There is no Religious Freedom In Tibet

Discussion in 'China' started by Ray, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    There is no Religious Freedom In Tibet

    Lobsang Sangay, head of the Tibetan government-in-exile in Dharamshala, was in Delhi recently for the Tibetan solidarity campaign. The former Harvard academic spoke to Ashish Yechury about the wave of self-immolations in Tibet which have left as many as 99 Buddhist monks dead.

    The last time there was a dialogue between the Tibetans and the Chinese authorities, there was some agreement about the Tibetan Autonomous Region. But then the talks broke down. What happened?

    The last time we engaged the Chinese was in January 2010. The talks broke down because when we proposed genuine autonomy for Tibetans, the Chinese did not consider it. There is a document called memorandum of genuine autonomy but the Chinese government did not agree with that. They did not propose or agree with anything . Instead, they offered criticism. They saw our definition of autonomy as hidden independence. But whatever we listed in the memorandum corresponds to provisions of the Chinese constitution about Tibet. We asked them to implement that but they refused.

    You do not want to break with China?

    We are not challenging China's sovereignty or territorial integrity. We seek genuine autonomy within the People's Republic of China. That they refused.

    How do you propose to engage with the Chinese meaningfully?

    At the moment there is no engagement. We are willing so it is dependent on them. We are waiting for them to reciprocate. We are waiting for Xi Jinping to take over in March to see how the Chinese respond to our offer.

    Over the last 50 years, China has changed and become more moderate with changing leadership . How do you see this change?

    China has changed only for the Han Chinese. If you want to see moderation in China, Tibet is the catalyst. If you want to see moderate China for the rest of the world, Tibet is the test. If they change their policy for Tibet, it would be the first time they would do so for non-Hans , and that will go a long way. What we seek is moderation in China where they accept diversity. They should accept Tibetans as equals.

    China has become more open to religion. It is funding monasteries and restoration of Buddhist monuments?

    The funding and restoration is for tourist purposes. The monasteries are funded if they stay "patriotic" . Practising religion is another matter. In all the 7,000-odd monasteries they have, democratic management committees of Chinese Communist Party members control recruitment and disciplining of monks. They throw you out if you disagree. What kind of freedom is that? In practice there is no religious freedom. That is why most of the self-immolators are monks.

    How do you see the transition in the Chinese leadership?

    Let's wait for the transition to happen. Given our past experience with the Chinese, we're not optimistic, but we remain hopeful.

    You stress on India and the international community having an important role in resolving the issue of Tibet. What do you expect them to do?

    We want the international community to pressure China through the UN to open up Tibet to international observers so what is happening in Tibet can come out. China has always made Tibet a core issue in all its negotiations so India should do so too in its dialogue with China.

    What is the four-day programme in New Delhi all about?

    The programme is part of "solidarity with Tibet" campaign that we launched on March 10, 2012, which was also the world human rights day. A major event was organized in New York and now in January it is happening in New Delhi. February 10 is Tibetan New Year and we have given a call to not celebrate it this year in solidarity with Tibetans inside Tibet who died -- 99 people have immolated themselves. On March 10, we have a major event planned in Brussels in front of the European parliament. The year 2013 is going to be devoted to our "solidarity with Tibet" campaign.

    Do Tibetans in exile have anything to do with self-immolations in Tibet?

    No. We discourage drastic action including self-immolation . But we support the aspiration of the return of the Dalai Lama to Tibet and freedom for Tibetans.

    There is no religious freedom in Tibet - The Times of India

    ****************************************************

    This is an interview with Lobsang Sangay, head of the Tibetan government-in-exile.

    He makes interesting points.

    There can be no dispute that religion is controlled in China. There are underground Churches and China does not recognise the authority of the Pope in Vatican. In fact, there was a huge spat between the CCP and the Chinese Govt with a Bishop (was it of Shaghai?) who wanted to have the independence of the Church from the State.

    China is wary of the loyalty of the Tibetans and that is no secret. They have rejected the call for autonomy like that of Hong Kong, as raised by some people of Hong Kong to solve the issue. China is worried that under the guise of autonomy, the Tibetans will wrest their independence. A valid fear, more so when the international community supports that contention.

    For good historical reasons China cannot accept the independence of any non Han community since that would go against their concept of harmony and law and order that they have maintained because of having the rest of the country converted to Han and Han identity wherein differences are not that pronounced that can affect the Chinese and Han integrity and sovereignty.

    The monasteries and the restoration goes to bring in good foreign exchange and the Han, is totally wedded to money a the sole index of happiness. Therefore, restoring monasteries for the tourist trade is most essential and religion is nowhere in the picture. In fact, visiting monasteries is mandatory to having a tourist guide in tow who in actuality is a minder.

