There is more to it than meets the eye

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by Adux, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-sh...low-an-egypt-uprising-in-kashmir/20110303.htm
     
    Rage likes this.
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  3. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    http://www.dailypioneer.com/321316/Chinese-threat-looms-large.html
     
  4. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    If what is said in the first article is anywhere near a possibility, then Beijing must made into a glass bowl. We may be go down, but we are taking them with us.
     
  5. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    The article has a point. There is only one way to deal with the Chinese. By preparing for war, we will actually have averted it.
     
  6. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    The best form of defense, is and always will be offense. There are times and situations I feel the chinese will just grab some amount of land, and threaten nuclear war, and we will back down. But, it didnt happen in 1999 Kargil! will it happen today?
     
  7. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    A new cold war will start if not already. One of the adversary won it and has sixty years of experience in it. New alliances will come into place. One of them will be in asia. The new NATO will be in asia. China has no friends in asia worth mentioning. It is trying to destroy the very countries it made money of including the US. Don't know what their thinking is. I am sure india will be part of such an alliance in the future which should neutralize the chinese nuke threat against smaller nuclear as well as non nuclear powers.
    On an immediate basis, may be we can start with trade sanctions with china in response to their diplomatic offensives. We are not going to be hurt by it as the balance of trade is heavily in their favor.
     
  8. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yusuf,

    In the long run, China's growth will stagnate, but it would have created a great economy for itself, domestic market would be its main source, not US. China will replace US as the biggest market for Chinese goods. We have failed heavily in diplomatic front, Tibet is a gone issue now. But we can bring stapled visas for Tibetians for sure. US is very very important to us, it is a two way street, we have to make some concessions for them. We will need to bring our strategic forces to a level, where a complete destruction of Chinese and Pakistani state is possible, nothing short of that. if it is, then we are as good as gone.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  9. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I don't quite agree with the strategic force level. China managed to deter the mighty soviets with just 12 bombs. China continues to deter the two major nuke powers with just 300-400 nukes which is not capable of destroying either of them.
    What we need is strong conventional force. I don't see a sino-indian war going nuclear. China too is increasing its conventional force dramatically, both quantitatively and qualitatively. That is a major concern for us as well as the rest of the world. India too has to follow the same path. A hundred or a couple of hundred nukes are enough as a deterrent.
     
  10. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    China doesnt see us the same way they see USA and Russia. They are very aware of our soft approaches. I never said conventional forces shouldnt be a priority at all, I was only talking about increasing the strategic force. China will grab land, unless it is sure we will knock its damn wind out for sure. "Loss of face" is a great deterrent
     
  11. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Why else is china using Pakistan against India. They know they cannot do a 62 again. A stalemate of a war is also a loss of face for them so they are using Pakistan. I dont see how China can win a war with India even with todays level of Indian preparedness. Nothing short of a drubbing is good for China and that is not going to happen.
     
  12. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    China cant win a war with India, given. But they are using Pakistan, not because they are desperate, but Pakistan is available and that too for some lousy ruppees. If China grabs another chunk, while India is at war with Pakistan, will our politicians hit back. We have problems with Antony calling on the Navy to mount a rescue mission for sailors caught by Somali's
     
  13. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Cheap shot that will invite international condemnation and may be action. India has to play the cards well and become strong friends with the US. If india is at war with Pak and US senses any chinese movement, it can help by sending a carrier group into South China Sea. That can happen only if we are good friends with the US.Strategic friends that is.
     
  14. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    India must start preparing itself with a mind frame that neither the US or anyone in the world is going to help it counter China. India must use the Tajikistan airbase as a full fledged operating platform. It would be wise to have hardcore military talks with Vietnam. India must have some kind of military base near China.
     
  15. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Tajik base is long gone if you have missed it.
     
  16. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    It seems Indian members here are counting the very country which abandoned India during 1962 war. India alone is not powerful enough to challenge China and join the alliance is probably the best choice. However, such alliance is very fragile and those countries advocating Chinese threat are increasingly relying on China’s market for their own prosperity. India’s sanction to China will not make a dent to Chinese economy but hurting China-India relationship. Both India, China leaders still have hopes for an improved relationship and cooperation internationally where they share many common interests.

    It’s a dilemma for a lot of countries to face China now. On one hand they are afraid of China’s rise, especially military; on the other hand they need China. The best example is probably USA.

    China doesn’t want destroy US. She doesn’t have Soviet mindset. China just wants to grow powerful enough that no other country will threaten her. I believe India has such legitimate aspiration too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  17. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    .

    Son,

    The Chinese over confidence and their contempt of India is our biggest strength, We are a country with more than 300 Nukes, capable of wiping all the cities of China off the map for good for another 400 years. We have an active and technologically advanced, standing volunteer army; which is the LARGEST in the world. We have an airfroce with some serious firepower, A Navy which make sure that no OIL ever goes to China. And you still think we need allies.

    We need allies, so that we can break China's back without sweating a bit.
    Unless and until Tibet is freed ( I support through monetary means to Tibet Camp in Coorg) and China's support for Pakistan is withdrawn, We are going to clamp you down.

    READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY

     
  18. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    READ AGAIN, carefully.

     
  19. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    It seems you are over confident, not me, Sir.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  20. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Is it you Adu who has posted this or is your account compromised?
     
  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    China is using Pakistan for the simple reason that an Indo Pak war is controllable, and at the same time, a controlled war can do some economic damage to India and put her back a few years.

    China may, at times, crank up the ante every now and then, but that will be to establish that the border question is wide open and that China continues with her claims, notwithstanding the Indian stand. But it would be extraordinary if she goes to war with India since that would be disastrous, more so, if she 'loses face' as she did in their war against Vietnam. Vietnam was once a fraternal brother and so China could downplay the war results with Vietnam. However, with India, whom she 'taught a lesson', is the war is skewed, it will be a great humiliation to China as it would be construed that China failed to 'teach a lesson' to India and instead was taught a lesson that China should look before they leap!

    In so far as Pakistan is concerned, notwithstanding the pious platitudes of China, China actually does not really care if Pakistan loses (the wars so far has shown that wherein China stated lofty thoughts, but did not raise a finger to help Pakistan). Having said that, at the same time, China would not like Pakistan to lose 'wholesale' since that would mean a loss of an excellent leverage for China against India and a loss of the 'two front' challenge.

    The US has abandoned many a country once their strategic interest was completed. That is a reality and has to be cranked in, in any equation with the US.

    The fact that China is a serious challenge to the US will continue and become graver as China closes the military gap. Therefore, the US' strategic interest in 'containing' China will be in perpetuity since it cannot overwhelm China militarily. Consequently, the US will have to rely on allies and partners to keep China 'in check'. India is playing on this vulnerability of the US to its own advantage.

    Amongst all these political and military maze, economic will not be a victim. Trade will continue since it is beneficial to all and will help bolster the forces more through the earnings.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011

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