The Su-35 flies to China

[Daredevil]

10k posts on a defence forum and you still dont know that J-10 and Su-35 are two different classes.

That is like saying buying Su-30 MKI must means LCA is crap. May I suggest less posts and more readings?

I know the difference unlike you 50centers. And that is why I mentioned J-10 and J-11 in general. So, you are accepting the failure of your J-11, J-20 and other J-Shitty fighters, otherwise why you need Su-35?.

 

[Daredevil]

Here are some denials by Chinese posters on Su-35 purchase a while ago on this very forum

The Russians are Indulging in wishful thinking again。

Our yearly Russian says China wants to buy their jets topic?

Some people never learn.

Russians never waste any opportunity to promote their planes, too late.

Come on, even the jokers at militaryphotos dont believe this russki nonsense any more.

This joke has even earn Chinese official attention, the Chinese DoD even put an official announcement to deny this russian joke, few joke get such degree of honors.

Doesn't matter where the news came from because there is no sign that PLAAF is interested in Su35. I am not say SU35 is not a good plane, it is just not good enough, hence not worth buying.

Such fake news resurfaces again and again only because Russians attempt to get some attention for this plane, so that they can find some potential buyers. Whether China is negotiating or not doesn't matter, as long as China is mentioned, it is good for promotion.


At the end of day, Russians are gonna say the negotiation is halted because they fear that Chinese will infringe upon their IP right.

Are you dumb or something, this is the same russiki jokers bullishiting, the only difference is this time the russiki joker bullshiting at zhuhai

No need to worry. China is not interested.

 

[Armand2REP]

Here are some denials by Chinese posters on Su-35 purchase a while ago on this very forum

50c just can't comprehend their industry isn't up to par. This purchase confirms everything I have been saying for years. :thumb:

 

[ice berg]

I know the difference unlike you 50centers. And that is why I mentioned J-10 and J-11 in general. So, you are accepting the failure of your J-11, J-20 and other J-Shitty fighters, otherwise why you need Su-35?.

LOL, I love how you try to backtrack now on your earlier comment. Epic fail.

J-10 is a F-16 class fighter. Su-35 is a heavy fighter. No need to thank me for teaching you basics.

 

[Daredevil]

LOL, I love how you try to backtrack now on your earlier comment. Epic fail.

J-10 is a F-16 class fighter. Su-35 is a heavy fighter. No need to thank me for teaching you basics.

Cry me a river. Yawn.

Your shirking of my comment on J-11, J-20 and other J-shitty fighters is quite amusing and telling of your capabilities of making fighters

 

[nimo_cn]

Here are some denials by Chinese posters on Su-35 purchase a while ago on this very forum

What are the differences between this thread and the earlier one? Both are just Russian talkings.

Prove it us that the Su-35 is a done deal, then fire your ammunition.

The rumors about Chinese purchasing Su-35 go back to as early as 2008. Given the efficiency of military hardware procurement in China, PLAAF would have signed the deal long time ago if China was desperate for Su-35.

 

[Armand2REP]

What are the differences between this thread and the earlier one? Both are just Russian talkings.

Prove it us that the Su-35 is a done deal, then fire your ammunition.

The rumors about Chinese purchasing Su-35 go back to as early as 2008. Given the efficiency of military hardware procurement in China, PLAAF would have signed the deal long time ago if China was desperate for Su-35.

This isn't a done deal, but Russia is publicly announcing an official document CCP has signed. It is far more than rumour, it is fact China intends to purchase Su-35s.

 

[p2prada]

2 you can make brahmos why you still importing klub???subsonic or not is not the point here....its an ASM to say the least.....

Y u no understand.
may be @p2prada can explain

We don't have subsonic AShM programs simply because we have easy and free access to foreign variants from Russia and the west.

No point trying to run programs for nearly obsolete technology.

Also, subsonic vs supersonic does make a difference.

Cost vs capability. Target a destroyer with a $2.5 Million missile. Target a tanker or a troop transport with a $1 Million missile.

Subsonic vs supersonic also have different detection and engagement tactics, so the enemy will have to carry a wider arsenal of countermeasures, which is bad for their budget.

 

[huaxia rox]

We don't have subsonic AShM programs simply because we have easy and free access to foreign variants from Russia and the west.

No point trying to run programs for nearly obsolete technology.

Also, subsonic vs supersonic does make a difference.

Cost vs capability. Target a destroyer with a $2.5 Million missile. Target a tanker or a troop transport with a $1 Million missile.

Subsonic vs supersonic also have different detection and engagement tactics, so the enemy will have to carry a wider arsenal of countermeasures, which is bad for their budget.

what you said cant explain why indians claim brahmos is a success while keep importing other antiship missiles from russia and the west......cant explain why on the one hand indians are codeveloping some gen5 jet fighter (gen4 in chinese concept) with russians and on the other hand trying to import french unstealth gen4 fighter (gen3 in chinese concept).......

how ever if you happen to be able to explain that.....please also apply your explainations to PLAAF who is making j-20 and 31 while said to be trying to buy su-35 since some years ago........if what you are doing makes sense so does ours.....

