The Indo-Pakistani War of 2019

Decklander

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The whole nuke doctrine has many scenerios which include death of political leadership and how the nuke command will work in such a situation. who will control the nuke trigeer and who will assume command is all very well laid down. I do not wish to share much on this open forum but indian political leadership will not be in Delhi but in some very very safe place with complete control of all assets on ground and in air and at sea. In any case, in case of nuke war with Pak, I do not envisage the battle to last more than 24 hrs. Pakistan will be decimated within that time.
 

t_co

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In 2019 if NAMO is PM of India, there will be no conventional war with Pak. It will start with Pre-emptive nuke strikes on Pakistan. The decision makers in India are now increasingly coming around to the point that as India grows militarily in conventional terms and the disparity with Pak grows in military terms, the nuke threshold of Pak will continue to come down and given their extremely bad financial and politico social condition, a so called limited conventional war for the purpose of punishing Pak wil inevitably cross the nuke threshold rather quickly. So any war with Pak must be started with nukes ready to take off the moment Pak leadership decides to go nuke. I have very very clear indications that this is the new doctrine of Indian armed forces vis-a-vis Pakistan.
Though the scenerio looks very close to being real, the outcome will be one sided in favour of India.
I had stated this even on the CSD thread that CSD has nuke option inbuilt into it and it has stated on many occassions that in case any nation tries to nuke India, the retaliation will be so massive that it will cease to exist.
Yashwant Sinha of BJP & BJP as a party have already openly started calling for nuke strikes on Pakistan and these demands were never denounced by Congress
It would be lovely if these persistent calls for nuclear strikes on a large recipient of US military aid were publicized whenever the Indo-US Nuclear Deal is mentioned in the US media...

Perhaps such calls for nuclear strikes against a Sunni Muslim nation can be repeated whenever an Indian delegation meets with the Saudis or Turks... hmmm...
 

t_co

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The whole nuke doctrine has many scenerios which include death of political leadership and how the nuke command will work in such a situation. who will control the nuke trigeer and who will assume command is all very well laid down. I do not wish to share much on this open forum but indian political leadership will not be in Delhi but in some very very safe place with complete control of all assets on ground and in air and at sea. In any case, in case of nuke war with Pak, I do not envisage the battle to last more than 24 hrs. Pakistan will be decimated within that time.
As will India. Pakistan has 90-110 nuclear warheads, and is adding a dozen or so each year. Pakistan's nuclear technology and delivery systems are on par with India's as well.

What nobody here seems to be understanding is that since India is engaged in this nuclear arms race with Pakistan, and India also tends to make noises against China from time to time, China could hint to India that the next time India complains or intrudes in the SCS, China will let Pakistan 'steal' road-mobile MIRV-capable IRBM technology, advanced penetration aids designed to defeat US ABM systems, and miniaturized thermonuclear warheads based off research acquired from the US Los Alamos laboratory (especially warheads modeled off the US W88, which is now China's stock-standard warhead model).

This would turn Pakistan's nuclear arsenal from a collection of inertially-guided 20-25kt warheads that take 30 minutes to hit, into a bunch of GPS/precision-guided 400-550kt warheads with multiple decoys per warhead that take less than 15 minutes to hit their targets, designed to defeat not just India's attempts at ABM but the real big boys of ABM, the US and Russia.

It's a huge point of strategic leverage against India, because India and Pakistan are both decades away from such technologies, and there's nothing India can do to stop it.

Given this fact, were I a rational Indian planner, I would be pursuing a disarmament treaty with Pakistan post-haste to rectify this vulnerability, but it seems that no Indian politician has the political courage to pursue such a course of action, and the BJP seems hell-bent on pursuing an alternate course of confrontation and blowing $$$ on doubling the manpower of the land army...
 
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t_co

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The larger point of this thought experiment is that India cannot get the peace it wants by bullying Pakistan; rather, such bullying tempts fate to dispense a few dozen megatons on India's largest cities. It is troubling, though, to see how many posters here seem to think otherwise, and how these hawkish sentiments are echoed by Indian political figures.
 
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t_co

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so the Chinese wet dream of fighting India to the last Pakistani is what you are saying?
Read the article, Ray. Where in it does it even mention China? China has nothing to do with India's issues with Pakistan. China only helps Pakistan defend itself. It is India's fault if India cannot help but try and bully its smaller neighbor over implicit sectarian reasons.
 

arnabmit

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:facepalm: you were talking sense till a while back... what happened suddenly?

