The One Party State

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Yusuf, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I had the misfortune to view a video clip recently where a lady previously of the fame of wandering about in the moral wilderness of our public parks outdid herself with a new low. The clip displays her along with a clerical gentleman converting a Hindu Sunil to a Muslim Abdullah. The young boy in rehearsed although frazzled manner is making the transition into the folds of Islam. I have nothing against people changing religion from free will in a private affair, yet the message sent to an already beleaguered Hindu community is loud and visible — we do not like you as you are but will spare you if you cross over to the right path. There is everything cheap and pathetic about the display. One almost hopes that the mediocre pretentious woman tells us again in broken tones that the boy was a hired actor. She, with this display of cruel idiocy, has also upped the ante in the clerical racket in the television business, I fear, if the fake doctor is planning on a live execution of a non-Muslim to compete in the ratings now.
    Imagine if you will that in a television programme in the United States, India or any place in the world, a Muslim Abdullah was converted to a Hindu Sunil. That would be as stupid as what Maya Khan did yet imagine our reaction. It would not have been merely silly, it would have a frontal assault, a grand conspiracy, it would have been an attack on Islam itself, jihad would have been the cry. Lahore and Karachi would have burned; Bar Councils would have announced strikes, Hindu and Christian places of worship all over the country would have been set ablaze, a dozen or so killed for good measure. Some cleric with extra cash would have announced a meaty reward for killing the newly converted, the host, their neighbours and their dogs, etc. This apparently is a one-way street, almost like the words of Hotel California, “you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave”. Before embarking on these expeditions of piousness, it is worth reflecting on the golden principle of antiquity, which dictates do unto others what you would have them do to you.
    I can imagine the Hindus and other minority communities becoming edgy when someone like the impeccable Justice Rana Bhagwandas says that the Constitution makes non-Muslims “less-preferred citizens”. In fact, I will not be surprised if they do not merely become edgy but are in a state of outright frenzied panic. This comes from a gentleman who rose to become the senior-most judge of the Supreme Court; it is frightening to ponder about the feelings of ordinary non-Muslims. My Lord, Justice Bhagwandas uses very serene language as is his temperament in employing the term “less preferred” as opposed to- being outrightly discriminated and often-times hunted. No non-Muslim is allowed to become the president of the country as stipulated by the Constitution or even the prime minister as the oath requires affirming the basic tenets of Islam. So basically the coercive mechanism is already in place for nudging them or perhaps, more accurately shoving them to convert, without Maya Khan making more of a fool out of herself (if that is possible) on national television.
    It has been said that personal faith is like some other things, it is very good to have one, quite natural to be proud of it, try not to make a public exhibition of it and whatever you do, don’t shove it down the throats of our children.
    Published in The Express Tribune, July 29th, 2012.

    The One Party State – The Express Tribune
     
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  3. Agnostic Muslim

    Agnostic Muslim Regular Member

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    A horrible spectacle.

    As I argued in response to a question (What is the biggest problem of Pakistan?) posed by a new member elsewhere:

    To respect all human beings and treat them equally, regardless or race, ethnicity or religion:

    1. Forget social prejudices, we have legalized discrimination and intolerance of a particular faith, the Ahmadis
    2. We are a patriarchal society where women are treated like second class citizens in many parts of the country
    3. We love to trumpet our faith in everyone's face (note the Maya Khan conversion of a Hindu to Islam on TV) while ignoring the fact that those of other faith's could believe as strongly in their faith as we do in ours, and that they would find such behavior just as offensive as we would were it non-Muslims trumpeting their faith in our faces and converting Muslims to their religion 'live on TV'

    The list goes on, but for a start, do you think the above are issues that Pakistan should fix, and what would your suggestions be?
     
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  4. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    I don't want Pakistan to fix itself, because that will make it a bigger enemy of India. No matter how much does Pakistan moderate itself, but the foundation over which it was built will still be there that is the Two-Nation-Theory "Hindus and Muslims cannot live as a one nation".
     
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  5. Agnostic Muslim

    Agnostic Muslim Regular Member

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    What does that have to do with India?

    It's more of an internal dissonance that Pakistan has to come to terms with, given that millions of non-Muslims live in Pakistan.
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    It is the religious duty of Abrahamic religions to convert non believers.

    One cannot blame the zealots doing the same, especially in countries where their religion and society is the law and there is very little recourse to civil law, human rights or justice.

    In their religious zeal, some get carried away and make a spectacle and a carnival of this religious duty.

    What one saw on the Pakistani TV was totally crass and crude with the woman anchor and the Maulavi making a total mockery of the solemn event (if indeed it was voluntary and not through coercing or through allurement).

    It is so obvious that all this circus was to show to all that these two poor specimens of humanity were ever so true and pious Mussalman that they could convert a person just in a jiffy during a short TV show!

    I am afraid these are the type of juvenile acts that show Islam in poor light as if it were a carnival and also gets the back up of those who are not Muslim.

    As it is Islam is at the centre of a storm. These acts displayed with dramatics will only drive Islam further into the corner.
     
