we should be allied with.

    There are some in Australian politics who advocate shifting our alliances from the US (and our other democratic allies) to a more neutral stance internationally in order to offend China less. The idea is that if we turn a blind eye to the fact that the Chinese government routinely incarcerates political activists in work camps, then they might throw a few more billion yuan our way.

    I would call this blood money.

    The fact is that while the growing economic links between Australia and China have numerous benefits for our two countries, we are still oceans apart when it comes to values, beliefs and the underlying central tenant of our country: democracy.

    It’s a stance that requires us to ignore the central truth that human rights are universal and that our alliances should be based on economic interests alone rather than aligning ourselves with those who most share our values.

    But the idea that we should favour our hip pocket over our basic belief system is one that has many friends.

    In early December The Australian’s Foreign Editor Greg Sheridan wrote a blistering critique of two speeches delivered late last year by Malcolm Turnbull.

    In those speeches, Turnbull worryingly appeared to endorse the view that it’s in Australia’s interests to weaken the power of the US in order to grow the power of China so as to create a situation “in which the powers are in balance, with each side effectively able to deny the domination of the other”.

    Sheridan responded to the Turnbull speech’s by writing “Malcolm Turnbull has delivered two important speeches on China that help explain why he was such a disastrous Liberal leader and why he should never be considered for the leadership again.”

    It’s a pretty blunt assessment from Sheridan but arguably one that is not unfair. After all advocating for China’s insurgence at the expense of the US was an idea floated by another former leader - Mark Latham. And we all know how that ended.

    A lot of this discussion occurred when US President Obama visited Australia at the end of last year and announced the establishment of a Marines base in Darwin.

    Those who favor compromising our democratic principles for the sake of economic growth were worried about how the Chinese would feel about a permanent US presence in Australia.

    They thought that maybe the Chinese wouldn’t have noticed that we have a strategic military alliance with the USA, and that by having a permanent Marine base in Darwin, we were unnecessarily drawing attention to it.

    Indeed, it was the billionaire mining magnate and major Liberal Party donor, Clive Palmer, who said that the base was a “poke in the eye for China”.

    He even went further saying that he and other mining bosses boycotted the state dinner at Parliament House for President Obama for fear of offending China. He said, "Why do you think the likes of the head of BHP and myself didn't go to the dinner? We have real interests (in China) and know how the Chinese.Source~~ This country's not for sale ... not for all the yuan in China | thetelegraph.com.au
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2012
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  3. cir

    cir Senior Member Senior Member

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    The one thing that the West, Australia included,does not lack is the fools who appear in,write and read such articles。

    Hilarious!

    And the Indian who posts this trash with a broad smile of mirth must think that his fellow countrymen are being treated nicely by the Aussies。:rofl:
     
  4. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    If you are only willing to do business with democratic regimes, then I am afraid you will soon run out of trade partners. Just my 50 cents
     
  5. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Then Australia shouldn't trade with us. we wont die. Its funny that a country riding an economic boom driven by trade with China can produce such. Of course there are no elections wise-ass, its a COMMUNIST state. And finally, we are no one's bitches. China will do what it wants, when it wants. I hate the fact that people can have the gall to try to force china to embrace democracy. Who the F are you to tell a sovreign country what and what not to do?
     
  6. mylegend

    mylegend Regular Member

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    Who the hell are you telling Chinese do not want democracy?

    I do oppose foriegner use this as tool to influence China, however, who the hell are you make a statement that Chinese dislike democracy? You must love Li Gang and His son then.

    However, not trading with China will do Chinese more harm and secure the dictatorship and spur hatred against foreigner it is not the way to go.

    Another fact is country have become so interdependent, not trading with China is impossible and harmful.
     
  7. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Do you speak for all Chinese? And second, do you want to be told what do do by the West? Wich form of government? Which nation to ally with and which not to? China is no ones puppet period.

    Of course it would be harmful to both economies, but much more harmful to the Australian economy. It is the worst form of hypocrisy when a country boyd by a mining sector boom solely due to Chinese imports of Australian iron ore can spout such bull crap. "This country's not for sale... not for all the Yuan in China"? I'll say it again: IF AUSTRALIA FINDS IT SO DISTASTEFUL TO TRADE WITH CHINA, THEN DON'T.
     
  8. mylegend

    mylegend Regular Member

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    I am asking you too, do you speak for all Chinese? There is people prefer democracy, some prefer maintenance of current state. However, you can not make statement that Chinese do not want democracy. I said I like democracy and you said you do not. However, non of us, speak for the whole population. Democracy is not about being told what to do by the West. It is about government being told what to do by the people.

    I prefer peaceful transmission to democracy that begin within the party, however, this is not possible if people like you keep saying democracy is evil. Just look at former premier Li Peng's family's wealth, we can tell whether or not this regime is corrupted.
     
  9. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    You misunderstand me. I didn't say we do not want democracy. I said : " I hate the fact that people have the gall to try to force China to embrace democracy". When China and its people decide to shift towards democracy, then let it be so. But where the west tries to force democracy on China, hell no. It is for us to decide, no one else. Do you want to become an Iraq? Forced militarily and politically to become democratic. A million lives lost and everyone significantly poorer with a puppet "democratic" regime in place and rampant corruption. because I assure you my friend, there will be a LOT more lives lost if we are forced into democracy. I'm sorry man, but I DO NOT want that for China. Why do you think the US is posting troops all over the Pacific? An increase in Guam, 2500 in Darwin, they're not there to pick daisies.
     
  10. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    brothers, you must understand something like '兄弟阋于墙,外御其侮'. in that case, why are you doing it at an Indian forum?
     
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  11. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    :D :D :D Quoted for future!
     
  12. mylegend

    mylegend Regular Member

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    Sure, it is unreasonable to discuss about this in this forum. Many member here lack knowledge about the country and give some insane comments... I'm just saying there are also people for democracy but also for stability in China.
     
  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    How are they fools?
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    What does it mean?
     
  15. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sorry~ you won't get the answer from me
     
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    One should not get paranoiac that the US is maintaining its bases in the Pacific with the sole aim to undertake an Iraq in China.

    That is an impossibility!

    US cannot do an Iraq on China!

    Pushing up (the) daisies means dead and buried. (Usually in the future tense.)Eg You'll be pushing up daisies before this problem is solved. If you talk to me like that again, you'll be pushing up the daisies.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2012
  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Is it something bad?

    If so, I don't think it is fair that you should write something one cannot understand.
     
  18. mylegend

    mylegend Regular Member

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    Nothing negative, simply meant it is okay for brother to argues, but when their is a external enemy, they will fight together against it. It is a proverb that express solidarity. It is a proverb that originated over 2000 yrs ago...
     
  19. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Great.

    Banzai to you all! :)

    I hope you don't think that others on the DFI as 'external enemies'!!! :rofl:
     
  20. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Thankyou nimo. Very wise of you, as per usual.

    PS. Ray, I said picking daisies, not pushing up daisies.
     
  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Is there some idiomatic term as picking daisies?

    There is easy picking, cotton picking, cherry picking, picking (up) a fight, nitpicking, picking the brains and so on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2012

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