The Pride Of Pakistan Gets No Respect

average american

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The Pride Of Pakistan Gets No Respect
by James Dunnigan
December 10, 2012
China has agreed to help Pakistan find export customers for its Al Khalid tank. Pakistan developed this tank with Chinese help and began equipping Pakistani Army units with it back in 2001. But export sales have been scarce. Only Sri Lanka agreed to buy, and only 22 tanks, and that deal has yet to be finalized. Meanwhile China has sold several hundred of its version of the Al Khalid (the MBT-2000) to Morocco and Bangladesh.
It wasn't supposed to work out this way. Pakistan, after all, has more recent experience in mechanized warfare. In fact, China has not fought a major campaign in over fifty years and only two minor ones (mountain warfare with India in the 1960s) and some border battles in the jungles with Vietnam (in 1979). China has done some air and naval skirmishing with the Taiwanese but nothing as intense as what the Pakistanis have gone through as recently as 1999 (another mountain battle, with India). China has more money and industrial infrastructure than Pakistan, and this has helped Pakistan build up its military-industrial capabilities.

Back in the 1980s, when the two countries began this co-production deal, apparently they believed that Pakistan's stature in the Moslem world would provide a marketing advantage. Alas, the end of the Cold War, plus the spectacular performance of U.S. weapons in the 1991 Gulf War, made "cheap and simple" a much harder sell, especially if it was based on Russian designs. The end result is that China is getting some more arms exports because it is better at making sales. Pakistan has not been a total loser, as they have been able to build up its arms production capability.

Meanwhile, China is now offering a new tank, the MBT 3000, for export. The Chinese Army will begin receiving the MBT 3000 in two years. The 3000 appears to be a MBT 2000 with a slightly more powerful engine, more armor, improved suspension and running gear, and better electronics. While none of the individual changes is radical or greatly improved over MBT 2000, the total number of improvements is substantial.

The Chinese MBT 2000 (also known as the VT1A) tank is an export model of the Chinese Type 98/99. The MBT 2000 also looks similar to the Type 90/Al Khalid. The Type 98/99/90/MBT-2000 vehicles are all "improved T-72s." There were a lot of improvements, though many of them similar to what's found in the Russian T-80UM2. The workmanship on these vehicles is a little better than on the T-80UM2 but the Chinese don't have as much experience building tanks. This has shown itself in the numerous technical glitches that have shown up.

The basic T-72 design has been around for over 30 years and has proved reliable, although not particularly effective, on the battlefield. That was mostly due to poor crews. The Chinese have moved to volunteer crews and more intensive training, which make any tank more effective. The MBT 2000 is a 49 ton tank with a 125mm gun and a three man crew (plus an autoloader). The MBT 3000 weight only goes up to 51 tons but overall performance and reliability is greatly improved.
 

farhan_9909

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Export of 22 Al khalid is still on hold and might be signed in 2015 to sri lanka

Beside this Pak also got the profit share of 44 mbt-2000 export to bangladesh as per chinese member in pdf because the MOU was signed very recently in ideas 2012 and the Basic mbt-2000 variant was exported to bangladesh nt the vt-1 variant

our official dnt know how to export al khalid.almost a done deal with KSA cancelled.

jordan is one another serious candidates.and sultan also confirmed that one al khalid was also shipped to jordan for this evaluation purpose in jordan terrain/enviroment

HIT has recently also secured order for Mohafiz III with RCWS from Bangladesh,sri lanka and nigeria

already exported to iraq as well
 

musalman

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Farhan you do not have to answer every thing they post. They are posting coz they are irritated :) when u post back they make fun :) So let them be irritated. Once some one told Ghalib that so and so person says bad things about you, aren't you gonna answer back. He said ' Aghar gadha aap ko dulati maray ga tu jawab mai aap us ko dulati tu nahi mar saktay. "
 

farhan_9909

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Farhan you do not have to answer every thing they post. They are posting coz they are irritated :) when u post back they make fun :) So let them be irritated. Once some one told Ghalib that so and so person says bad things about you, aren't you gonna answer back. He said ' Aghar gadha aap ko dulati maray ga tu jawab mai aap us ko dulati tu nahi mar saktay. "
hehehe i know
 

Apollyon

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Farhan you do not have to answer every thing they post. They are posting coz they are irritated :) when u post back they make fun :) So let them be irritated. Once some one told Ghalib that so and so person says bad things about you, aren't you gonna answer back. He said ' Aghar gadha aap ko dulati maray ga tu jawab mai aap us ko dulati tu nahi mar saktay. "
You know what the funny thing is, you people never gives the link to prove your talk/assertion :). The day you start proving your point with credible sources, everyone will stop making fun of you people.

