The World's Largest Potential Free Market‏

Discussion in 'Economy & Infrastructure' started by desicanuk, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. desicanuk

    desicanuk Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2011
    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    200
    Location:
    Canada
    Unleashing the Market in India
    By Laveesh Bhandari, Jeremy Carl, Bibek Debroy, Michelle Kaffenberger, Pravakar Sahoo, and Derek Scissors

    The movements of goods, services, capital, and labor between India and the U.S. are inadequate for two such large economies. There are also disputes about the movement of information, in the form of intellectual property. That is why India is not yet shining in The Heritage Foundation’s Index of Economic Freedom.

    The two national governments are principally responsible for this failure. A smaller role for them and a larger one for companies and individual states in both countries, based on the principle of free and open exchange, would transform the bilateral relationship and much of the rest of the world.

    Even if a sound bilateral investment treaty (BIT) is eventually achieved, progress should not wait. There is much to be gained for India and the U.S. in the interim. Moreover, it is far more likely that action by individuals, companies, and states entirely outside the BIT process will eventually generate a good BIT than that a good BIT will emerge from bilateral talks. These outside actions should start immediately.

    What else can the U.S. do to improve this relationship? Read more in this special report. Unleashing Markets in the India-U.S. Economic Relationship
     
  2.  
  3. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,283
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Exemption of import duties on each others products. One way to go about this. For the US, it will be a huge opening to compete against china in India and vice versa.
     
  4. DaTang

    DaTang Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    482
    Likes Received:
    118
    Just cannot wait to see this actually happen, being an agricultural society, India to open market to the US? Montsanto is dripping saliva now.
    What the Brits used life and fame to fight for, now a free gift delivered to the US, I bet none in the US would even give a damn about it, since it is too good to be true.
     
  5. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,173
    Likes Received:
    422
    Yes, Indian companies can't even compete with Chinese products in India market without all the local protections. What make you think they could win in a thirld country market?

    Regarding US's sale in India, no doubt they would take someone's market share. Just don't expect much from China's share since they are in different level of value chain.
     
  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,283
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Off course your country does not manipulate currency and also does not give huge export subsidies to remain competitive.

    There is anti dumping duty on Chinese products in EU and recently America started doing the same. In a recent trade fair I got a European who wanted to source products from me coz there is 74% duty on Chinese products whereas Indian goods had 5%. Stop talking non sense without knowing tr ground realities.
     
  7. cir

    cir Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    269
    manipulate currency?

    western propaganda is bible to you, right?

    in 2012 the yuan appreciated against the dollar while the rupee dropped like a stone vs the dollars.

    the result?

    China incrased its exports some 8%, India contracted to the tone of some 5%.

    conclusion: India can't compete even when its currency is selling for nothing!
     
  8. Tolaha

    Tolaha Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    1,404
    Location:
    Bengaluru
    Monsanto is in India from many many years!


    Chinese companies are never on a level playing field while competing with companies from any other country. Inspite of these, check Indian company performances in export markets, say for automobiles. In case of pharmaceuticals exports, while China mainly exports basic materials, India exports far more medicines. India is strong in IT but the rules in China are such that India isn't given a level playing field. China has a huge IT market, but even then, their IT exports are negligible.



    An elephant sheds 2 kgs in 2012. A deer puts on 10 kgs in the same year. Conclusion: Deer weighs heavier than elephant! :rolleyes:
     
    jalsa likes this.
  9. hello_10

    hello_10 Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,880
    Likes Received:
    670
    Location:
    unconfirmed
  10. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,173
    Likes Received:
    422
    First, we are talking about India market not China.
    Second, leading ahead in 2 or 3 industries doesn't mean anything. Otherwise, India won't complain about its huge trade defisit!

    Oh, please. Everyone knows what is the real strength of India IT industry: price, working hour and language. Unfortunately all these don't work any more in competetion with Chinese companies in Chinese market.

    Yes, Chinese don't export lots on IT because they are busy in working for Chinese industies.
     
