The Shudras: People who shouldnt have come to this world

[Peter]

If i got benefited because of the wrong system in place it doesn't make system is right. You calling me hypocite for calling out something which is wrong god bless you

Then give up your seat and give to people like us. By keeping that seat and then ranting does it not make you a hypocrite?

 

[myana]

Then give up your seat and give to people like us. By keeping that seat and then ranting does it not make you a hypocrite?

Dude somethings which are done in past cannot be undone now. I cannot time travel to my past and giveup my seat.

And another thing for ur notice please reread my post again in admission to the colleges there are predeifned number of seats allocated to each of the caste categories like oc-10 bc-15,sc/st-10 this is not how it is allocated but i am just qouting some random numbers for you understanding. You have to apply only for the seats which are categorized for you so I can only compete with another guy who has to from BC also for the same seat. When admissions are done finally and classes are started then they wait for a month and give make those unfilled seats as open for all.

If you can understand what iam talking about then it is fine or else stop ur:bs:

 

[angeldude13]

We generals are being punished for the things which our ancestors did(quota system) and you're talking about equality???

 

[Rowdy]

You have to apply only for the seats which are categorized for you so I can only compete with another guy who has to from BC also for the same seat. When admissions are done finally and classes are started then they wait for a month and give make those unfilled seats as open for all.

False general seats are open for all...

 

[Peter]

False general seats are open for all...

Exactly.
Myana does not know how the seats are allocated.

 

[myana]

False general seats are open for all...

In 2000, Eamcet(engineering agricultural and medical common entrance test) for the state Andhrapradesh(then it was AP+telagana) seat allotment happened in 3 phase, Phase 1 was called reservation counselling where every course had 60 seats in every college, 54 seats are filled by eamcet rest 6 for NRI/management these 54 seats were split into reserved seats & general seats reserved seats are reserved as per the reservation percentages every category sc, bc, girls, physically handicapped, children of army personnel, NCC and these are filled in this phase. Person who belongs to that group has to select only that particular seat which was reserved for that particular group. Now the second phase is General counselling which is open for all. I got a rank of 4002 in 2000 so I got a seat in Chaithanya Bharathi Institute of Technology, IT branch in reservation counselling under BC-B category which had some reservation then so I compete with my fellow BC-B candidate for the same seat.
In general counselling as it was open of all for rest of unreserved seats I would be no way near my college gate for my rank. So I didn't even attend the next counselling because it will never give me a better college.

Now the unfilled seats of phase1(reservation) & phase2(general) were open of all will be called in phase3 which happened very late almost a month after college started.

Guys you are losing out on the bigger picture where quota based reservations is making harm than good. As I said in previous posts reservations should be given on basis of parents annual income which can be the basis for the amenities/facilities a person got for his/her education and he/she doesn't lose out because of lack of them in the competitive world.

Now let us take the case of entrance of civil services
where general obc(iam in here) sc/st

max age 32 35 37
no of attempts 6 9 no limit

now let us make this general(all rich sc/st/obc/oc/fc xyz guys) underprivileged(poor sc/st/obc/oc/fc xyz guys)
max age 32 35/37
no of attempts 6 9

Thats what i want if it is possible.

Do you think A person who is a son of 2 IAS parents get age relaxation for 37 years and can make unlimited number of attempts. By the way I dont have anything against him he is one of my close friends. And he also has his own share of problems as his both parents are IAS every one in his family wants him to be an IAS too.

 

[Peter]

. Now the second phase is General counselling which is open for all. I got a rank of 4002 in 2000 so I got a seat in Chaithanya Bharathi Institute of Technology, IT branch in reservation counselling under BC-B category which had some reservation then so I compete with my fellow BC-B candidate for the same seat.
In general counselling as it was open of all for rest of unreserved seats I would be no way near my college gate for my rank. So I didn't even attend the next counselling because it will never give me a better college.

Now the unfilled seats of phase1(reservation) & phase2(general) were open of all will be called in phase3 which happened very late almost a month after college started.

Guys you are losing out on the bigger picture where quota based reservations is making harm than good.

What @Rowdy and others like me are saying that all reservations should be removed and all seat allocations be decided on merit alone.

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

This is part of Amdekbar's Manu and Shudras.

I am a Dalit and after reading my history,I regret that why B R Amdekbar agreed for 'reservation',he shouldnt had.
A separate country was real solution.

I love my India,but how will I forget the aristocracy done by so called upper castes?

"Under the rule of the Marathas and the Peshwas the Untouchables might not spit on the ground lest a Hindu should be polluted by touching it with his foot, but had to hang an earthen pot round his neck to hold his spittle. He was made to drag a thorny branch of a tree with him to brush out his footsteps and when a [f2]

[f3].

In the Punjab a sweeper was required while walking through streets in towns to carry a broom in his hand or under his armpit as a mark of his being a scavenger[f4].

