The Source of Extremism in Islamic Communities

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by sydsnyper, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. sydsnyper

    sydsnyper Senior Member Senior Member

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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-source-of-muslim-extremism_us_57843863e4b04041a9858324

    Contemporary Muslim scholar Hamza Yusuf writes, “This insidious disease has a source, and that source must be identified, so we can begin to inoculate our communities against it.”

    Indeed, that source is clear. Hamza Yusuf knows it and Muslims know it. We just did not want to deal with it, and instead, placed the blame on others. Let’s face it: it is the rogue interpretations and mistranslations of Quran by the villains of Islam that has created this mess.

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    These villains are not the ones that we conveniently portray as Islamophobes, but they our own Muslim scholars like ibn-Tamiyah, ibn-Kathir, Maududi, Banna and others. No doubt, they have written some good stuff, but all that so-called good gets wiped out with some of their poisonous write ups.

    If we want Islam to be Islam, a religion of peace, we need to muster the courage to stand up and reject those interpretations that are anathema to the pluralistic nature of Islam. Those secondary books are mistakenly elevated to be divine by a few Muslims. Bold actions are required.



    Allah is not the enemy of Shias, Sunnis, Ahmadiyyas, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Gays, Lesbians, Buddhists, Atheists, Pagans and others, as many Muslims wrongly make Him out to be. They have reduced the universal God (Rabbul Aalameen) to a private God owned by them and acting for them. This simply is unacceptable.

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is a mercy to mankind, but if you ask Asiya Bibi, Naderkhani, Lena Joy, Abdur Rahman and a host of others who have been charged with blasphemy and apostasy, they have difficulty in seeing the Prophet as a mercy to mankind. How can they see it, if the radicals among us harass them in the name of the Prophet? Many Muslims know that the apostasy and blasphemy laws are not rooted in Islam, yet they have remained silent.

    All this venom in the name of Islam is coming from a single source; the secondary books. The Quran is the only authentic book and we cannot go wrong with it. Until we reject those other books, we don’t have a prayer.

    Sharia as practiced is not divine, and divine by definition should be flawless; Sharia laws cannot be divine by any stretch of the imagination. It was a body of law created by men with the intent of serving justice to fellow beings. Our own Constitution is a human effort and has been amended 27 times to correct the flaws. To err is human and Sharia law has major flaws that need fixing in order to reflect God’s law which cannot be anything but justice, fairness, kindness and mercy.

    We cannot pass the buck and discount our critics as “Islamophobes.” Al-Baghdadi quotes Ibn Hisham’s biography of the Prophet for his evil acts. That book is wrong and unfortunately many a Muslims are not aware of that. Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, Brigitte Gabrielle are not cooking up, they are simply quoting what is written up in Hadith, Tafseers and Seerah even though they know it is wrong and at times discounted Hadiths.

    The good news is 99.99% of Muslims live their lives and let others live theirs. But that 1/10th of 1% is enough to create a mess. Why should they listen to you, when they have those books to give them their legitimacy?

    Terrorism will continue until those bad books are replaced with the correct ones. We cannot force any one to believe otherwise, we have to work with those who are diametrically opposed to us, and plan on bringing common goodness to all in two or three generations. It has to be a gradual process of reason and logic involving everyone. Any attempt to quick fix will back fire and worsen the situation. Believe me they’ll hold on to their dear books.

    Let’s stick to the Quran, we simply cannot go wrong. I know this frightens many; it is, as if pulling the rug from under their feet. In reality, you can live a moral and conscious life by simply following the Quran. Rejecting those other, so-called Islamic books will not disorient you at all. Personal Sharia is fine, but the public Sharia needs to be amended (references below).

    As a first step towards fixing our problems, we need to rehabilitate the Hadith. A new compilation of Hadiths is the need of the day, it will have two sections. The first section will reflect those Hadiths that are compatible with the statements that God is just and the Prophet is a mercy to the mankind; the second section will include all the questionable Hadiths for the scholars to prove their authenticity.

    Our problems:
    1. We are afraid of questioning the old-time scholars, many of whom were insensitive to fellow humans who were not Muslims, as they were not raised in the pluralistic environment that Prophet Muhammad lived through.
    2. The man who writes the biggest check for the mosque can shut down the others, and they don’t even make an effort to present their point of view and abandon the good ideas.
    • Prophet Muhammad had said let the left hand not know the charity you give by the right hand, and he added, let no one be humbled down by your favors. If you are a contributor, I urge you to follow the Prophet and not treat the recipients as your slaves.
    1. Most Muslim leaders follow the idiom “Monkey see, monkey do”, that is, we will do it if others are doing it. They lack conviction and don’t have the courage to be the first.
    2. Leadership is not appeasing friends and members of the mosque but leading the community through the pull-e-sirat, i.e., the difficult road.
    God has blessed us in America; we are a free and the brave people. If we cannot take the responsibility to fix the problems and boldly take out the germs that have infected the way Muslim have understood Islam, I think no one else in the world can do it.

