The Tyrant Diaries

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by Raj30, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. Raj30

    Raj30 Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Tyrant Diaries | Francois Gautier
    From the memoirs of a French adventurer who served at Tipu’s court

    In December 8, 1988, an old trunk was discovered in the attic of the house of Elaine de la Taille Tretinville, who died at 91 in her 14th arrondissement flat in Paris. She was a descendant of the family of Les Ripaud Montaudeverts. Among the contents was a manuscript in the hand of the most famous of the Montaudeverts—Francois Fidele Ripaud de Montaudevert. It starts with these words (in old French): “I, Francois Ripaud, am old today, but I want to tell you the true story of Tipu Sultan.”

    Born in Saffre, northwestern France, in a middle-class family, Ripaud enrolled as a sailor, aged 11, on the Le Palmier. After many adventures, he settled in Mauritius, where he married and had two children. In 1797, hearing of Le Grand Tipu Sultan, he sailed from Mauritius (then called Ile de France) to Mangalore and sought a meeting with the sultan, promising “to raise a large force in Mau-ritius and put it at Tipu’s disposal”. Tipu, who had an early connection with the French, having been instructed in warfare by French officers in the employ of his father, jumped at the idea and gave Ripaud letters of credential. On August 19, 1798, Ripaud came back to Mauritius and made a proclamation seeking volunteers for an “expedition to travel to Mysore to assist Tipu in his resistance to British encroachment in south India”. It must be noted that, two months earlier, Napoleon had invaded Egypt and dreamt of establishing a junction with India against the British, so the governor of Mauritius received instructions to collaborate and Ripaud was able to sail to Mangalore with a shipload of French soldiers who were welcomed there like heroes.

    Life at Tipu’s court was a dream for our hardy adventurer, but he began to have some misgivings. In his diary entry of January 14, 1799, he writes: “I’m disturbed by Tipu Sultan’s treatment of these most gentle souls, the Hindus. During the siege of Mangalore, Tipu’s soldiers daily exposed the heads of many innocent Brahmins within sight from the fort for the Zamorin and his Hindu followers to see.” Even so, he cast his doubts aside and put up for Tipu’s benefit a dem-onstration of the egalitarian political ideas of France: in 1799, a French paper entitled ‘Proceedings of a Jacobin Club formed at Seringapatnam by the French Soldiers in the Corps Commanded by Francois Ripaud’ was found in Tipu’s palace. It listed 59 Frenchmen in the pay of “citizen Tipu” and described a “primary assembly” of May 5, 1797, to elect a president (Ripaud) and other office-bearers. The ‘Rights of Man’ were proclaimed and the sultan formally received a small delegation from the club.

    After this interval, we find another diary entry in which Ripaud is appalled at what he witnessed in Calicut (Kozhikode): “Most of the Hindu men and women were hanged...first mothers were hanged with their children tied to their necks. That barbarian Tipu Sultan tied the naked Christians and Hindus to the legs of elephants and made the elephants move around till the bodies of the helpless victims were torn to pieces. Temples and churches were ordered to be burned down, desecrated and des-troyed. Christian and Hindu women were forced to marry Mohammedans, and similarly, their men (after conversion to Islam) were forced to marry Moha-mm-edan women. Christians who refused to be honoured with Islam were ordered to be killed by hanging immediately.” These events were corroborated by Father Bartholomew, a famous Portu-guese traveller, in his memoir, Voyage to East Indies.

    Another diary entry of Ripaud says: “To show his ardent devotion and steadfast faith in the Mohammedan religion, Tipu Sultan found Kozhikode to be the most suitable place. Kozhikode was then a centre of Brahmins and had over 7,000 Brahmin families living there. Over 2,000 Brahmin families perished as a result of Tipu Sultan’s Islamic cruelties. He did not spare even women and children.”

    A disgusted Ripaud left Seringapatnam and went back to France, where he obtained captainship of a fine fighting ship, the Shapho. On February 23, 1814, fighting an English frigate, Ripaud had his arm ripped off by a cannon ball. He died the same evening. Even the British, his arch enemies, gave a 21-cannon salute to this brave adventurer, once Tipu Sultan’s ‘Great White Hope’.