  11. Tolaha

    Tolaha Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    1,404
    Location:
    Bengaluru
    Currency manipulation works the same in different countries.

    Those were a few examples given to drive home the point that in sectors where quality is of more importance than cost, India hasn't done badly. Unfortunately, the point doesn't seem to have been driven hard enough.



    Fine, go ahead and prove me wrong that Indian IT success has nothing to do with quality. Give me a few examples of Chinese IT companies scoring over Indian ones in neutral market to settle this out.

    While they have all the time in the world to make my calculator and my plastic mug! :dude: Come on, don't be so shy to admit what you really think! It's better than making a fool of yourself!
     
  12. satish007

    satish007 Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    202
    Location:
    China
    thanks for sharing no smoking, no idea if you live in Austria too long.
    My Company is hiring two SAP security adminstrators, good pay, we have searched and interviewed half year, there are many candidates, but not good enough, at last we have to turn to India(india has had sap development center for years,shanghai may have one this year) and we found them in Indian very fast, they will on board soon.

    one of my friends, chinese very good unix admin more than 15 years, has lost job for 6 month, do me a favor , give him some job chances.

    BTW, welcome Indian smart IT come to china, working visa 3 years.
    chinese indian bhai bhai.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
    amoy likes this.
  13. satish007

    satish007 Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    202
    Location:
    China
    BTW, I will brain wash the two indian guys, let them join this forum and share you guys how smart, kind chinese is , how strong and how good china is and of course include indian chinese bhai bhai.
     
    amoy likes this.
  14. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    1,547
    Guru, u know many more Indians than I do. Mods shall have named u Hindi Expert. That title of Chini Expert is an eyesore and undeserved for @Armand2REP
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    satish007 likes this.
  15. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,173
    Likes Received:
    422
    In 1980, 1 dollars = 7.86 Rupees
    In 1990, 1 dollars = 17.50 Rupees
    In 2000, 1 dollars = 44.94 Rupees
    Guess what is the rate of today: 54.50 ruppes!
    Meanwhile, since 2005, Chinese Yuan has appreciated 24-27% since 2005!
    It seems that india is more like a currency manipulation country than China!



    India hasn't done badly? Claimed by who? Indian manufacturer? Just like you guys claim Arjun are better than T-90 on "Quality"?
    And after so many years, indian customer still cannot realise the "superior quality" of indian products. You can keep making such a blind claim.


    Very simple, if IBM, Microsoft, HP and other european companies are winning big contracts in Chinese market while Indian IT companies failed to do so, you have to ask yourself: where is your quality?

    For your knowledge, Chinese IT companies get bigger market share than indian competitors in Japan, south korea and taiwan's outsourcing market! It doesn't mean Chinese products have better quality. It is just due to the same reason of india's success in western market: better language and cultural understanding as well as closer historic business relationship!


    While they have all the time in the world to make my calculator and my plastic mug! :dude: Come on, don't be so shy to admit what you really think! It's better than making a fool of yourself![/QUOTE]
     
  16. Tolaha

    Tolaha Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    1,404
    Location:
    Bengaluru
    :yawn: You really don't know what currency manipulation means?


    If a Chinese like you can be the barometer of Chinese quality, then yeah, why not?



    American companies themselves have claimed, more than Indian ones, about unfair practices in China.

    Google (or whatever you use instead) for "India China software exports". It seems India has cultural affinity with a lot of countries spread out in different parts of the world! :rolleyes:
     
  17. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,173
    Likes Received:
    422
    Maybe you can tell me what trade advantage Chinese gained from upward RMB when india kept depreciating its own currency.

    We are talking about india here, not US, right? Don't you think a country like India which kept depreciating its currency since 1980 accusing China's currency problem is nothing but rediculous?


    At least, not like someone who blindly claim that Indian quality where no one buys indian products!


    You do realise that US and India are 2 different countries. Is American supervising India's trade with China?.

    I don't need to google. You ask an example, I give you an example. Please tell me why India's "super quality" doesn't work over those countries?
     