    It is time to take back our religion. I will be happy to boldly stand with all Muslims who want to see Islam as a religion of peace, not only in words but in deeds. Here are a few pieces;

    Quran is not for Muslims - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-ghouse/quran-is-not-for-muslims_b_6174940.html

    Pristine and Mangled up Islam - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-ghouse/two-islams-the-mangledup-_b_5748280.html

    Genesis of Sharia Law - http://sharialaws.blogspot.com/2013/02/genesis-of-sharia-law.html

    Sharia Laws need Fixing.
    http://sharialaws.blogspot.com/2014/01/fixing-sharia-laws.html

    For the heck of it, please check at least five translations of the verse 3:85 and see how messed up they are. Meanwhile, I will finish writing an article on 3:85. Of course, everything written above applies to all faiths, but that does not abdicate our responsibility to fix our own problems.

    God bless the world and every one in it.

    Mike Ghouse is a Muslim Speaker, pluralist and an activist. More about him at www.MuslimSpeaker.com

     
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  3. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    (but) how do we reconcile what the article/author espouses, to the politically-incorrect-to-say (bloody/blood-filled) history of islam & its method(s) of propagation?!!
    or simply leave it be, in lieu of an actually peaceful muslim population not just in word but in deed (a state achieved by whatever means)?
     
  4. adrenalin

    adrenalin Regular Member

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    what bullshit, the source of extremism is fuckistan, not more, nothing less.
     
  5. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Agreed! Also the Hadiths written by self-serving mullahs.
     
  6. sydsnyper

    sydsnyper Senior Member Senior Member

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    What is important is that people of the religion are taking note to separate the blackest sheep from the herd. This should progress till a worldwide reformation takes place of the likes that happened with Christianity.
     
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  7. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    Being a Muslim is more a product of social conditioning than theology. It's unlikely that after hearing a scholarly seminary's rebuttal of the Quran's alleged misinterpretation*, a Muslim will suddenly go "holy shit! so, I've been following the wrong commandments? let me immediately give up hostility towards the kaffirs and become an enlightened individual". If you listen to Tarek Fateh, 80% Muslims haven't even read the Quran (not that it would have a positive impact on humanity even if they did), so making theological arguments is not going to derail the average Islamist from his pursuits.

    *The claim of being misinterpreted itself is false. There is ample objective and unequivocal mainstream endorsement in the religious texts for the kind of ethos that Muslim societies espouse all over the world. Not for nothing has it turned into a monolith of anti-kaffir hysteria despite spanning from one corner of the world to the other and despite having people of different ethnic background and languages. There is only one common thread which binds them : hatred of the non-believer.

    Pretty much everything the article says is a lie, take for example the claim that blasphemy laws don't have their genesis in the Quran; But they do! there's a mention in the Quran where a woman disagrees with Mohammad and he sends killers to get her assassinated. This is where all the modern blasphemy laws derive their legitimacy. Similarly, every other claim which this scholar has made is a hoax. I get it, he is some sort of moderate preacher propped up by the intel agency of some western country as a part of their anti-radicalization counter-narrative drive, and as @OneGrimPilgrim said maybe we should let him promote a lie if there is a hope that at least a few Muslims might fall for it, but let's not kid ourselves by believing that it is actually true and that it will have any real effect.

    The author criticizes contemporary Islamic scholars and erroneously makes it look like the corruption of ideology has crept in fairly recently, but in reality it started immediately after the death of Mohammad. The Ummah was inherited by four of Muhammad's most devout followers : Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali. At the same time, the Muslims form Medina were going to elect their own leader. So a political game of thrones broke out among these factions. In order to put an end to this, Abu Bakr gate crashed the party, convinced the Madina dudes to call off their election, persuaded Umar to forsake his claim to Muhammad's legacy (due to age issue) and Abu Bakr himself became the leader of the people. 'Leader' was a vague term at that time since he had inherited the flock of people from Muhammad, but Abu Bakr himself wasn't a prophet (since Muhammad had already declared that he was the first and the last prophet), nor was Abu Bakr a king. So for the sake of unity of the Bedouin Muslim tribes, they created a new political position called 'Caliph'. The rights and responsibilities of this Caliph (and the subjects of the Caliphate, and non-believers) were made up during this time period, taking guidance from various instances of Muhammad's life. Of course, not everyone was pleased with Abu Bakr's ascension, especially the followers of Ali who rejected Abu Bakr. The sectarian war has been going on ever since. (The followers of Ali are what we know as Shias). So yeah, don't let anyone tell you that the sectarianism and political Islam is a recent phenomenon or a perversion. It is the mainstream Islam which is a carryover from the days of Muhammad.