And what makes you think "They are posting because they are irritated, when u post back they make fun", taking pride in this too ? :rotflmao::rofl::pound:
 

mki

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Farhan you do not have to answer every thing they post. They are posting coz they are irritated :) when u post back they make fun :) So let them be irritated. Once some one told Ghalib that so and so person says bad things about you, aren't you gonna answer back. He said ' Aghar gadha aap ko dulati maray ga tu jawab mai aap us ko dulati tu nahi mar saktay. "
Ghalib bevakuf tha..... ki usne esa javab diya...

but we indians are smart... gadha aagar hame dulati maray to ham use dulati nahi marte ham usko danda marte hai....... jese ham aabhi pakistan aur aap dono ko mar rahe hai..... :taunt1:
 

Virendra

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Is the tank rugged enough?
Pakistan should try the African market for it.
Other than that, there would be fierce competition and less footing to hold in terms of the market share.
 

Apollyon

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What you think about Al-Khalid Tank, a brief analysis from you ? @Damian :hail:
 
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farhan_9909

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Is the tank rugged enough?
Pakistan should try the African market for it.
Other than that, there would be fierce competition and less footing to hold in terms of the market share.
we do have export customer in hands.
bt the problem is like china we dnt have money to export arms on soft loan.the deal is expected to be signed in future

beside this there are more good news of al khalid upgraded variant from ideas 2012.such as the 1400-1500hp engine for AK1(nt to be confused with ak2) and ak1 weight upto 52tonnes(excludding ERA??)

Sri Lanka buying Al-Khalid Tanks from Pakistan [/SIZE]

Enhanced defence cooperation between Pakistan and Sri Lanka is likely to be finalised during Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari's three-day official visit to Sri Lanka, later this month.

Diplomatic and government sources said that there was a wide scope for enhanced military ties between the two nations and it would be explored during talks between Zardari and his Sri Lankan counterpart, President Mahinda Rajapaksa.

"With the defeat of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), the nature as well as scope of defence cooperation is bound to change somewhat, but in a broader sense it would include military training, intelligence sharing, arms supplies, etc.

Pakistan has already proposed a futuristic defence cooperation agreement. As one of the largest suppliers of high-tech military equipment, Pakistan played an important role in assisting Sri Lanka defeat the LTTE," source said.

Pakistan is said to have the largest conventional arms and ordnance facility, which provides several varieties of armaments for export. These include infantry weapons, anti-aircraft and artillery ammunition, tank and aircraft ammunition, rockets and aerial bombs.

"The shopping list included 22 Al-Khalid tanks worth US$ 100 million and weaponry totalling about US$ 65 million. The inventory for the army was worth US$ 25 million and US$ 40 million for the Air Force. 250,000 rounds of mortar ammunition costing US$ 25 million and 150,000 hand grenades were also purchased.

Last year one ship weaponry loads was sent to Sri Lanka every 12 days to bolster the assault on the LTTE's headquarters in Killinochchi," he said.

Talks between Zadari and Rajapaksa, would also cover trade, investment, economic cooperation, tourism, culture and media, the sources said.

The Island
 

Damian

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What you think about Al-Khalid Tank, a brief analysis from you ? @Damian :hail:
Second best after T-80UD in Pakistan arsenal, at least when it comes to armor protection. It is not the best design, but in the same time, it can't be underestimated.
 
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farhan_9909

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Second best after T-80UD in Pakistan arsenal, at least when it comes to armor protection. It is not the best design, but in the same time, it can't be underestimated.
how good is t-80ud when compared with the upgraded al khalid I?

beside this as per pakistani official statement Al khalid is considered superior to t-80ud.
 