Pakistan is like that little rascal who taunts & bullies everyone and then hide behind his huge big brother when anyone tries to retaliate.

Read the article, Ray. Where in it does it even mention China? China has nothing to do with India's issues with Pakistan. China only helps Pakistan defend itself. It is India's fault if India cannot help but try and bully its smaller neighbor over implicit sectarian reasons.
The larger point of this thought experiment is that India cannot get the peace it wants by bullying Pakistan; rather, such bullying tempts fate to dispense a few dozen megatons on India's largest cities. It is troubling, though, to see how many posters here seem to think otherwise, and how these hawkish sentiments are echoed by Indian political figures.
 

nrj

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Given this fact, were I a rational Indian planner, I would be pursuing a disarmament treaty with Pakistan post-haste to rectify this vulnerability, but it seems that no Indian politician has the political courage to pursue such a course of action, and the BJP seems hell-bent on pursuing an alternate course of confrontation and blowing $$$ on doubling the manpower of the land army...
Why would Pakistan disarm ? Why would India disarm ?

Too funny even for Member's corner.
 

Singh

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India should fire nukes on Saudis and China if there is a nuclear war with Pak.
If we are going down all countries that have supported Pak will go down


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 

CCTV

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India should fire nukes on Saudis and China if there is a nuclear war with Pak.
If we are going down all countries that have supported Pak will go down


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En, for your WWII era atomic bomb, you need a b-25 at least.

Before you say India have thermonuclear bomb, check the yieds of your nuclear tests.

If you don't have the thermonuclear tech, you need a huge bomb as " little boy" to get a max. 20kt yield.

Again, you need a bomber or a huge missile.

If you don't have those, how can you strike China?

Reality hurts.....
 

CCTV

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Nuclear tests are simulated using computing power today. Don't worry.



Agni 5/6. Heard of it ?
Think about the size of "little boy"......

Computer simulation ? Good luck.
 

nrj

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Think about the size of "little boy"......

Computer simulation ? Good luck.
Why go for little boy at all?

If India was going for outdated little boy design then it would have readied delivery platforms for the same simultaneously.

And Good luck to you too!
 

CCTV

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Why go for little boy at all?

If India was going for outdated little boy design then it would have readied delivery platforms for the same simultaneously.

And Good luck to you too!
It is the physic limit....
 

t_co

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India should fire nukes on Saudis and China if there is a nuclear war with Pak.
If we are going down all countries that have supported Pak will go down


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Ah, the Samson Doctrine.

The trouble is, if India does nuke Saudi Arabia, the United States will retaliate against India. Remember that, under the Carter Doctrine, the United States is obligated to treat aggression against a Persian Gulf state as aggression against itself.

And please remember that the nuclear arsenal of China is 3x larger from a raw warhead count, and over 15x larger when you factor in the higher average yield of the more advanced Chinese warhead designs (based off US W87 and W88 warheads). China might lose 20 million people and several major cities, but India would lose 200 million and lose several dozen major cities, as well as the vast majority of its military infrastructure. India would become a radioactive wasteland - and a global pariah state for nuking another country unprovoked. In that case, nobody would bat an eye if China decided to occupy India and loot its natural resources for reparations in that case, no matter how many nations have bad relations with China or good relations with India.

You simply do not unprovokedly nuke another country and expect to have any international soft power left.
 
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bose

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Ah, the Samson Doctrine.

The trouble is, if India does nuke Saudi Arabia, the United States will retaliate against India. Remember that, under the Carter Doctrine, the United States is obligated to treat aggression against a Persian Gulf state as aggression against itself.

And please remember that the nuclear arsenal of China is 3x larger from a raw warhead count, and over 15x larger when you factor in the higher average yield of the more advanced Chinese warhead designs (based off US W87 and W88 warheads). China might lose 20 million people and several major cities, but India would lose 200 million and lose several dozen major cities, as well as the vast majority of its military infrastructure. India would become a radioactive wasteland - and a global pariah state for nuking another country unprovoked. In that case, nobody would bat an eye if China decided to occupy India and loot its natural resources for reparations in that case, no matter how many nations have bad relations with China or good relations with India.

You simply do not unprovokedly nuke another country and expect to have any international soft power left.

First of all USA will not retaliate for any other third world country...