    (The writer is editor-in-chief of La Revue de l’Inde. This piece is based on two books: Jean Feildel’s A la Mer, en Guerre: Vie du Corsaire Ripaud de Montaudevert and Louis Brunet’s Ripaud de Montaudevert: Scenes de la Revolution Francaise a L’ile Bourbon.)
     
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  3. dhananjay1

    dhananjay1 Regular Member

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    Any one who gets his history from outside of the fictional TV serial from Doordarshan knows Tipu for what he was, a Jihadi who killed and converted thousands of Hindus and was proud of it. They actually named the serial 'sword of Tipu Sultan'. The sword had the inscription about how he loved to kill 'unbelievers'. Even Taliban can't outdo Doordarshan if they tried to portray Tipu as a hero. And millions of Hindus know him only from that serial.
     
  4. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  5. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Something is wrong here.

    Siege of Mangalore was conducted in 1783, towards the end of the Second Anglo-Mysore War.

    Francois Ripaud visited Mangalore in 1797, and wrote his diary entry on 14 January, 1799, as mentioned in the article.

    How did Ripaud "witness" events that took place 14 years before he even arrived in Mangalore?

    Oh wait, this article was written by Francois Gautier. :facepalm:
     
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  6. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    You do know that Iyengars in Mysore to this day do not celebrate Diwali due to Tipu's massacres. He may have been a good ruler to his subjects but he was a jihadi when it came to conquering kafir lands. All the evidence indicates this.
     
  7. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Invasion of Kerala was not same as Anglo-Mysore war :yawn:
     
  8. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Yes, every Muslim is a jihadi when it comes to conquering kafir lands. Marathas are called "Hindu nationalists" when they looted Hindu temples and monasteries and massacred local populations in South India, while Tipu Sultan is called a barbarian Muslim fanatic when numerous land grants to temples where granted by him. He even built the first church in Mysore at the insistence of the French, which Francois Ripaud apparently ignores.

    Tipu Sultan was a far greater ruler than the Nizam of Hyderabad, the Maratha Peshwa, or any other contemporary Indian leader. He was the only one who can be said to have a vision for the future, and was the only one who actively took measures to reform his state. He modernized not only the Mysorean army to make it the most organized and technologically advanced in Asia, capable of going toe-to-toe with even the British corporate mafia, but also the government structures, commerce, industry, and agriculture of Mysore. He curbed the power of the zamindars and oppressive feudal lords and centralized the state authority, which almost all other Indian states failed to do. Even the British travelers themselves who visited Mysore during his reign remark how it was the most prosperous, well-run, and efficient state in India.


    Mysorean rule over Kerala ended in 1792 with the Treaty of Seringapatam. Mangalore is not in Kerala, and the siege of that city happened as part of the Second Anglo-Mysore War, which concluded in 1784. Francois Ripaud was not a "witness" to any of the events that he describes, because they occurred years before he even set foot in the Kingdom of Mysore. Another case of shabby scholarship. :yawn:
     
  9. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    The Peshwas were also barbarians. They learned from the best: the jihadi armies. Also maybe Ripaud heard these tales from local inhabitants. Almost every European account mentions Tipu's barbarism. It's highly unlikely all of them were fabricating facts in order to vilify Tipu.
    Also Tipu donated to temples and such during the latter part of his rule when he wanted to insure the population's loyalty in the face of British invasion. Tipu is remembered as a barbarian by people in North Kerala, I used to go there often (Kasargod district) due to an ashram my family frequented and the name Tipu Sultan sends shivers down people's spines (mainly Brahmins) even to this day. Face it, there is no denying he was a conquering religiously inspired barbarian when it came to conquering Kerala.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  10. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Here are some European accounts that don't get much attention from people like Francois Gautier:
    -- Edward Moor, 1794
    Link: http://books.google.com/books?id=tE...rd Moor Tippoo guardian to his people&f=false

    -- Alexander Dirom, 1795
    Link: http://books.google.com/books?id=xx...r Dirom "the principles which Tippoo"&f=false

    -- Thomas Munro, 1790
    Link:http://books.google.com/books?id=Ap...omas Munro "in which all pretensions"&f=false

    For Britishers to write so glowingly about the governance of foreign states was exceedingly rare, for they prided themselves on having the most "civilized government" known to man. The fact that Tipu and the Kingdom of Mysore was described in such terms is quite astonishing, and does much to discredit the notion of Tipu of being a barbarian fanatic.