    Btw, here's a video of Muslims in Japan outside Turkish embassy :



    The Muslims in this clip have everything in common with the native Japanese, in terms of socio-economic status, the only difference being their religion, and the drastic difference of demeanor is apparent for everyone to see. The violent behavior is consistent with the behavior of their jihadi brothers in all corners of the world. What's their excuse for their extremism in Japan? I don't remember anyone demolishing any Babri Masjid in Japan?

    It is more in line with what @FRYCRY had said in another thread. It is a political ideology to subjugate men. It has never been about seeking knowledge and self-improvement. So giving them more knowledge of the Quran is not going to help in any constructive way. If someone tries to reform himself, he is declared an apostate and hounded by the community. So the escape velocity to get out of this madness is very high.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2016
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  8. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    I always wonder, how come Tarek Fatah (Safety Be Upon Him), even though knowing all about islam's & mohd's history, still manages to skip speaking or rather revealing about him, as well as being a 'card-holding' communist, doesn't denigrate nor reject his islamic faith. his 'truck' exactly stops just at the death of mohd.

    well, everybody gotta hold on to dear life. plus, an 'islamic communist' must be a different breed.
     
  9. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    Someone at IIT Delhi asked him a similar question, I'm paraphrasing "if Islam is so bad, how come these facts aren't common knowledge", to which he replied that Pakistan and Saudi aren't shy to spend cash, so they were able to buy intellectuals in the US to create the global myth of Islamophobia while India is kanjoos, he said. Basically hinting that "you don't worry about the facts and opinions, just give me the money, I'll do the propaganda for you" "no money, no propaganda". Thus proven that an intellectual has no ideological loyalties and no opinions of his own, he is just a paid cheerleader.

    That basically is the business model of all intellectuals, isn't it? that's how it has been for centuries. They first create a monopoly on national and international opinion-building and then use that monopoly as a commodity and sell it to the highest bidder (usually the government in power), hence rightly called presstitutes. Such presstitutes existed even during Akbar's time. Powerful rulers have always had a hobby of hiring poets and writers to create an aura around the personality of the ruler for reasons of legacy. That's why, despite killing 6 lakh Hindus, it is Hindu authors, or so called eminent historians of those times, and of today who still call him Akbar 'the great'. That's why they are scared of things which threaten their monopoly, like other writers or social media. That's why the Lutyen's lobby is lobbying Maneka Gandhi to make news laws to suspend popular twitter accounts which are seizing the battle of narratives and threatening their monopoly. If Hindus start building their own blogs and forums and communicating with each other directly, then who will buy the snake oil these presstitutes have to sell?

    Btw, The name of the lady poet who was killed for mocking Muhammad was Asma Bin Faryan. Just remember that name. Next time a posh, English speaking, self proclaimed moderate-Muslim (or Dhimmilectual) argues that it is the extremists who have distorted Islam, and that there is nothing inherently bad in the scriptures, ask them if they have heard of this woman. Because Muslims believe that the Quran and Hadits have to be followed verbatim, and Muhammad was an ideal person who has to be emulated. So if he killed women poets for blasphemy, can the self-proclaimed moderate-Muslim have the guts to say that it is wrong? if not, then how can he dare to claim that 'other extremists' have twisted it? is he not following the same Islam which others are? or is there a different Quran called Pakistani Quran and Indian Quran and Moderate Quran and Extremist Quran?

    There are many such stories which can shut this moderate-Islam Taquiyya bullshit. After all, be it moderate or extremist, the premise of both is the same, that human beings in the 21 century still need to follow the book, instead of following common sense. It's a ploy to blame others for misinterpretation as it is preferable to blaming the book itself. Instead of saying that "killing is bad because this is not what the book says", can't they simply say "killing is bad because of common sense and it is against the law of the land"? Why do even so called moderates still need to quote from the book? Then what premise are they actually challenging if even they are relying on the book to get ideas about everyday morality and domestic laws?

    If you are a moderate Muslim, at the very least, you must :

    Demand banning of blasphemy laws
    Demand banning of Burqa,
    Demand banning of Islamic banking
    Demand banning of Sharia
    Basically, recommend total separation of religion and state/law.

    If you can't do that, then there's no use building hypothetical castles in the air about what the theology says.
     
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  10. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Articles like this only encourages misapprehension of real problem at hand: the mosaic distinction which lies at the heart of Abrahamic religions (not just Islam). Assman has written extensively on it. Assmann's point is that monotheistic religions are defined by their being "secondary" religions. They view themselves as true religion while viewing others as false, even other monotheistic religions. That true-false distinction is called the Mosaic Distinction. More from Assmann.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    PS : Hamza Yusuf is no moderate. He was your regular frothing in the mouth mullah until 911 and then he did a 180. Some of his lectures from pre-911 are still out there where he talks about NWO/Dajjal/Jews/evil West/Kuffar etc.

    pre-911.