Secondly India have enough Fissile meterial to build nukes in very quick time, it is enough to take care all from Morroco to Malayasia...
 

DivineHeretic

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Ah, the Samson Doctrine.

The trouble is, if India does nuke Saudi Arabia, the United States will retaliate against India. Remember that, under the Carter Doctrine, the United States is obligated to treat aggression against a Persian Gulf state as aggression against itself.

And please remember that the nuclear arsenal of China is 3x larger from a raw warhead count, and over 15x larger when you factor in the higher average yield of the more advanced Chinese warhead designs (based off US W87 and W88 warheads). China might lose 20 million people and several major cities, but India would lose 200 million and lose several dozen major cities, as well as the vast majority of its military infrastructure. India would become a radioactive wasteland - and a global pariah state for nuking another country unprovoked. In that case, nobody would bat an eye if China decided to occupy India and loot its natural resources for reparations in that case, no matter how many nations have bad relations with China or good relations with India.

You simply do not unprovokedly nuke another country and expect to have any international soft power left.
There is a small problem with your theory. The Indian nuclear weapons program is a black hole for intelligence. Fact is CIA knows more about the nuclear activities of North Korea than they know about India.

Every estimate on India is a speculation, a pretty wild one at that. Another fact is that the first nuclear device was exploded in 1974, a full 24 years before Pakistan's first test, and 12 years before Pakistan began physically developing the bomb. Its rather weird, don't you think, that India even with a lead of 24 years would have less nukes than Pak. Not to mention that India has more reactors dedicated to military use than the Pakistanis have reactors?
 

Bhadra

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Ah, the Samson Doctrine.

The trouble is, if India does nuke Saudi Arabia, the United States will retaliate against India. Remember that, under the Carter Doctrine, the United States is obligated to treat aggression against a Persian Gulf state as aggression against itself.

And please remember that the nuclear arsenal of China is 3x larger from a raw warhead count, and over 15x larger when you factor in the higher average yield of the more advanced Chinese warhead designs (based off US W87 and W88 warheads). China might lose 20 million people and several major cities, but India would lose 200 million and lose several dozen major cities, as well as the vast majority of its military infrastructure. India would become a radioactive wasteland - and a global pariah state for nuking another country unprovoked. In that case, nobody would bat an eye if China decided to occupy India and loot its natural resources for reparations in that case, no matter how many nations have bad relations with China or good relations with India.

You simply do not unprovokedly nuke another country and expect to have any international soft power left.
I was under the impression that only Pakistanis are war mongers who flash their missiles and nukes at the drop of of the hat...

Here we find one Chini following Pakistanis.... well done.
 

t_co

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I was under the impression that only Pakistanis are war mongers who flash their missiles and nukes at the drop of of the hat...

Here we find one Chini following Pakistanis.... well done.
Bhadra, this was in response to Singh's desire to drag China and the Arab world down in nuclear hellfire in response to a Pakistani nuclear strike. This isn't warmongering, it's deterrence. There's a critical difference here.
 

Ray

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Read the article, Ray. Where in it does it even mention China? China has nothing to do with India's issues with Pakistan. China only helps Pakistan defend itself. It is India's fault if India cannot help but try and bully its smaller neighbor over implicit sectarian reasons.
Pakistan has never embarked on any war without the tacit backing of another powerful nation. Check each war.

The US or West is no longer the insurer for Pakistan.

It is only China which gives Pakistan Dutch Courage.
 

Ray

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Ah, the Samson Doctrine.

The trouble is, if India does nuke Saudi Arabia, the United States will retaliate against India. Remember that, under the Carter Doctrine, the United States is obligated to treat aggression against a Persian Gulf state as aggression against itself.

And please remember that the nuclear arsenal of China is 3x larger from a raw warhead count, and over 15x larger when you factor in the higher average yield of the more advanced Chinese warhead designs (based off US W87 and W88 warheads). China might lose 20 million people and several major cities, but India would lose 200 million and lose several dozen major cities, as well as the vast majority of its military infrastructure. India would become a radioactive wasteland - and a global pariah state for nuking another country unprovoked. In that case, nobody would bat an eye if China decided to occupy India and loot its natural resources for reparations in that case, no matter how many nations have bad relations with China or good relations with India.

You simply do not unprovokedly nuke another country and expect to have any international soft power left.
Very droll.

If China wants to occupy India, none will bat an eyelid!

Repatriation of natural resources!

Daydreams!
 

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