The Tragedy that is Poverty in Pakistan

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Rage, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,409
    Likes Received:
    970
    Squandered decade: Poverty reduction spending proves useless

    January 28, 2011


    ISLAMABAD: Some $1.2 billion dollars spent by the Pakistan Poverty Alleviation Fund (PPAF) in the past ten years has gone to waste as poverty levels in Pakistan kept increasing instead of decreasing during that period.

    Members of the Cabinet’s Economic Coordination Committee reached this conclusion in their January 13 meeting.

    The meeting, which was presided by Finance Minister Dr Abdul Hafeez Shaikh, scrutinised the PPAF’s performance and its expenditure; the fund’s authorities gave a presentation to over two dozen ministers.

    According to official documents available with The Express Tribune, the PPAF was originally established by Dr Hafeez Pasha, Dr Shahid Javed Burki, Mueen Afzal from the finance division, member planning Muttawakal Qazi, former secretary of the planning division Ashraf Hayat, economic affairs division joint secretaries Javid Hassan and Shahab Anwar Khawaja, and a former planning and development division secretary. Funds from the Pakistani government were transferred to this newly-established organisation.

    Following the presentation, the documents say, all ministers believed that a huge amount had been wasted in the name of poverty reduction efforts.

    They claimed they could not see any visible impact on the lives of the poor over the period the PPAF had been functioning.

    Earlier, a presentation was given to ECC members in which they were told that the PPAF became operational in 2000 and had its own independent board of directors. The government of Pakistan has been contributing funds and also arranged for loans from other agencies, which would be repaid by the Government of Pakistan.

    The ECC was told that the PPAF covered 95 per cent of Pakistan, that is 127 districts. It has 87 partners, works with 242,000 community-based organisations and covers up to 80,000 villages and settlements. The output for micro loans is 2,800,000 infrastructure loans, including 22,800 H&E projects and 120,000 housing units. It has also trained 447,000 individuals.

    After the presentation, government ministers criticised the PPAF and its authorities for what they termed was its failure in achieving its goals despite spending billions of dollar.

    The ministers observed that the PPAF had no comprehensive strategy or plan for poverty reduction in Pakistan. They said that there was no integrated or focused approach and mechanism to address the issue.

    The ministers said that the programme should be launched with focused and targeted objectives.

    Some participants said that duplication of activities among different organisations such as the National Rural Support Programme (NRSP), the PPAF and the public sector was another sore spot.

    Participants also observed that there was no linkage between PPAF and public representatives and that public representatives did not know where the PPAF was getting money from and where and how it was being spent.

    Most representatives did not have the programme in their constituencies, despite the fact that poverty exists everywhere in Pakistan.


    http://tribune.com.pk/story/110355/squandered-decade-poverty-reduction-spending-proves-useless/


    ---


    Pakistan: Statistics reveal stunning increase in poverty

    World Bank’s Task Force on Food Security says 40pc Pakistanis living below poverty line


    Tuesday, February 16, 2010
    By Ikram Hoti
    The NEWS

    ISLAMABAD: Statistics reveal stunning increase in poverty in Pakistan impacted by the prices of energy and food in the past three years.

    These happen to be the worst years as far as the poverty situation in the country is concerned, data reveals.

    As many as 40% of the country's population are living below the Poverty line, data confirms.

    The Federal Bureau of Statistics data updated for the Centre for Poverty Reduction and Social Policy Development (CPRSPD), Planning and Development Division, shared with The News indicates an upswing in the headcount poverty ratio for 2008-09.

    The steep increase in the prices of petroleum products, electricity and natural gas as well as food items (especially flour, sugar, meat and oil) began in 2007, while the situation worsened in 2008 with global increase in POL and commodity prices.

    The financial meltdown followed as industry could not cope with the rising energy prices triggered sharp slowdown in growth and high inflation.

    This situation impacted Pakistan’s economy generally and the poor households particularly, as the report indicates.

    The government is yet to make this report public after its preparation is formalized and the relevant officials in high places approve its launch.

    The News obtained salient figures from this report revealing that the increase in food and energy prices since late 2007 compelled the government to launch a household income and expenditure survey for assessment of poverty increase and vulnerability of the countryside and city-slum majority.

    Survey to make such assessment got delayed for inexplicable reasons but the reports based on a 5-year old assessment got regularly updated for the federal cabinet’s appraisal.

    The updated Planning Commission’s Interim Report based on 2004-05 poverty head count number of 23.9 percent put the increase in poverty at around 6 percent for the year 2008-09. The newly updated figures say this ratio must go as high as 29.9 percent.