    Where he says "Hindus have been drinking cow piss for centuries" to a laughing audience.



    post 911 he has toned down the rhetoric a lot but every now and then....

    2014 video



    "Moderates" like this are part of the problem.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
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  12. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    and therein lies the fundamental problem!

    evident here again:

     
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  13. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    i meant, i wonder why TF doesnt touch on the life & acts of mohd himself (in order to explain the muslim behaviour)
     
  14. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    @Navnit Kundu - a sample of what kind of communal brotherhood exists in our localities where holi, eid, diwali are celebrated and participated in together, as was being claimed by you-know-who ;)

    http://ummid.com/news/2016/June/01....-topper-secretary-of-sarswati-puja-celeb.html

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    Guwahati: Sarfaraz Hussain, who topped the Assam Class 10 exam 2016 and is being acclaimed for his success, had earlier won prize for reciting Bhagwad Gita and was secretary of the school’s Saraswati Puja celebrations.

    What's more, talking to reporters after Assam High School Leaving Certificate Examination (HSLC) Class 10 results 2016 were declared Tuesday, Sarfaraz's father, Ajmal Hussain praised Hindu goddess of learning "Saraswati" for his son's success.

    The Bhagwad Gita, often referred to as simply the Gita, is a 700-verse Hindu scripture in Sanskrit that is part of the Hindu epic Mahabharata. Hindu traditionalists assert that the Gita came into existence in the third or fourth millennium BC.

    Sarfaraz is a student of Sankardev Sishu Niketan, one of the many schools run by the Vidya Bharati affiliated Sishu Shiksha Samiti, Assam. Vidya Bharati is the education wing of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) - the Hindu extremist organisation.

    The school at Betkuchi on the outskirts of Guwahati has 24 Muslim students, most of whom – like Sarfaraz – have won prizes for reciting the "Bhagwad Gita", according to a report published by Hindustan Times.

    “They have never complained about what we teach because our emphasis is on academic excellence apart from giving the students a grip on "Indian culture" and values,” Akshaya Kalita, the school’s headmaster, said while talking to Hindustan Times.

    “We did not make them feel different, and as a rule, they have lunch with all the other students and teachers after a bhojan mantra (prayer before meal),” he added.

    Hindustan Times further reported that Ajmal Hussain, Sarfaraz’s father who works at a restaurant, let his son study in the school because it provided free education.

    “It would have otherwise been difficult to sustain his studies with my meagre income as a waiter in a small restaurant,” Hindutsan Times quoted his Ajmal Hussain as saying.

    Ajmal, the HT report said, credited his son’s success to his hard work, the support from his schoolteachers, and also to the Hindu goddess of learning "Saraswati".

    “The school shaped my life, and I hope to achieve greater academic glory as my teachers expect,” Sarfaraz said, wishing he could repay his alma mater some day.

    “I worked hard. I never wanted to let my parents down. They (the school management) worked even harder to provide me facilities. I’m happy that my results have made my parents proud,” he said.

    According to media reports, Sarfaraz Hussain topped Assam board’s Class 10 exam with 590 marks out of a maximum 600.

    Assam education minister Himanta Biswa Sarma visited Sarfaraj’s home to congratulate him on his success, and announced a Rs 5 lakh reward in addition to Rs 10 lakh to his school for infrastructure development.

    “The Assam government will fix deposit Rs 5 lakh against Sarfaraj’s name for his future studies. Sarfaraj tells me that he wants to pursue his higher secondary course at Cotton College. The state government will also bear all his educational expenses in Cotton College till his Class 12 examination,” said Sarma.

    --------------------------------------------

    comments:

    upload_2016-7-17_17-17-54.png

    :rofl:
     
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  15. Shadow

    Shadow Regular Member

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    @Navnit Kundu your posts are really enlightening.You should maintain a blog and expose all this propaganda of peaceful islam.Another thing these so called liberals come up with is the example of Abdul Kalam,how to counter that?
     
  16. raja696

    raja696 Regular Member

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    Tell them he use to read gita. That will fix them :)
     
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  17. Shadow

    Shadow Regular Member

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    Then they will say that "it proves islam is tolerant,since it allowed Kalam to read gita"
     
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  18. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    here's the answer............................also, show them the kind of comments from peacephools in response to the kind of news which you can see in my post above:

     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2016
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  19. Shadow

    Shadow Regular Member

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    Thank you very much:yo:.Now I am well armed :shoot:
     
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  20. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    very hilarious as well as pertinent discourse by Tarek Fatah


    ..............................................................
     
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