The Special Relationship between Japan and India

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by busesaway, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. busesaway

    busesaway Regular Member

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    I think it's wonderful that India and Japan have such a close relationship. I think India should celebrate its amicable friendship with Japan more often. In fact, I think India should attempt to build a "special relationship" with Japan.

    [​IMG]

    Economic Ties
    The two countries share a free-trade agreement. Japan is the fifth-largest investor into India, and the third-largest "normal" investor after USA and Russia. (Singapore and Mauritius are tax-havens).

    Japan recently provided India with a soft loan in order to build India's first bullet train, and I think Japan should be the primary source for the bullet train (or mag-lev) network in India. India and Japan should create a closer free-trade deal than invigorates more economic movement between the two countries.

    Military Ties
    India and Japan have conducted several military exercises together, and both share a passion for maintaining neutrality in the South China Sea.

    Japan's military industry is incredibly developed and among the most advanced in the world. They have the eight largest military budget in the world. The production costs are high for the Japanese due to a desire to not export arms, but the nation is fully self-sufficient in the area of defense.

    Japan should become a major source for India's military imports. India should also host Japan's military in a similar manner to China's increasing global reach, and request that Japan provides a home for India's forces too.

    The two countries should conduct more military exercises together. They should also form a closer military alliance that involves some military base sharing. The two should prioritize peacekeeping in the South China Sea.

    Popular View
    India is held very highly by the peoples of Japan, especially in comparison to its neighbour Pakistan. Japanese people hate India the least out of all major countries, according to the GlobeScan poll from 2015; the lack of hate is only matched by Sri Lankans.

    Japan is also one of the most favored country among the peoples of India.
     
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  3. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    There is a thread for this INDIA-JAPAN RELATION..already.


    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/indo-japan-relations.6708/
     
  4. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    Japan-India defence cooperation aimed at China disgraceful: Beijing

    BEIJING: Reacting angrily to a report that Japan plans to sell search and rescue aircraft+ to India at a lower cost, China on Tuesday said it would consider such a move "disgraceful" if it is aimed at pressuring Beijing over the disputed South China Sea issue.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-disgraceful-Beijing/articleshow/54311005.cms

    china arming pakistan and selling nukes to NoKo is Not just disgraceful but disgusting.

    "But as reported that the Japanese government is to cut the price to sell weapons to India with an aim to pressurise China on the South China Sea+ issue and such attempt is targeted at China. If such a report is true then we don't think the purpose such cooperation is righteous".

    Righteous...china?
    :rofl:
    The same china who is NOT abiding by the International Court Arbitration or ruling



    Asked to elaborate on why China regards this sale of weapons disgraceful, Hua said "we hold no objection to state to state cooperation including defence cooperation as long is such cooperation is normal".

    NORMAL : :rofl:
    chinese normal is arming terrorist state of pakistan.
    chinese normal is selling nuke tech to NoKo via pak
    chinese normal is not abiding by international rules
    chinese normal is border issues.
    chinese normal is talking in forked tongue
     
  5. desicanuk

    desicanuk Regular Member

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    Despite all this PRC is our largest or second largest trading partner.Go figure!!!!!We are stupid !!!
     
  6. PD_Solo

    PD_Solo The only one

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    Let them be the one of the largest trading partner.What has that to do with the arming of paki and noko.

    We shall take decision that shall be good for our self interest.
     
  7. Adioz

    Adioz Irregular member

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    Wait a sec, aren't you the same guy that wrote this:-
    And right after, you cheer on Japan-India defence ties?:laugh:

    Anyhow, I would pray that India-Japan relations should be strongest of all bilateral relations of India. And a lot of that is because of the PLA threat. (Though some of that is because the Japanese make awesome anime:lehappy:)

    BTW, you living in South Korea right? What's your nationality?
     
  8. Adioz

    Adioz Irregular member

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    Well, PRC is also USA's and Japan's largest trading partner. So are they all stupid?
    No. Let me explain:-
    • A country like Japan is very high in the value-chain. They export innovative high tech goods. But mostly, these are not consumer goods, rather they produce components, for example, to be used in a smartphone.
    • These are then shipped for final assembly to a factory in PRC. Final assembly of a smartphone is low-tech manufacturing process and the value added by the Chinese is a mere fraction of the value of the smartphone (most of the value ~95% is of the Japanese components in the smart phone).
    • These smartphones are then shipped to consumers in countries like USA and India.
    So what happened here?
    • Trade figures counted the entire value of the smartphone in the figure for India-PRC trade or USA-PRC trade.
    • Trade figures also counted the value of all Japanese components shipped to PRC as Japan-PRC trade.
    • All the while, none of this was counted as Japan-India trade or Japan-USA trade, even though 95% of the smartphones' value was created in Japan.
    This bloats trade figures in favour of China. Now, if we shift the final assembly factory to another country (not a big deal as only low-tech manufacturing is required), say Vietnam, India-PRC, USA-PRC and Japan-PRC trade would fall dramatically.
    Trade figures today are based on the false statistics of bilateral trade, even though supply chains span several countries. These trade figures do not take into account the value-addition that each country does to a product. However the only difference between a middle-income, developing country like PRC and a high income, developed country like Japan is that Japan can base its entire manufacturing sector on high-tech high value-addition industry and outsource the low-tech jobs, where cheap labour makes a difference, to China. This means in worst case scenario, Japan will be able to create a complete product on its home soil, but PRC will not be able to do so.
     