Damian

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how good is t-80ud when compared with the upgraded al khalid I?
Dunno, but these T-80UD's that Pakistan have are not standard ones, you got Object 478BE not 478B, which means that protection is closer to the even more superior T-84 Oplot series.

beside this as per pakistani official statement Al khalid is considered superior to t-80ud.
You know, there is truth, and there is national propaganda, pride etc.
 

farhan_9909

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Dunno, but these T-80UD's that Pakistan have are not standard ones, you got Object 478BE not 478B, which means that protection is closer to the even more superior T-84 Oplot series.



You know, there is truth, and there is national propaganda, pride etc.
AL khalid development has involvement of ukrainian as well.such as in the armour.

T-80UD might have a better designed turret.i agree

bt areas where Al khalid outclass t-80uD are

*better FCS/GCS
*better Thermal imagers(AK1 has sagem matis)
*Better naiza 2 round with much better penetration power
*comparable gun
*IBMS
*Ak1 with much thickened side skirts
*Full electric turret control
*solid state autoloader


old Al-Khalid...

IBMS
Digital com systems
It uses a data-link to facilitate secure communication of battlefield information between units, including tank video footage and information from unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV)
UAV conectivity=HIT
Advanced western digital fire-control system
3rd gen imagery systems=Sagem
NBC
GPS or some other advanced system=not known to me!
Jammers and sensors=HIT,Ukraine
Pakistani DU round, the Naiza 125 mm DU round (armor penetration: 550 mm in RHA at 2 km
HEAT-FS
HE-FS
APFSDS
Ukrainian 125mm Gun=produced by HIT
ATGM=
Gun-launched, laser-guided anti-tank guided missiles can also be launched the Russian-designed 9M119 Refleks and the Ukrainian designed Combat,modified in Pakistan to incorporate a larger warhead.
muzzle reference system
dual-axis stabilization system.
electro-hydraulic power drives
24-round ready-to-fire magazine
Load and fire at a rate of eight rounds per minute.
dual magnification day sight=Western
panoramic sight for all-around independent surveillance=Western
Both sights are dual-axis image stabilized and have independent laser range-finders.





Al-Khalid-I

Courtesy Nabil-05 at PDF


AK-1 does have active protection system imported from Ukraine and integrated in HIT and it is now a standard fit on AK-1 by the name of VARTA (guards). Other changes are...
Sagem Matis TI (3rd Gen)
Turret control all electric instead of semi-electric previously
Increased ammunition to 49 rounds (main gun)
new ballistic computer with new sensors
Second Generation IBMS (indigenous)
Indigenous ERA along with composite armor (750 mm turret thickness without ERA) more than 1100 mm with ERA
Main gun improved based on Ukrainian KBA 125 series previously, now completely modified and built in HIT facility with increased accuracy, barrel life and range.
Improved suspension with hydraulic assistance more than previous version.
Much higher automation and protection for crew, new NBC developed indigenously, tracks, thicker side skirts. Better cooling for crew comfort, also a new DU shell developed based on French and Korean shells with higher penetrations at POF.
Improved autoloader with electric control.
the only advantage of T-80ud over Al khalid is better designed turret
 

farhan_9909

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i still dnt know why if we were to get should have got t-84 instead of t-80ud and that too under TOT because 320 tank order is nt a small order
 

Damian

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You can allways purchase T-84M vel BM "Oplot", it should be superior to both T-80UD and Al Khalid in probably every single aspect, maybe besides thermal sights.
 

farhan_9909

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You can allways purchase T-84M vel BM "Oplot", it should be superior to both T-80UD and Al Khalid in probably every single aspect, maybe besides thermal sights.
no doubt Oplot is a good tank

bt i dnt think pakistan will exercise ever for any other tank than al khalid and its future variants

HIT official in ideas 2012 has confirmed that too pakdef member that ak2 will enter service within 3-4 years and has already been in prototypes stages
 

natarajan

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what about selling to al-queada,taliban ,hamas etc you would surely sell atleast 500 units,you can give some discount for war for jihad
 

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