 

[huaxia rox]

Here are some denials by Chinese posters on Su-35 purchase a while ago on this very forum

just read the 1st couple of pages of the j-20 thread in this very forum you know what is real busted.....dont forget to read the 1st couple of posts you yourself posted there i suggest.......

 

[mikhail]

Hahaha， they are unable to buy 300 now, their defence budget was cut off by a huge chunk.

maybe Rs.14,000 crore sounds like a huge chunk to you but the reality is that its peanut when compared with the current defence budget of Rs.193,000 crores which is equivalent to around $37 billion but hey we only allot less than 2% as our defence budget and btw that money was not cut from our defence budget itself but from the unspent money of the last year's defence budget!got it my little,cute chini!

 

[Apollyon]

what you said cant explain why indians claim brahmos is a success while keep importing other antiship missiles from russia and the west......

Brahmos cost $3 ----ing million and weigh 3 tons, not every ----ing ship can be armed with it.
Well you need to less worry about Brahmos and Klub-N/S and more about this new Japanese supersonic anti-ship missile, ASM-3

LONDON messages, according to the Russian military news network reported on July 22, Japan's Tokyo Shimbun "reported on July 21, said Japan's defense ministry has started the development of the domestic first supersonic anti-ship missile ASM-3, that might be used against China aircraft carrier built in 2016.

　　It is reported that Japan XASM-3 new supersonic anti-ship missile project is expected to total cost of 32.5 billion yen, more than 360 million U.S. dollars. The developed ASM-3 missile flight speeds exceeding Mach 3, warships equipped with the latest modern anti-missile system is mainly used for the implementation of the blow. Worldwide, only Russia and the United States have a supersonic missile similar purposes, but these missiles are quite massive, mainly deployed in strategic bombers. Be restricted by law in Japan can not have these aircraft, and therefore decided to develop can be mounted on the fighter, a compact supersonic anti-ship missile, is expected to use main assembly ASM-3 to F-2 fighter, missile length of 6 m, weight of 900 kg, plan to use a hybrid rocket jet engine. To improve the accuracy of the blow, will use the the Japanese domestic active guidance radar and the target electronic irradiation system.

http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2010-07-23/0958602169.html

 

[p2prada]

what you said cant explain why indians claim brahmos is a success while keep importing other antiship missiles from russia and the west......cant explain why on the one hand indians are codeveloping some gen5 jet fighter (gen4 in chinese concept) with russians and on the other hand trying to import french unstealth gen4 fighter (gen3 in chinese concept).......

The answer is time frame. Rafales are meant to replace aging Mig-27s while PMF is meant for a different purpose.

how ever if you happen to be able to explain that.....please also apply your explainations to PLAAF who is making j-20 and 31 while said to be trying to buy su-35 since some years ago........if what you are doing makes sense so does ours.....

I had already explained in detail at least two times.

The answer is time frame. J-20 and J-31 are for the next decade. Su-35 is for this decade. If we assume what the Chinese Col said is correct, you need Russian engine technology to push J-20 forward. Also, the Japanese and Koreans aren't sitting around. They are inducting advanced 4.5th gen aircraft and you already know India's procurement status. So, China will have to follow suit to keep up. You can't fight Super MKIs and F-15J and Ks with J-11As and Bs only, you will need J-17(?) and Su-35.

A decade is a long time.

 

[nimo_cn]

The answer is time frame. Rafales are meant to replace aging Mig-27s while PMF is meant for a different purpose.



I had already explained in detail at least two times.

The answer is time frame. J-20 and J-31 are for the next decade. Su-35 is for this decade. If we assume what the Chinese Col said is correct, you need Russian engine technology to push J-20 forward. Also, the Japanese and Koreans aren't sitting around. They are inducting advanced 4.5th gen aircraft and you already know India's procurement status. So, China will have to follow suit to keep up. You can't fight Super MKIs and F-15J and Ks with J-11As and Bs only, you will need J-17(?) and Su-35.

A decade is a long time.

I would like to agree with p2prada this time!

Japan is getting F-22 and F-35, that could put a lot of pressure on China. J20 is a long shot, PLAAF needs a stop gap. Su-35 is not good enough, but it is the only thing can get on market.

 

[p2prada]

I would like to agree with p2prada this time!

Japan is getting F-22 and F-35, that could put a lot of pressure on China. J20 is a long shot, PLAAF needs a stop gap. Su-35 is not good enough, but it is the only thing can get on market.

There is nothing better than the Su-35 today to counter new threats.

It is obviously carrying what is the next best radar after the F-22, for now.

So why settle for less?

Since when is Japan getting F-22s? Only F-35s.