In Bombay the Untouchables were not permitted to wear clean or untorn clothes. In fact the shopkeepers took the precaution to see that before cloth was sold to the Untouchable it was to[f5] and not allowed to cremate their dead[f6].

In Malabar the Untouchables were not permitted to carry [f7].

In South India Untouchables were expressly forbidden to cover the upper part of their body above the waist and in the case of women of the Untouchables they were compelled to go with the upper part of their bodies quite [f8]."

You are only playing in hands of upper castes by getting emotional.

Your post has two parts. First is historical facts which in this modern age is difficult to justify openly, though many people would justify that system in private (and used to do that even openly till recently). So usually they will just ignore or divert the topic.
But then you give them chance to get yourself ridiculed and abused by saying uninformed emotional line like a separate country was real solution. Do you understand united modern liberal India is most in the interests of lowest class/caste groups. Foreign powers would always like to make use of disgruntled poor people and use them as cannon fodder but ultimately their fate would not change. Locally dominant group will take most advantage and will like to have some slaves.

Separate country in India can be a solution only for dominant castes/classes. For lowest caste/class fate would be same everywhere. Dominant group would always like to maintain their hold on power and health and pass to their children and close social circle. Look at Pakistan ( Do you know Pakistan was created for upper caste Aristocracy? Even some Rajput Hindu princely state was interested to join Pakistan. What is the fate of majority of people and especially, lowest class of Pakistan? Mainstream western imperial history as well as reactionary hindutwawadi history will conveniently forget to mention this open secret).

I hope you understand what this means

Conversion to Islam or Christianity will denationalize the Depressed Classes. - Dr Ambedkar

I am not just talking about Islam or Christianity. See what happens here. When the topic is about caste system, the upper caste internet warriors usually hide their faces and let the topic die because anyway they dominate the media. It is inconvenient to openly say what they actually believe. They have some perpetual fear about some Aryan invasion theory and at the same time they know no one can deny, irrespective whether or not the Aryan thing is true or not, that lowest caste people are natives of India. As soon as there is chance to disassociate them from their native Indian identity, they will jump like hyenas and tear you apart and slowly and stealthily come to their agenda of justifying caste hegemony by starting with things like 'caste system for good for ancient times', 'oh we poor people are suffering so much, we are the most oppressed because SC/ST get 100% reservation in all jobs and own all lands.'

 

[myana]

What @Rowdy and others like me are saying that all reservations should be removed and all seat allocations be decided on merit alone.

For poor man who cannot afford private college or school you are asking him to show merits.

Its like asking a Tata Indica to race in all Ferrari car race and to show its merit.

If you want to make competitive exams to be based on merit only then you have to nationalize all the schools and college where you provide same quality of infrastructure, faculty & syllabus. Do you think in a Govt school there is any teachers, if really there are any how many of them come to school and teach properly.

I am just telling to encourage the poor people who are working hard and performing good in education by giving them scholarships and reservations where required.

In cities where most children have decent quality of education in the form private schools, books and tuitions. what should happen to the children who are in village who doesn't have enough resources. Do all of the people living in the villages have to come cities to educate their children in order to make them competent enough or even make level playing ground.

I used to visit a Govt School in Bangalore as I was volunteer of my companies CSR team I used feel bad about the children who are their when i compare with the children in a private just next to it. If a Govt school which is Bangalore city in such bad position imagine what happens to school in the village.

From what you are asking no reservation / only based on merit they will never get into college or anywhere and they will like their parents will be in poverty forever.

Tell me you have any ever thought about the underprivileged people(may be poor or differently abled) and how will you try to give an opportunity and resource to them.

 

[warriorextreme]

This is part of Amdekbar's Manu and Shudras.

I am a Dalit and after reading my history,I regret that why B R Amdekbar agreed for 'reservation',he shouldnt had.
A separate country was real solution.

I love my India,but how will I forget the aristocracy done by so called upper castes?

"Under the rule of the Marathas and the Peshwas the Untouchables might not spit on the ground lest a Hindu should be polluted by touching it with his foot, but had to hang an earthen pot round his neck to hold his spittle. He was made to drag a thorny branch of a tree with him to brush out his footsteps and when a [f2]

[f3].

In the Punjab a sweeper was required while walking through streets in towns to carry a broom in his hand or under his armpit as a mark of his being a scavenger[f4].

In Bombay the Untouchables were not permitted to wear clean or untorn clothes. In fact the shopkeepers took the precaution to see that before cloth was sold to the Untouchable it was to[f5] and not allowed to cremate their dead[f6].

In Malabar the Untouchables were not permitted to carry [f7].

In South India Untouchables were expressly forbidden to cover the upper part of their body above the waist and in the case of women of the Untouchables they were compelled to go with the upper part of their bodies quite [f8]."

Whats upper castes did with Dalits was definitely the worst, most pathetic crime but separate country was not a solution, & I thank Dr. Babasaheb that he did not choose that option, he was the most brilliant human being India had at that time & he knew that even in dalits there are castes & sub castes.