  9. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    Any update on the bullet train?
    India and Japan can have a joint space exploration program.
     
  10. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    Exactly...Trading Partner... chinese have to keep that in Mind when they are pestering India through pak.
    Why should ONLY India be hyper about this TRADING PARTNER STATUS and make it like an "Issue".
     
  11. busesaway

    busesaway Regular Member

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    I support stronger ties with many East Asian countries and I don't consider China to be a major threat to India.

    1) The border skirmishes between China and India are minor. Similar examples of border skirmishes are:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputed_status_of_Gibraltar
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_Ireland#Division_of_territorial_waters
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Blanc#History
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island

    I don't think these border disputes will ever be solved. The most likely result is a stale-mate where no-one cares.

    2) China supports left-wing maoists that are considered a threat to India's stability. I think this is a major issue that needs to be dealt with, albeit proof that China's funding them is limited. The best solution is to allow China to fund a peaceful political party based on communist values in India, lead by Indian nationals and Indian people.

    Consequently, we could also see countries like Japan and Thailand supporting Hindu-Buddhist parties in India too.

    3) China's support for Pakistan is the most worrying aspect of Sino-Indian relations.

    China has always had a racist pro-han agenda to everything it does, and it is particularly racist against the Muslim minorities in China. Xinjiang's ethnic natives are some of the poorest in China, with most of the development benefiting Han Chinese migrants.

    Pakistan is also a breeding ground for many of the rebels causing problems in China, especially the Islamic movement in China that's done some serious attacks against the Han Chinese.

    India needs China to pivot away from Pakistan. China must cut all financial and military ties with Pakistan. China could even establish a military offensive against Pakistan.

    In return, India must provide the same advantages to China that Pakistan provided. Access to Indian ports and economic freedoms for Chinese companies. India should also insists on enriching cultural exchange between the two countries.


    4) China is courting many neighboring countries of India, allowing India to lose its geographic advantage. But I don't consider this to be too bad, since it will aid the development of several neighboring countries that will in turn advantage India.

    5) China is posturing in the South China Sea, through which many Indian cargo ships travel. While I doubt it will ever escalate into anything serious, India should work with other East Asian countries to maintain neutrality.
     
  12. PAPA

    PAPA Regular Member

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    there are proves of Chinese involvement with maoist ............................and your support to pakistaan is well known .


    giving freedom to Chinese companies will destroy our domestic companies ................it is an extremely bad Idea for Indians. we would prefer " Make in India " type initiatives .

    south China sea is Important not only for our Cargo ships but for our Oil companies too .

    SCS is full of Oil & minerals & that is the cause of all the conflict .

    Religion or race are not cause of this conflict .
    India has less than 2 % Buddhist population .

    left wing parties dont have any public support in India .

    they have some influence in only 1 or 2 states .


    you are not doing any development in our neighboring countries ...................for example your much hyped humbantota port in lanka is a failed project .

    you are just Buying leaders of our neighboring countries and using them against India .

    RAW already F*cked your strings of Pearls Plan by changing Govt. of Lanka , barma & Nepal .
     
  13. Adioz

    Adioz Irregular member

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    My first reaction : :rage: Why does this fu**er not get it?
    My reaction after thinking 1 minute: :facepalm: Maybe he is mad. A lost cause.

    My reaction after thinking for a while:
    Now I finally get it. This guy is as an optimist.
    Something like this -----> :lehappy:.

    He wants world peace. We all want it too.
    The difference: we are realists whereas he is already a slave to the utopia he created. Bloody idealist.

    busesaway:lehappy:

    Sane people of DFI :hat:
    (@sorcerer @PAPA @Bahamut @PD_Solo @desicanuk )
    :lehappy:: Lets both China and India throw down our weapons.
    No dude. They'll capture Arunachal and other areas.::dude:

    :lehappy::No they won't. Border disputes are small fry. They'll forget about it.


    No seriously dude. They won't forget about their national sovereignty.::dude:

    :lehappy::Go for CBMs then. Build mutual confidence.