    The World Bank’s Task Force on Food Security had put the ratio at 29.2 percent in 2004-05, 33.8 percent in 2007-08 and 36.1 percent in 2008-09. Such estimates placed 62 million people of the country Below the Poverty Line (BPL) in 2008-09.

    The new assessments say at least 20 million people might have joined the previous headcount on BPL population.

    The poverty increase situation thus stood as follows: 22.3 percent of the population in 2005-06 to between 30-35 percent in 2008-09; now this population is beyond 40 percent.

    The data is explained in a manner that the increase in BPL population in the rural areas is more tragic as people lost their small holdings to inflation and overall expenditure per family unit increased by more than 20 percent in the past 3 years.

    Though the increase of inflation-hit population in the urban areas remained more pronounced, the net impact was far lower than in the rural areas.

    More than 50 percent of the urban workforce underwent decrease in actual wages viz a viz inflation.

    The high food prices undermined the government efforts for poverty reduction as food price hike severely eroded poor households’ purchasing power.

    This situation indicates a serious risk of massive school dropouts at primary levels while fresh enrolments would also be on the decline.

    The poorest households are compelled to spend more than 78 percent of incomes on food and other most essential expenditure, while health and education are tragically compromised areas.


    http://economyofpakistan.blogspot.com/2010/02/statistics-reveal-stunning-increase-in.html
     
  2.  
  3. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    6,359
    Likes Received:
    3,661
    Location:
    New Delhi
    The sad story of Pakistan is that for major part of their existence the Military has been in power and they have systematically undermined the civilian administration. No wonder that despite all the money sanctioned there is no delivery mechanism available to utilise the funds effectively. The end result is for all to see.
     
  4. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Messages:
    20,986
    Likes Received:
    11,813
    Location:
    Akhand Bharat

    True. pakisstan is itself a Tragedy on this world
     
  5. Vikramaditya

    Vikramaditya Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    76
    Location:
    Bangalore, India, India
    What Pakistan has poverty??????
     
  6. RebateKing

    RebateKing Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    AFAIK, many ppl in Pakistan can speak fluent English, why don't they just get into call center biz?
     
  7. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,768
    Likes Received:
    965
    Pakistan's population is growing so fast ( at nearly 3 percent per year )that it outstrips any attempt to reduce poverty.
     
  8. ganesh177

    ganesh177 Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    295
    Location:
    Pune, Incredible India
    AFAIK english is very poor in that part of the world.
    I know that from pakistanis on forums and their cricketers interviewing on tv.
    Few people who can talk fluently cannot fuel the birth of such a support industry.
     
  9. RebateKing

    RebateKing Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    really? I find that hard to believe given Pakistan was also a British colony not so long ago. Plus, isn't English one of the two official languages in Pakistan?
     
  10. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,409
    Likes Received:
    970
    English is well-spoken among the small, educated, urban coterie, that graduates from A-Level schools in cities like Karachi or Islamabad. But this coterie is dwindling so fast that it will soon find themselves outpaced and outplaced by the vast majority of semi-literate or illiterate rural Pakistanis, among whom English is either non-existent or ill-spoken. These people don't speak English well, more than the occasional odd word or adv jingle, No Pakistani can deny that. Meanwhile, While Indians are returning to their homeland in record numbers, Middle-class Pakistanis are swamping the shores of every major city in Europe or North-America, from Spain to Belgium to Canada. What remains are the poorly-educated, native language speaking Pakistanis, who's only real viable occupation is agriculture, or industry <if they had a policy of one>.


    Unlike in India, where almost everyone in the cities speaks some measure of English or the other, often broken but understandable, in Pakistan, pure Urdu is the norm. In India, it is the result of substituting English words for every day items, made popular by a mainstream media and film culture; and a people graduating from the vast numbers of English-medium schools, that often speak best only English and their vernacular language. Ask anyone, outside of the shuddh Hindi speaking cow-belt <U.P and Bihar> what the Hindi word is for a daily item, like a calculator or a pen, and they probably wouldn't be able to tell you. We use more English words than Hindi, in our daily conversation, than most. And this is reflected everywhere, from our advertising billboards to our conversation. In Pakistan, where the divide between languages is more, it is only those who have received a formal education in the language, that can speak it. This so called middle-class in fact fleeing to foreign countries. And that is something, no Pakistani can argue with.
     
  11. warriorextreme

    warriorextreme Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,369
    Likes Received:
    536
    Location:
    Mumbai
    very few can speak English as per requirement of call center industry(in India too condition is same but our population is more)..also such industry requires a stable and peaceful society which is only a dream for Pakistan.
     
