The left is always right

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Sakal Gharelu Ustad, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Why is left always right in political discourse?

    I raise the above question to understand why the leftist economic and political discourse always occupies a moral high-ground in debates in India as well as in many other places? For eg. , leftist are seen as pro-poor, environment saviors, champions of individual rights, assimilating etc. While in most places wherever left took a foothold in this and past century its actions always gave diametrically opposite results to what they claim in media reports.

    While the proponents of leftist ideology might argue that the governments which took power using left ideology and claimed to be Socialists/communists etc. were not true socialists/communists. But neither do we have perfect liberalism and capitalism anywhere, but these systems do not degrade themselves to such an extent. So lets not argue about what perfect socialism/communism because if we believe history these systems are not even feasible anyway.

    Coming back to the main question of this thread, why left sells so well? Why does India always pursue economic reforms through stealth? I could think of certain points:

    1) Oversupply of JNU style intellectuals in India from the time of Nehru who gave them political support
    2) Failure of right wing people to clearly articulate themselves. For eg. I am always right:taunt:, but that does not mean I like seeing poor people or that I do not want to contribute to society. So is the left more articulate than the right?
    3) Network of left wing intellectuals who also claim to be liberals and refuse entry of anyone in the league who disagree with them. This can mean media as well as academics.
    4) Common people are naive who buy ideas of free food, TV etc more easily than asking for better governance

    So, lets discuss the various issues with this phenomenon pervading India and the world. We should also discuss the reasons behind its existence, the various examples of self-proclaimed superiority of leftist arguments and anything you believe make sense to discuss. Please do not resort to ad-hominems and I would specially request pro-left leaning posters to make the debate interesting by replying back to the points raised, rather then make it a one-sided left bashing thread(because I know large number of DFIians are far right).
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
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  3. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    Because their arguments are always idealistic which makes them hard to be painted evil.

    When someone tries to show them the hard reality and how it is entirely different from their imagined utopia, they will be labelled as fascists, capitalists etc to shut down the opposers.
     
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  4. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    A small correction to the thread title - Left is always right, IN THEORY.


    ----

    Coming to the why part,

    Because their arguments are always idealistic and so full of morals that makes them hard to be painted evil even if what they propose is practically impossible

    When someone tries to show them the hard reality and how it is entirely different from their imagined utopia, they will be labelled as fascists, capitalists etc to shut down the opposers.

    For example when leftists propose a perfectly equal egalitarian society where resources are equally shared, the idea of it sounds very appealing and rosy but its practically impossible to achieve one such society. Stratification is a reality and when people try to point it out, the leftists immediately shout down the guy as one who condones discrimination.
     
  5. blank_quest

    blank_quest Senior Member Senior Member

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    Only way to beat the bush out of lef-etish is to question them like Socrates (Socratic Questioning) ,They can't tolerate their dumbness and will start yelling :pound:
     
  6. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    But then it means the right is not articulate enough to call their bluff.
     
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  7. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    Its not about being articulate..its about the policies. The leftist policies IN THEORY are so nice and flawless that it is almost impossible to argue against. And giving real world examples of how they dont work only furthers their idea that there is something wrong with the society that needs to be changed.
     
  8. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    But then how do you explain that the centre is so far to the right in the US(historically) when compared to other countries? People in US believe in just world theory where anyone can achieve the US dream by hardwork unlike say Europeans who think life is cruel and state needs to redistribute.

    So, now the question becomes how were the US politicians able to sell right for so long?
     
  9. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    I like to look at the examples a person uses to justify their argument, but in this case, the very premise of the argument is wrong. I admit that the left is not *always* right. However, the "left" is right most of the time, and if someone were to put a % to it, I would even say 80-90% of the time. The examples mentioned above can easily be applied to "rightists" as well, ranging from ideologues like Hitler and Mussolini to policies which sprang out of right-wing philosophy such as colonialism, discrimination based on gender, caste, race, sexual orientation, language, religion, social class and economic status to the propensity of waging war, exemplified by countries which propagate right wing thinking, ranging from Pakistan to the US.

    The story of the 19th and 20th centuries is the story of the relentless march of left-wing thinking, which is rooted in equality, liberalism, non-discrimination, opposition to colonialism, and the refrain of progress for everyone in the human race, and at the same time, the unstopped retreat of right-wing philosophy. While extremists can be found both on the left and right, left-wing extremism has only appeared on stage in the past two centuries, while right-wing extremism has been with us for practically thousands of years since the beginning of human civilization.

    All the Right has to offer to the people is eternal conflict, both with internal "enemies" who look different or talk different or follow a different religion, to external enemies in order to expand its influence under the guise of "nationalism".

    No wonder the Right is mostly wrong.
     
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  10. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Really?? Before arguing with you about historical origins of different inequalities in the society, I would like to ask- Who abolished the slavery in the US and why?
     
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  11. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    I don't know. Maybe you can elaborate by showing me how the answer to that question supports your argument.
     
  12. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    By the way watch Lincoln, its an amazing movie!
     
  13. afako

    afako Regular Member

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    All the -isms including Communism, Socialism, Marxism all are leftover of the Bankrupt Marxist Theology of the 19th Century.
     
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  14. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    Anyone who tries to define Indian right wing through the lenses of right wingers in Europe or America is an idiot.
     
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  15. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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  16. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Now you are claiming the Republicans were not right in 1860s!!
     
  17. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    Here's a history lesson:

    History: Democrats & Republican-Two Centuries of Role Reversal

    The Democrats and Republicans aren't even the same parties today that they were in the 1960's. Especially in terms of their economic policies.

    EDIT: Here's another: Before the 1960's, the Republican party was the party most black voters voted for. During Nixon's time, all that changed:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  18. blank_quest

    blank_quest Senior Member Senior Member

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    Marx was cleaver not because he developed Marxism but because people think Social Inequality as the effect of "Accumulation" of Wealth , so lets stop earning more and start earning less see if we can become all socially equal :pound:
     
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  19. blank_quest

    blank_quest Senior Member Senior Member

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    Whats the difference b/w earning and accumulation ? :notsure:
     
  20. blank_quest

    blank_quest Senior Member Senior Member

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    Please read this before discussing Liberal vs Conservatives :namaste:
     
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  21. blank_quest

    blank_quest Senior Member Senior Member

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    Can anyone tell why a Good Citizen can't be a Good Human being (not vice versa) ? :hmm:
     

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