    How?::dude:

    :hmm:

    :lehappy::India must provide the same advantages to China that Pakistan provided. Access to Indian ports and economic freedoms for Chinese companies. India should also insists on enriching cultural exchange between the two countries.

    Not going to work ::dude:

    :hmm:
    :hmm:
    :hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm:

    :yawn:

    :hmm:X10,000

    :lehappy:: The best solution is to allow China to fund a peaceful political party based on communist values in India, lead by Indian nationals and Indian people.

    :creepy:

    :lehappy::C'mon, its a great idea!


    We are no thinking about how to make the Chinese trust us.:bplease:
    We are wondering why the f*** will we trust the PRC?::bplease:
    :lehappy::China is unfairly hated in this forum. It's a rising superpower with technological advances that match those made by the USSR during the Cold War. There's no reason to maintain a stalemate with China in a similar manner to Pakistan - Indians and Chinese generally get along in many fields of industry and culture, and economically India and China are very close to each other.

    The progression from the current situation will obviously be closer military ties and defense ties, that are mutually beneficial for China and India.

    :facepalm:

    What about China's activities in the oceans?::dude:

    :lehappy:: China is courting many neighboring countries of India, allowing India to lose its geographic advantage. But I don't consider this to be too bad, since it will aid the development of several neighboring countries that will in turn advantage India.
    :lehappy:: China is posturing in the South China Sea, through which many Indian cargo ships travel. While I doubt it will ever escalate into anything serious, India should work with other East Asian countries to maintain neutrality.
    :lehappy:: C'mon guys. If we do this, the world will be full of butterflies that poop rainbows, where tigers will eat grass and not kill deer.
    :smash::smash::smash::smash::smash:

    :lehappy:Wonder why they not replying. Nobody is online either. Wonder why......................





    On a more serious note:-
    Busesaway, i get that you are a good guy and you want the best for all and you want world peace. Point is, the world is not full of good guys like you. Instead, its full of cold, calculating people. You are just too naive to see it. If all this realpolitik pains you, try some other forum. Otherwise, be pragmatic and accept reality.
    The path to world peace is not easy. Do not insult the suffering of those who suffer in the real world by saying that their suffering is pointless. Wishing away conflicts does not work.

    Look at my signature below.
    Can you understand and accept its meaning?
    If not, you cannot understand what this world is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
  14. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    Unless we take the fact that there is 5$trillion dollar worth trade in those water plus untapped oil and gas resources .A war will happen may be limited when stakes are this high
    Buddy they blow people up and fight with adminstration
    They do not care about are election
    China is full of bad debt ,they are building nothing now
    If only the Chinese communist party knew it
    China companies use unfair where worker have no right and use slave labor how do India company compete with them .
     
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  15. busesaway

    busesaway Regular Member

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    I relent on some of my pro-china sympathies. I understand that China has done many negative things in relation to India, but I also think that India must move forward by trying to repair ties with China and integrate into China's economy and defense realm.

    I'll provide a more scornful view of China:

    Border Dispute
    China and India need to forget about the border dispute. There is no-one on either side who cares about where the border is drawn, and most people wouldn't care if things were kept the same, though I think Tibetans would prefer to live in India. The future will be looser borders that allow people to travel with loose visa regulations.

    Tibet
    Tibet is generally considered an extension of South Asia that's politically held by China. I think China needs to give some autonomy to Tibet, and similarly India needs to give autonomy to "South Tibet", so that they can form some sort of "autonomous government"... and I think that China should allow Tibet to form close relations with India.

    South China Sea
    The South China Sea must remain neutral. India should work with other peacekeepers in the SCS to maintain neutrality and make sure cargo isn't lost to China. But India shouldn't take sides in the dispute over oil and minerals.

    Maoist Insurgency
    India must complain if it truly believes that China is funding insurgents in India. While I can accept a Maoist political party being funded by China, I think an insurgency is one step too far.

    Pakistan
    India should not accept China's support for Pakistan. If a military confrontation should happen in between India and China, India should make clear that it will be over military/economic aid from China to Pakistan; China doesn't need Pakistan for anything that India can't provide.

    However, my primary goal and aim is for India to establish closer relations with China, that involve movement of culture, money, and knowledge in both directions. I want to see more of:
    • India is allowed to join the AIIB and SCO
    • China funds the Nandela University
    • China provides soft loan for the establishment of Colombo Port Harbor
    • China builds a high-speed railway linking Nepal to Tibet
    • China and India carry out joint military exercise

    In particular, I want to see more investment and imports by China that benefits India.
     
  16. PD_Solo

    PD_Solo The only one

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    Do you want to read Mandela university ?
     
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  17. busesaway

    busesaway Regular Member

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    :lol:Sorry. I meant Nalanda University.