  12. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,120
    Likes Received:
    1,541
    Location:
    Bangalore, India
    Mate! It's been 63 years!:)
     
  13. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,283
    Location:
    BANGalore
    What's the topic of the thread? I am confused.
     
  14. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,434
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    Location:
    Land of the GODS - "Dev Bhomi".
  15. RebateKing

    RebateKing Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for all the informative replies. I can totally understand un/under-educated people in rural areas couldn't speak much English, but how about major cities?
    I would guess it wouldn't be hard to find people with good English proficiency in the few metros. I still think call center biz is one area that requires relatively little intellectual and financial capital, and infrastructure investment, it seems well suited for Pakistan. Perhaps, one day when Indian moves away from service biz to indigenous product development, Indian call center operators will set up shops in Pakistan. :)
     
  16. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    518
    Location:
    California
    I really don't think that Indians should make fun of Pakistan in this area. India hasn't done a stellar job of eradicating hardcore grinding poverty either. The problem with a forum like this is that most middle class Indians on this forum are insulated from the grinding poverty in rural India.

    There is only one country that has done a commendable job or reducing severe poverty and that is China. There are millions still living in mud-huts all over India. Even in Kerala I still see it. And Kerala is probably 10 times better than other parts of the country.

    People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
     
  17. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,409
    Likes Received:
    970
    You are dead wrong.

    India has lifted 59.7 million people out or urban poverty since the beginning of this decade, as per this UN report:

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Glob...-in-lifting-people-out-of-urban-slums-UN-says
    http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/indiachina-lift-millions-outslums-un/88943/on

    Kerala is one of the worst performing states in India. It has been made so backward and deindustrialized, by a Commie government that has ironically focussed on all the bare essentials for growth, that it is now reflective of the bottom rung states in India.

    The trouble with people like you is that you look at one state, ironically one of the most deprived states of India, and generalize it to all states. A further trouble is that you compare China today with India today, when you should actually be comparing India today with a China of 13 years ago, which is approx. the age gap between India's and China's liberalization processes. 13 years ago, China did not have a $1.5 trillion economy (it's economy was $957 bln.), had teeming urban poverty and stark labour unrest. It's growth took off after 2001, after a period of retrospective revaluations (which India has not gone through, significant considering India's retail, consumption economy is largely a 'black economy') and fiscal and tax-restructuring measures. The India today will not be the India of 13 years down the line, not of 5 years down the line, not of 3 yrs. Labor unrest has already shrunk in India, by a massive 82% of (labour hours lost) last year. But it is a fair bet to say, that the Pakistan of today will be the Pakistan of 5 yrs. down the road. That's the difference.
     
  18. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    518
    Location:
    California
    Blah...Blah...Blah. Moving 5% of your population out of poverty in one decade means it will be 2050 before 60-70% of the population are middle-class - maybe be a start, but it is no stellar achievement.

    You can make up all the excuses you want about India starting later than China and the economy opening up in last 20 years, and all that.
    But the fact of the matter remains that India has been independent for more than 60 years.

    All I said was that Indians should not laugh at poverty in Pakistan when probably half the Indian people are still surviving on less than 2 bucks a day. It just makes us look stupid !!


    BTW: Kerala may completely deindustrialized and one of the worst performing states in India from the standpoint of industrial production.
    Agreed, no debate there. But you dont know Kerala as well as I do. Kerala's entire economy is based on foreign remittances - and that is how people in Kerala live better than most states in India. Almost every single family has someone or multiple people working abroad and sending home money, mine included. Nobody is sitting on their asses, and waiting for the CPI/M or Congress babus at state government to change their fortunes.
     
  19. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Are we in the field of comparative poverty?


    Check PPP.

    Can't compare China with India. A totalitarian country with a democracy.

    It is like comparing the efficiency of the Army with a civil public sector organisation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  20. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    13,206
    Likes Received:
    6,638
    Location:
    Telangana/India/Bharat
    India is a rubber like elastic economy, one way India is going to the top on Global stage and on the other its going down on Poverty, we cant change that, Its the people's mindset or political's mindset.
    "Rome was not built in a day..." so it takes decades of time to change India and their mindsets, But to change political people as long as people are their to take money for vote they cant be changed.......
    most of the population in Urban still takes money for voting.....
     
  21. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,541
    Likes Received:
    1,260
    Location:
    Bangalore
    What is the purpose of bringing India's poverty in to a thread where we are supposed to discuss Pakistan's poverty? Plain trolling........ any one.
     

Share This Page