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  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Demography of Pakistan

    Muslims: 181,723,000
    Christians: 2,700,000 (approx. 1.8%)[43]
    Hindus: 1,800,000 (approx. 1.3%[39])
    Buddhists: 50,000
    Sikhs: 30,000
    Zoroastrian/Parsis: 25,000 (many are undocumented migrants from Iran)
    Jews: 200
     
  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Sir,

    I would not say that about Judaism. They are very selective about whom they accept in their fold.
     
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  9. Agnostic Muslim

    Agnostic Muslim Regular Member

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    Which brings up an interesting argument, that there 'selectivity' is almost akin to the 'racial purity of the Aryan race' that the Nazi's subscribed to.
     
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  10. ani82v

    ani82v Senior Member Senior Member

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    Murga gir jaye to kya hua, taang fir bhi oonchi hi rehti hai. :)) :)) :))
     
  11. Agnostic Muslim

    Agnostic Muslim Regular Member

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    Sorry, but I didn't quite get what you meant by the adage ....
     
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  12. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I wouldn't assume 'selectivity' necessarily means 'racial selectivity.'
     
  13. Agnostic Muslim

    Agnostic Muslim Regular Member

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    No, but it is nonetheless a form of selectivity based on an arbitrary parameter that intends to ensure some sort of 'purity':

    ...
    The rabbis -- including members of the Rabbinical Council of America, the Orthodox Union, Yeshiva University and the International Rabbinic Fellowship -- were caught off guard by an article in the New York Jewish Week that said the ministry had empowered Israel's Chief Rabbinate to scrutinize the Jewishness of Orthodox converts.
    ...

    The Rabbinate automatically recognizes only those conversions performed by special conversion courts in a handful of large, established Jewish communities.

    "One must differentiate between Halacha (Jewish law) and the Law of Return," Sharansky said, referring to the immigration law that permits overseas converts from various streams as well as anyone who can prove they had a Jewish grandparent to immigrate.

    ...

    U.S. Rabbis Blast Israel Over Immigration Policy For Converts
     
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  14. Zarvin

    Zarvin Regular Member

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    Let me be the third Muslim on here to condemn such behaviour(or 2 1/2 depending on Agnostic_Muslim).
    If you want to privately convert to any religion, then that is fine. No need to make a show of it and coerce people.
     
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  15. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Actors of Soap opera, comedy and self appointed social reformer's shows etc have suddenly turned to Namazi topi wearing and hear covered/hijab wearing Muslims; not otherwise.

    Religion sells on TV everywhere these days with other things, why one should complaint.

    ...........................

    Agonist Muslim :What does that have to do with India?

    It's more of an internal dissonance that Pakistan has to come to terms with, given that millions of non-Muslims live in Pakistan.



    It's a fault line which not only discourages peaceful co existence but carves out a particular attitude/mentality as well.

    Two nation theory means Pakistan's population will always hate Hindus i.e. 80% population of India which is counter productive to any peace process/effort.

    Pakistanis think that they can abuse Hindus and still go away with it because India is weak flexible secular state. In a show running these days in India (Laugh India Laugh) there are couple of Pakistani stage artists participating who have been abusing Hindus regularly on their stage shows. Its a shame that we have allowed them to enter in India and proved they are right that they can still go away with it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  16. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Ansar Burney to sue Maya Khan over live conversion stint on live | NewsPakistan.PK

    One thing that I did not understand , what does Mr.Burney mean by
     
  17. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    My first suggestion would be what you have already displayed here... an honest assessment and discussions of the problems at hand. Unfortunately most of it will get drowned by nationalist poo flinging... but you have taken the first step nonetheless.

    Given the ridiculousness of this incident there really isn't much I can say. I do however think that this is yet another example of a far bigger problem of institutionalized intolerance. Here's my (not entirely informed) take on the matter.

    1. Legalized discrimination: This really is rate limiting step in the equation needed to resolve the complex social issues in Pakistan. When the government itself is complicit in perpetrating virulent policies of discrimination pretty much all hope is lost. I truly believe that the only way this problem will get resolved (actually this applies to virtually all of Pakistan's problems) is if there's a concerted movement from the entire establishment (which is highly fractionalized) to jettison these archaic rules and all other self defeating policies. This of course will be no easy task considering what happened to Salman Taseer.

    2. As John Lennon aptly put it... "woman is the ni**er of the world." The default setting among human societies is the subjugation of women. This no doubt is a very complex issue and there is no clear cut solution. Misogyny as I'm sure you've noticed transcends social status, education level or wealth in South Asia. Now clearly a higher level of education and financial independence of women is a step in the right direction, but it has to be coupled with the willingness to abdicate many religious and fundamental societal pre conceived notions.

    3. This faith trumpeting phenomenon has paralyzed the entire Muslim world. I feel that Islam has become a crutch to compensate for the lack of real institutions required to maintain law and order; institutions which require a lot of time and effort to build. Without a functional system providing safety and justice, frustrated and/or hapless citizens are fooled by charlatan clerics into believing that the answer to all their problems is in a book, and all they have to do is abide to the strict code of Islam (as interpreted by said clerics of course). But clearly this is counter productive because subjugating women, cutting off the hands of thieves, stoning adulterers and impromptu executions don't really achieve the required safety net of a functional system of law and order. The eventual outcome instead becomes further cultural regression, increased chauvinism, intolerance, violence and idiotic public displays of conversion on national television.
     
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