    I also treat the border disputes around Pakistan as being part of the "Pakistan" problem, rather than as part of generic border disputes.
     
  18. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    I have been to Tawang and the anti China sentiment is sky high, they do not want autonomy they want guns and airfields
    It matter to people,there are different law ,taxes and rights .Just try to look at what Communist party to do its opponents and then you get know why they are scare
    We tried all that ,no matter how much evidence we give them ,they say not enough
     
  19. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    India doesnt care about the border issues of other nations but only about Indian borders. INdia is not going to take it light thinking that its "just a border issue" which china wants India to think and carry on with BILATERAL ARRANGEMENTS.
    Isnt this what the chinese foreign ministry underlines every now and then saying "keep the 'small' issues aside and work for BETTER FUTURE"
    BULL SHIT!!!
    small issues becomes larger issues if its not sorted out.
    You are batting along the line set by the commie agenda.
    Border issue is an ISSUE between India and china and any chinese violations into Indian area will be treated as an aggression.


    china is a party that is threat to INDIA. India is dealing with the threat by killing Naxals and chinese investment that doesnt mean that inorder to ensure peace India will try to appease china by allowing it to FUND threat directly Inside India.

    china can allow HINDU political party in china and have CROSS CULTURAL INTEGRATION..Anyway Budha and India is not too far.

    china needs pakistan to counter Indian growth.
    china should walk the talk to get in the good books of India.
    chinese culture has no Say in REALPOLITIK of china.
    CCP is a cultureless party literally. So there is no point in understanding china culturally or how chinese thinks meaning there is no point in understanding the HAN majority as the majority of china has NO SAY in the administration of china.
    Meaning people of china are just slaves controlled by dictator commie party who has nothing to do with culture and exchange.

    If cultural exchange is a solution to prevent misunderstanding then tell that to CCP in china to enrich XIANJING REGION with culture so that terrorism can be prevented in china.




    china is courting and every neighbors of china courted china in the international court on south china see.
    India doesnt need to piggy back on chinese diplomacy for mutual alliance with neighbors..It has already beaten china in that diplomatic game.
    Its china that is isolated big time by all nations in the periphery of china.
    Read the international news and you can see whats happening in south china sea.
    India is working with all EAST ASIAN nations to counter chinese threat.
     
  20. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    1) India is already in the SCO and AIIB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Infrastructure_Investment_Bank | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation )

    2)Nalanda Univ. is a regional initiative lead by INdia (The University of Nalanda is proposed to be established under the aegis of the East Asia Summit (EAS), as a regional initiative. The NMG also has representatives from Singapore, China, Japan and Thailand.)


    3) Colombo Port Harbor is a tactical move which India will counter in the region.

    4)china threatened to DROP the rail projects in India if terrorist state of pak is not allowed in NSG.

    5) chian and India is carrying out joint military exercise since a long time.
    http://thediplomat.com/2015/10/china-and-india-hold-joint-military-exercise/

    china is not a giver its a taker unless china changes it attitude its not gonna gain anything
     
  21. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    wow!! You want china to AID pakistan spy agency ISI and its terrorists to cross border into India that easy..
    Everyone cares where border is drawn when the nation is haunted by terrorism. Nations should have checks and responsibilities when it comes to international relations..Border is a place to start all that.
    Are you smoking Utopia..whatever it is you are high!!




    South Tibet is a part of India..why should India give it autonomy.

    But I liked the way you used the word "SOUTH TIBET" in the context to refer to Arunachal Pradesh.

    Unlike china in Tibet killing monks India is helping people of Arunachal pradesh..

    Isnt that from the agenda of CCP.



    India should do what is right for the larger international community and INDIA should explore options with other nations to look for oil and minerals.
    South CHINA SEA is all about minerals and OIL chinas claim in this region is JUST for that.
    India should side with PEACE KEEPERS to ensure that rules for rights are kept on sharing oil and minerals in the region.

    :pound::pound:
    Hilarious.
    I like the way you are talking in forked tongue
    .
    India should work with other peacekeepers but India should not side with parties on DISPUTE for Oil and Minerals..
    :pound:Isnt that the REAL CHINESE WORRY in the region.
    Your statement amplify the real chinese concern about India in SCS...South China Sea trade route safety is just a big cover for china to explore option to steal oil and mineral from the region.
    chinese worry is about adding a major player like India in the region into the equation of the conflict.



    Complain? India has its way of dealing with Maoists..its killing them and disarming them.
    See..this is the chinese investment in India...Maoists and Naxals.



    Tell that to the CCP.
    pakistan is a stooge and a nation run by army who will side with any one for money. china is looking to conlonize pakistan and loot its mineral resources.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016

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