    International pressure on China is a pipedream since nations are more keen to shore up their economy with cheap and beneficial deals with China.

    The international community, no matter how much they shed crocodile tears, are well aware which side of the bread is buttered!
     
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  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    One cannot blame China for its approach to Tibet or Xinjiang or to the Church where they are trying to usurp the ascendancy from the controlled CCP approach to religion.

    These people, Tibetan, Uighurs or the Christians in China are too turbulent and independent and too steeped in religion as if that is the be all and end all of existence.

    Religion has no place in China since, as is seen around the world, is the cause of all the woes and sorrows.

    China believes in harmonious existence with supreme attention to law and order.

    Therefore, maybe they are right to ensure that religion does not take the prime place, but more of a tourist curiosity.

    Like it or not, China is one of the few countries where social harmony rules, even if it is through very tough ways of ensuring.

    They keep discord to the minimum so that the focus on development is without silly problems like religious divides!

    Even though the policy of the wiping out of non Han influences forever is not right or even humane, it is possibly the only way to keep the Nation as a whole with minimum disruption.

    Communism could achieve it.

    We have to wait and see if the new liberalisation and China necessity to wipe with the world can ensure the same!
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  4. satish007

    satish007 Senior Member Senior Member

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    not freedom at all. Chinese Han's God is money. Central Govenment keep giving finance allowances to Tibet Autonomous Region.
    2012 Tibet got total 90Billion RMB(700B Rupee) allowance.
    Tibet has only 2000,000 population(low birthrate in high altitude and high suicide rate) so almost $6000 per capta in 2012(Indian income $1000 per capta).
    but Tibetan do not buy it at all and keep burn themself. Who can forget Dalai lama and take money especially crap RMB as God.
    2013 they allowance will reach $10,000 per capta if they keep suicide.
    Indian bhai should free Tibetan and send back Dalai Lama and take the evil money from them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
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  5. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    @satish007

    Very ungrateful chaps to keep burning themselves.

    Maybe they care for China more.

    That is why they are cutting down the population so that China does not waste money? ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  6. Novice

    Novice Regular Member

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    Bribing historically has not achieved any goal in such complexity. Americans fed the hungry Pakis, downtrodden by their shoddy policy of war mongering for last 60 years. Ultimately when Americans slowed down the influx of lavish and easy moolah, they started biting the once overlords. Whatever they spent went down the drain like frigging beads on a slope. Keep wasting your money and the day you got weak, they would hit back and very hard. Just a matter of time.
     
  7. satish007

    satish007 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Keep wet dreaming,china lead the world booming the economic,Chinese very smart able to copy everything
    even we weak,Taiwan and japs will take care of us first,Indian mostly need to think twice you guys scared and then you guys Need the stupid democracy call the shoot and if tibet still has not new owener you guys will conrl Tibet. Tibetan will never be a back stabber as India and china.
     
  8. Novice

    Novice Regular Member

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    With all the due respect, Satish007, I could not understand anything from your post. Why would China boom the Economy? Isn't China on an expansion spree of Economy? What do you mean by Chinese are smart because they can copy? Isn't that the classic definition of stupidity? I don't know how true is that but there's an opinion that Russians were fed faulty design of nuclear power generator through KGB which eventually led to Chernobyl. Are you wanting to repeat history with your fighters?

    :headache:

    Also what are you saying that Taiwan and Japan are going to decimate you even before we get a chance? Well, why would we when you are already in living in stone age? Can't push you further back, Can we?

    :confused:

    :eek:hplease: Mother of all. Tibetans would never back stab? Are you kidding me? Their allegiance is not with you. You have captured a sovereign nation and indulging in crime against humanity. You are the back stabbers promising autonomy and giving atrocity, not them.

    Maybe someone who debated with you before would follow your language better because i am still beating around the bushes. OMG i could have finished a novel with less question marks. :rotflmao::rotflmao:
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
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  9. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    In other news, the sun rose in the east this morning.
     
  10. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Welcome to the world political game!

    Yes, they can hit back and very hard. But history suggests that Chinese can hit back even harder. That was why our "peace lover"-dalai turned to negotiating table: he lost in the battlefield.

    CCP gave the tibetans 2 options: hammer or candy. Looks like they choose the latter.
     
  11. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    i think it's good information about per capita income perspective which we hardly ever hear about given the e info blackout

    thanks for letting us into this info
     
  12. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    China world’s “most egregious violators” of religious freedom: US Commission
    http://www.tibetexpress.net/en/news/world/10508-2013-05-03-10-47-15
     

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