    Baseless speculation. Did Aurangzeb start donating to temples and tolerating Hindus in the latter part of his reign, when his empire was falling apart from rebellions?

    Tipu's policy of religious tolerance was there from the very beginning of his reign, and was a continuation of the policies of his predecessor Hyder Ali. It was the state policy of Mysore to not discriminate based on religion or even class or caste, and this is evidenced by the numerous Hindus in important civil and military positions as well as those of humble birth.

    :lol:

    Visit Mysore sometime. He is regarded as a hero there, and is the pride of the city.
     
  11. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Ask any non-Muslim Mallu about Tipu's padayottam and see the reply you get. As I have stated before I concede Tipu was a good ruler to this subjects most of the time, however other parts of his legacy should also be considered and that includes his merciless invasion of Kerala which bore the characteristics of a true jihad through and through with its share of massacres, forced conversions, and temple destruction, even the famous Mughal apologist Dalrymple concedes to this fact.

    Also regarding Mysore, Tipu massacred over 700 Iyengars during Diwali of 1790. He was punishing them for making a pact with the British governor general of Madras.
     
  12. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    It should be noted that the Mysorean forces crushed revolts by Mappilas (Muslims) in Kerala as well as those by Hindus, the most notable Mappila rebel being Manjeri Hassan. The Mysorean invasion of Kerala was indeed brutal because wars in the 18th century tended to be brutal, and the brutality was not exclusive to the Hindus. Tipu insisted that all of his subjects pay taxes equally, regardless of religion, and this roused the Mappilas to revolt.

    In the long run, despite the brutality of war, I am sure that Kerala would have been better off under the Mysorean government than under the oppressive feudal social structure of the Nairs. In the short duration of Mysorean rule, there was already the beginning of wealth and land redistribution and improved governance, as the layer of feudal lords and chieftains in between the state and peasantry were eliminated. South India at that time needed an organized, centralized government to effectively utilize its resources and resist the British, as the feudal system proved useless in doing either, and Mysore was the only state that possessed such a government.

    In that particular instance, I see nothing wrong with what Tipu did. Treason and betrayal of one's motherland should be punishable by death.
     
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  13. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Saying this statement is denying the very Islamic nature of his invasions where he specifically destroyed infidel temples and converted them by the sword. His invasion of Travancore was not due to rebellion as Travancore was not under his realm. And was the American Revolution as brutal? You are just whitewashing Islamic history which a whole generation of "secular" historians are apt at doing in the interests of "communal harmony".

    Okay..as in resisting British rule is the sole criteria for judging a state. Get real. Also lets say his invasion of Kerala was successful and he conquered all of it after a bloody war. Do you really think that a war ravaged territory is beneficial?

    After making such a statement, I doubt there is much humanity in you and I am thoroughly disgusted by it. And what "motherland"?! There was no "India" then, there was no concept of a nation-state then either.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
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  14. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    The secular Tipu in his own words :yawn:

     
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  15. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    The American Revolution is not a good comparison because of the low population density of the American colonies and the relatively small number of people actually involved in the conflict; moreover, the British were preoccupied with events in India at the time, and India was far more valuable than America. A better comparison that is much closer to home would be Nader Shah's invasion of India in 1738-39. This conflict was initiated by a Sunni Muslim, and the victims were also Sunni Muslims (Mughals). Tens of thousands of people were reported to be killed in Delhi alone, including many Muslims, and the level of brutality was equal if not far greater than that seen in the Mysorean invasion of Kerala. Was this also a "jihad"? What were Muslims doing killing other Muslims to pursue their own self-interests, rather than allocating all of their collective energy to subjugating the infidels? It's almost as if wars are driven by factors other than religion!


    The first and foremost raison d'être of the state is to protect its subjects from external threats and foreign aggression. A state that cannot protect its subjects from foreign domination, either through diplomacy or through a military of its own, is a failure.

    No territory remains war-ravaged indefinitely. Eventually Kerala would be back to normal, and in the case of a total Mysorean victory, there is no reason to believe that its inhabitants would not eventually enjoy the same prosperity and good governance enjoyed by the Hindus of Mysore. Note that I am talking about the average peasants of Kerala, and not the feudal elites.