 

[shiphone]

I know IAF chief just reconfirmed that IAF version PAKFA 's mass production would begin in 2022.....but in China ,the thing is different ..the first batch of J20 LSP would come between 2015-2017 if no big problems occur..it's not for next decade....the timeline is decided in 2007 ...just wait and see...

and small batchs of Su35(24-48 jets) won't change a lot this time frame and PLAAF's plan...the Su35 purchase is quite different with the early Su27 purchase in 1990s...Su35 won't be the main strength of PLAAF like Su27sk used to be.

===============
maybe OT
...everytime ,everytime ...when I read those announcement like 'we has the "Brahmos" ,you should piss on your pant', we will laugh for a while...it seem that Brahmos is some kind of ultimate weapon on this earth....please..it's just a variant of Russian P800 project with some change adapting to the Indian industry ability. and RN might keep using the original P800 on her new DDGs...BTW ,Vietnam has paid the Russia to Import the P800 "Bastion-P" complexes already (2 syetems in service), meanwhile some indian were keep declaring India could or should(LOL) present Brahmos to VN as a gift. (and another big gift was LCA)...guys, be a little realistic please .you have the internet already ,and you should have know the world outside of india is quite big.

----------------------------------------
on the other hand ,may I remind you that PLAN has also operating the Super sonic Antiship missile for decade? which is P-270 Moskit on 4 Sovremenny-class destroyer. and Club missile familiy came with the KILO 636.

and PLANAF has the KH31A fitted on the Su30MKK2 ,and the the YJ91 varient(the TOT of KH31 family) on the JH7/7As and H6.

-------------------------------------------------
PLAN is not unfamiliar with the advantage of Super sonic Antiship missile systems , of course the disadvantage as well

china also has a long history of research on Supersonic AShM and development... in 1980s, two projects was in development--YJ1(45KM) and HY3(130Km)--- which had the export project designation as C101(ship to ship ...YJ1) and C301(land to ship...HY3)...but when P-270 Moskit came to China, both projects ended then after...obviously the russian design was more mature.

after the first atempt, the new projects kept appearing ...I bring some of them here.
YJ 11------unfortunately this project lost to YJ12 in the super sonic ASM competion

YJ 12------the winner will be fitted on JH7B ,H6D, J15...

YJ 18----- 052D class DDG's SSM which replace the YJ62 SSM on052C.

--------------------------------------------------
the Supersonic AshM defence training is not rare in PLAN daily training program...and I would like to use this image to end this part

 

[nimo_cn]

There is nothing better than the Su-35 today to counter new threats.

It is obviously carrying what is the next best radar after the F-22, for now.

So why settle for less?

Since when is Japan getting F-22s? Only F-35s.

My mistake, Japan isn't getting F-22s, Americans are deploying F-22s in Japan.

Anyway, Su-35 isn't some sort of ideal aircraft I expect, I will be disappointed if that deal happens for whatever reason.

 

[Armand2REP]

There is nothing better than the Su-35 today to counter new threats.

It is obviously carrying what is the next best radar after the F-22, for now.

So why settle for less?.

How is PESA better than AESA? The claims of Irbis-E get a big

 

[p2prada]

Anyway, Su-35 isn't some sort of ideal aircraft I expect, I will be disappointed if that deal happens for whatever reason.

I will be disappointed too. For you it is a loss of face. For me it is providing a potential adversary with a powerful technology. Personally, I don't like it.

I think I said the same a long time ago.

How is PESA better than AESA? The claims of Irbis-E get a big

Similar or same levels of performance when it comes to single role capability.

Point out the number of airborne radars in the world that exceed the specs of the Irbis E with an extremely high power aperture product. Only the APG-77 and it is actually lesser.

It is not as simple as comparing PESA and AESA alone. Capability differs depending on other design aspects and parameters like gain, directivity, power, power aperture product etc.

 

[Armand2REP]

I will be disappointed too. For you it is a loss of face. For me it is providing a potential adversary with a powerful technology. Personally, I don't like it.

How long has China been trying to copy AL-31F? Its been 20 years since they tore apart their first engine and they still don't have a reliable facsimile. J-10 still uses Russian radars. All the things Russia left out of Su-27SK production ToT, China still hasn't replaced. These Su-35s come with ZERO ToT as they are OTS. Are you really that worried when it is 20 years later and they still can't match it?

Similar or same levels of performance when it comes to single role capability.

Point out the number of airborne radars in the world that exceed the specs of the Irbis E with an extremely high power aperture product. Only the APG-77 and it is actually lesser.

It is not as simple as comparing PESA and AESA alone. Capability differs depending on other design aspects and parameters like gain, directivity, power, power aperture product etc.

Similar performance in power only, it takes 60s to scan 120° forward/10° thin. It lacks multi-mode, low observable scan, quick scan and short maintenance schedules. It also lacks any expandability into future technology application. It is a dead-end technology Russia keeps wasting time with.

It is not as simple as comparing power outputs, Irbis is deficient in all other areas which are quite IMPORTANT.