Even today these sub castes are followed by dalit community...A separate country would have been injustice to dalits which were at the bottom of everything when India got independence & would not have managed to survive without vested interests of other communities/countries.

 

[Rowdy]

For poor man who cannot afford private college or school you are asking him to show merits.

Its like asking a Tata Indica to race in all Ferrari car race and to show its merit.

If you want to make competitive exams to be based on merit only then you have to nationalize all the schools and college where you provide same quality of infrastructure, faculty & syllabus. Do you think in a Govt school there is any teachers, if really there are any how many of them come to school and teach properly.

I am just telling to encourage the poor people who are working hard and performing good in education by giving them scholarships and reservations where required.

In cities where most children have decent quality of education in the form private schools, books and tuitions. what should happen to the children who are in village who doesn't have enough resources. Do all of the people living in the villages have to come cities to educate their children in order to make them competent enough or even make level playing ground.

I used to visit a Govt School in Bangalore as I was volunteer of my companies CSR team I used feel bad about the children who are their when i compare with the children in a private just next to it. If a Govt school which is Bangalore city in such bad position imagine what happens to school in the village.

From what you are asking no reservation / only based on merit they will never get into college or anywhere and they will like their parents will be in poverty forever.

Tell me you have any ever thought about the underprivileged people(may be poor or differently abled) and how will you try to give an opportunity and resource to them.

I support reservations on PURELY ECONOMIC GROUNDS. 30% flat below BPL.

 

[pmaitra]

False general seats are open for all...

Nope, they are restricted in many cases. Many exam application forms have a clause that will disqualify a candidate if he falsifies his category. This was pointed out to me by someone who wasn't a reserved category but was in possession of a reserved category certificate, which he had obtained by bribing some officials.

 

[pmaitra]

It is true that there was a proposal to trifurcate India, based on Islam, Hinduism, and what today would be the reserved category minus the Jats.

However, to allow for India to retain enough landmass and considering that what would be reserved category are spread widely across the country and not restricted to a geographical region, it was decided to add schedules in the Constitution, that guaranteed upward mobility to the backward and historically discriminated communities.

I think it is good that India was not trifurcated. Neither the caste Hindus or the backward communities would have benefited by trifurcation. Strength lies in unity.

 

[Abhijat]

False general seats are open for all...

Now let us take the case of entrance of civil services
where general obc(iam in here) sc/st

max age 32 35 37
no of attempts 6 9 no limit

now let us make this general(all rich sc/st/obc/oc/fc xyz guys) underprivileged(poor sc/st/obc/oc/fc xyz guys)
max age 32 35/37
no of attempts 6 9

Thats what i want if it is possible.

@Rowdy , in this context i.e civil services, is right.

Iff a student, regardless of his/her caste, crosses the cut-off for "general" category student, then he/she , will fall in general category seats.

Nope, they are restricted in many cases. Many exam application forms have a clause that will disqualify a candidate if he falsifies his category. This was pointed out to me by someone who wasn't a reserved category but was in possession of a reserved category certificate, which he had obtained by bribing some officials.

Yes, what you said is true in many cases, such as "state-level" engineering entrance examinations. Where, generally, seats are reserved for each category's.

But, in case of , "nation-level" examination such as , Civil Services examination conducted by UPSC , a candidate automatically falls in , "general" category seats i.e seats left after applying all kind of reservations .

 

[Abhijat]

It is true that there was a proposal to trifurcate India, based on Islam, Hinduism, and what today would be the reserved category minus the Jats.

Can you please provide additional material for above context. I Wish to learn more about it.

Thank You.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Can you please provide additional material for above context. I Wish to learn more about it.

Thank You.

Read about how Gandhi fasted to force Ambedkar to agree to no reservation of seats for SCs during round table conference.

 

[Abhijat]

Read about how Gandhi fasted to force Ambedkar to agree to no reservation of seats for SCs during round table conference.

But , was it related to "trifurcation" of India ?

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

But , was it related to "trifurcation" of India ?

That is how Gandhi and others saw it then as a ploy to create permanent divide in Hindu society. Although, I am not sure it came up during partition discussions.

 

[Peter]

But , was it related to "trifurcation" of India ?

Yes, the British planned to trifurcate India by using our age old divisions. Gandhiji ,who was a great drama master, led a fast unto death to oppose the British plan of separate electorates for Harijans. It was probably the only wise decision he took in his life of debauchery and deceit. Netaji had already dreamt of a caste-less,classless India long before our fake Mahatma.

You should check out the Poona pact.

Separate electorates can be seen as an euphemism for the separate homeland for the Dalits. .

 

[Peter]

A balkanized India would have served no good for the lower castes. All Indians would have been slaves of the Great Powers like USA,UK,Russia and France. The mini-states would have been fought among themselves and acted as vassal states to the great powers. This would have been far worse from discrimination meted out by some upper castes in certain parts of India. Fortunately in Bengal we never had a strict caste system.