  18. Tolaha

    Tolaha Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    1,404
    Location:
    Bengaluru
    As it is so difficult for you to understand, let me keep it simple. What is the name of the currency that has slavishly fixed its exchange rate with that of another country? Is that the Rupee?

    :dude: You are the one who brought in IBM, Microsoft etc. And you are now asking me not to respond to your post. What's with some Chinese that they talk about Americans all the time but when somebody responds, reminds them that America is a separate country! How pathetic can you get?

    Indian IT companies presence in countries in which it has no cultural affinity is THE proof that Indian IT companies aren't of the quality that you have been claiming! What exactly do you want me to spoon feed you with?
     
  19. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,173
    Likes Received:
    422
    As it is so difficult for you to understand, let me keep it simple: China doesn't manipulate its exchange rate with India rupee because Rupee's value has been depreciating since 1980.

    For example: In 1990, 1 RMB=3.654678 Rupee
    In 1995, 1 RMB=3.873787 Rupee
    In 2000, 1 RMB=5.427813 Rupee
    In 2005, 1 RMB=5.377865 Rupee
    In 2010, 1 RMB=6.744266 Rupee
    In 2012, 1 RMB=8.470961 Rupee

    Source: Yearly Average Exchange Rates - Oz Forex Foreign Exchange

    Generally, with economic booming, the country's currency should appreciate. However, it is different for india. India's currency has been depreciating against almost every major currency and RMB. So, US may be reasonable to blame China for currency manipulating while India can't .



    Dude, I was saying that these big US IT companies can make hugh profit in China why Indian IT companies can't. The point is there is no unfair trading in IT sector regarding Indians unless you can prove that China set up some rules specifically targeting Indian IT companies.
    Unfairness accusation between US and China in IT industry are involving: intellegence protection, pirate software. All these are not the major problems that Indian IT companies face in China.



    Then tell me why Indian IT companies don't enjoy the dominance in east asia market?
     
  20. Tolaha

    Tolaha Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    1,404
    Location:
    Bengaluru
    Your claim was China doesn't manipulate its currency. The exchange rate of Indian rupee has nothing to do with "fixing". China's rate is fixed to a currency that that fixing is referred to as "manipulation".


    I said: Indian IT companies complain in China of unfair practices
    You said: American IT companies in China, no issues!
    I said: They too have complained of unfair practices.
    You said: Is America your boss?
    I said: Never me brought America, amigo!
    Now you say: Those unfair rules are targeted against everyone, not just Indians.

    So, what's your point?



    What are the markets that you claim India has dominance in?
     
  21. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,173
    Likes Received:
    422
    We are talking about Sino-India trade here, so we need to focus on the exchange rate between RMB and Rupee. The fact is Rupee has been depreciating even before anyone accusing China's currency manipulation.

    The americans can argue "currency manipulation" because China did fixed its currency with dollars. India, however, can't claim itself a victim since its exchange rate perform even worse: it is jumping down no matter versus RMB or US dollars. Theoretically, india should benefit from its depreciating currency from 1990.

    For example: an China product may worth 100 RMB in 2000, then its price in India could be around 500Rupee. With Rupee's depreciation, however, its price could be as high as 800Rupees in 2010 if we don't put in any other factors.


    My point is that Indian IT companies' strengths are not strength in Chinese market any more. It is not Chinese specifically block Indian companies. It is just indian companies don't change their working style to fit in Chinese market.

    Let's take the example of India company's work for Bank of China, which is the biggiest IT outsourceing service contract for Indian IT company in China so far. One of my classmate happened to work in the project. There is several problems he listed:

    1. Terrible language: very few indian managers can speak Chinese while it is difficult for Chinese managers to understand indian's english.
    2. Bad communication: indians don't know who they should talk to and how they should talk.
    3. Zero understanding of Chinese working code: flexibility, schedule and no excuse.
    4. No knowledge of features of Chinese market.

    In one word: they failed because they believe their success in western market should guarantee their success in Chinese market.








    What are the markets that you claim India has dominance in?[/QUOTE]
     

Share This Page