The Pride Of Pakistan Gets No Respect

Discussion in 'Subcontinent & Central Asia' started by average american, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. average american

    average american Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Pride Of Pakistan Gets No Respect
    by James Dunnigan
    December 10, 2012
    China has agreed to help Pakistan find export customers for its Al Khalid tank. Pakistan developed this tank with Chinese help and began equipping Pakistani Army units with it back in 2001. But export sales have been scarce. Only Sri Lanka agreed to buy, and only 22 tanks, and that deal has yet to be finalized. Meanwhile China has sold several hundred of its version of the Al Khalid (the MBT-2000) to Morocco and Bangladesh.
    It wasn’t supposed to work out this way. Pakistan, after all, has more recent experience in mechanized warfare. In fact, China has not fought a major campaign in over fifty years and only two minor ones (mountain warfare with India in the 1960s) and some border battles in the jungles with Vietnam (in 1979). China has done some air and naval skirmishing with the Taiwanese but nothing as intense as what the Pakistanis have gone through as recently as 1999 (another mountain battle, with India). China has more money and industrial infrastructure than Pakistan, and this has helped Pakistan build up its military-industrial capabilities.

    Back in the 1980s, when the two countries began this co-production deal, apparently they believed that Pakistan's stature in the Moslem world would provide a marketing advantage. Alas, the end of the Cold War, plus the spectacular performance of U.S. weapons in the 1991 Gulf War, made "cheap and simple" a much harder sell, especially if it was based on Russian designs. The end result is that China is getting some more arms exports because it is better at making sales. Pakistan has not been a total loser, as they have been able to build up its arms production capability.

    Meanwhile, China is now offering a new tank, the MBT 3000, for export. The Chinese Army will begin receiving the MBT 3000 in two years. The 3000 appears to be a MBT 2000 with a slightly more powerful engine, more armor, improved suspension and running gear, and better electronics. While none of the individual changes is radical or greatly improved over MBT 2000, the total number of improvements is substantial.

    The Chinese MBT 2000 (also known as the VT1A) tank is an export model of the Chinese Type 98/99. The MBT 2000 also looks similar to the Type 90/Al Khalid. The Type 98/99/90/MBT-2000 vehicles are all "improved T-72s." There were a lot of improvements, though many of them similar to what's found in the Russian T-80UM2. The workmanship on these vehicles is a little better than on the T-80UM2 but the Chinese don't have as much experience building tanks. This has shown itself in the numerous technical glitches that have shown up.

    The basic T-72 design has been around for over 30 years and has proved reliable, although not particularly effective, on the battlefield. That was mostly due to poor crews. The Chinese have moved to volunteer crews and more intensive training, which make any tank more effective. The MBT 2000 is a 49 ton tank with a 125mm gun and a three man crew (plus an autoloader). The MBT 3000 weight only goes up to 51 tons but overall performance and reliability is greatly improved.
     
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  3. sukhish

    sukhish Senior Member Senior Member

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    it is actually a pride of china, instead of pakistan
     
  4. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Export of 22 Al khalid is still on hold and might be signed in 2015 to sri lanka

    Beside this Pak also got the profit share of 44 mbt-2000 export to bangladesh as per chinese member in pdf because the MOU was signed very recently in ideas 2012 and the Basic mbt-2000 variant was exported to bangladesh nt the vt-1 variant

    our official dnt know how to export al khalid.almost a done deal with KSA cancelled.

    jordan is one another serious candidates.and sultan also confirmed that one al khalid was also shipped to jordan for this evaluation purpose in jordan terrain/enviroment

    HIT has recently also secured order for Mohafiz III with RCWS from Bangladesh,sri lanka and nigeria

    already exported to iraq as well
     
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  5. musalman

    musalman پاکستان زنده باد

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    Farhan you do not have to answer every thing they post. They are posting coz they are irritated :) when u post back they make fun :) So let them be irritated. Once some one told Ghalib that so and so person says bad things about you, aren't you gonna answer back. He said ' Aghar gadha aap ko dulati maray ga tu jawab mai aap us ko dulati tu nahi mar saktay. "
     
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  6. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    hehehe i know
     
  7. Apollyon

    Apollyon Führer Senior Member

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    You know what the funny thing is, you people never gives the link to prove your talk/assertion :). The day you start proving your point with credible sources, everyone will stop making fun of you people.

    And what makes you think "They are posting because they are irritated, when u post back they make fun", taking pride in this too ? :rotflmao::rofl::pound:
     
  8. mki

    mki Regular Member

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    Ghalib bevakuf tha..... ki usne esa javab diya...

    but we indians are smart... gadha aagar hame dulati maray to ham use dulati nahi marte ham usko danda marte hai....... jese ham aabhi pakistan aur aap dono ko mar rahe hai..... :taunt1:
     
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  9. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    Is the tank rugged enough?
    Pakistan should try the African market for it.
    Other than that, there would be fierce competition and less footing to hold in terms of the market share.
     
  10. Apollyon

    Apollyon Führer Senior Member

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    What you think about Al-Khalid Tank, a brief analysis from you ? @Damian :hail:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  11. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    we do have export customer in hands.
    bt the problem is like china we dnt have money to export arms on soft loan.the deal is expected to be signed in future

    beside this there are more good news of al khalid upgraded variant from ideas 2012.such as the 1400-1500hp engine for AK1(nt to be confused with ak2) and ak1 weight upto 52tonnes(excludding ERA??)

     
  12. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Second best after T-80UD in Pakistan arsenal, at least when it comes to armor protection. It is not the best design, but in the same time, it can't be underestimated.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  13. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    how good is t-80ud when compared with the upgraded al khalid I?

    beside this as per pakistani official statement Al khalid is considered superior to t-80ud.
     
  14. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Dunno, but these T-80UD's that Pakistan have are not standard ones, you got Object 478BE not 478B, which means that protection is closer to the even more superior T-84 Oplot series.

    You know, there is truth, and there is national propaganda, pride etc.
     
  15. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    AL khalid development has involvement of ukrainian as well.such as in the armour.

    T-80UD might have a better designed turret.i agree

    bt areas where Al khalid outclass t-80uD are

    *better FCS/GCS
    *better Thermal imagers(AK1 has sagem matis)
    *Better naiza 2 round with much better penetration power
    *comparable gun
    *IBMS
    *Ak1 with much thickened side skirts
    *Full electric turret control
    *solid state autoloader


    the only advantage of T-80ud over Al khalid is better designed turret
     
  16. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    i still dnt know why if we were to get should have got t-84 instead of t-80ud and that too under TOT because 320 tank order is nt a small order
     
  17. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    You can allways purchase T-84M vel BM "Oplot", it should be superior to both T-80UD and Al Khalid in probably every single aspect, maybe besides thermal sights.
     
  18. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    no doubt Oplot is a good tank

    bt i dnt think pakistan will exercise ever for any other tank than al khalid and its future variants

    HIT official in ideas 2012 has confirmed that too pakdef member that ak2 will enter service within 3-4 years and has already been in prototypes stages
     
  19. natarajan

    natarajan Senior Member Senior Member

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    what about selling to al-queada,taliban ,hamas etc you would surely sell atleast 500 units,you can give some discount for war for jihad
     

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