    Please, spare me the childish theatrics. Treason was punishable by death throughout the world during Tipu's time, and indeed it would be foolish for a ruler to let people openly conspire with this enemies against the state. If a group of Indians conspired to make a pact with Pakistan (for example) to the detriment of the Indian state, I would recommend the death penalty for each of them, or life imprisonment at the very least.

    There was no Indian "nation-state" in the late 18th century, but the concept of treason does not require a nation-state. It simply requires any sovereign state.
     
  16. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    More whitewashing of Islamic rule by "secular" historians. Give me a break. The British were civilized enough not to massacre whole populations and you attribute it to low population density. The Dharmic kings of ancient India more or less also abstained from massacres. The only way to see history is through the moral prism of the present day. The depths you go to justify Islamic brutality by condoning the murder of innocent men, women, and children is again disturbing and you sir are a morally bankrupt individual.

    Again who are you to judge that British rule was worse than Tipu's rule? Due to British rule, Western medicine and sanitation practices were introduced and India's population increased dramatically.

    Regarding the Iyengars, why the hell would people who were subjected to humiliation and heavy taxes with Persian imposed upon them see the bastard Tipu as "one of their own". Tipu hated Hindus so much he renamed cities like Mangalore and gave them Islamic names. And the community leaders of the Iyengars made a pact with the British not the whole damn community. I guess the a misanthrope like you is probably glad a few more evil Brahmins are killed by your heroes. Makes me sick. Anyways this is my last response to you in this thread as you simply arrogantly brush aside the monumental evidence of Tipu's depravity. A case of Stockholm syndrome if there ever was one.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  17. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    More accounts of Tipu's secularism. :hail::hail::hail:

    " Muslim rule should not attract any criticism. Mention of destruction of temples by Muslim invaders and rulers should not be mentioned.” - Circular, Boards of Secondary Education, India.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  18. tramp

    tramp Senior Member Senior Member

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    The British and the French did massacre the indigenous people on arriving in the New World. And the American Revolution was a war between White people. You can imagine what that could be like.
    There is one serious danger in saying the "only way to see history is through the moral prism of the present day". That is admitting that perspectives could change. Tomorrow the result of the evaluation could be different, just as the moral peg of the events when they happened could have been different.
    Ideally we should approach history without getting emotionally involved, unless there is an interest in furthering some ideology or the other.... which is true for both the Left and the Right. Then it is propaganda.
     
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  19. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Exactly, and Tipu's invasion was between the pious and the infidels. Even the racist British were appalled by his religiously inspired cruelty. Nadir Shah may be an exception but that is irrelevant to the topic discussed.
    The kind of punishment this sick individual supports is collective punishment. It is no different from World War Two where Nazi soldiers burned whole Belarusian villages along with its inhabitants if they were known to support the partisans. Anyways I'm done with this thread and I hope I get banned from this forum as I have better things to do than interact with self-hating urchins.

    And perspectives might change but morality does not.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
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  20. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Britishers were massacring whole populations as recently as the 1950s in Kenya :yawn:

    An apologist for the caste system and Hinduism calling someone else "morally bankrupt" is hilarious beyond description. I could care less about most Muslim rulers or Muslim rule in general, but Tipu Sultan in particular was a progressive leader of considerable foresight and there is substantial evidence behind that, not the least the accounts of Tipu's own enemies (the British travelers, not the Iyengars).

    Do some basic research on the mass famines and socioeconomic subjugation of the Indian peasantry during British rule. Such things did not happen under the Mysorean government, as far as we know.

    Since Mysore was a state bent on modernization, I am sure they would have adopted Western medicine and sanitation in the 19th century, had they survived the war.

    Doesn't matter if they saw Tipu as "one of their own" or not. Brahmins did not see even their own co-religionists as one of their own. What matters is that Tipu was their sovereign, and they took actions against him and the Mysore government. That is called treason.

    Speak for yourself. I nor any of my ancestors were victims of Tipu's supposed "atrocities". If anything, I am more related to the Hindu soldiers and officials who served under Tipu's army and government. I don't regard Mysore as any less "Indian" than Travancore or Malabar.
     
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  21. MAYURA

    MAYURA New Member

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    oh wait, this post is of civafanatic who can justify killing of thousands of women and children but weeps over shudra disabilities.
     

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