The Gujral Doctrine Killed Raw - time to revive RAW it in 2011

Discussion in 'Internal Security' started by A.V., May 6, 2011.

  1. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    Those who know operations will understand how the gujral doctrine killed RAWs strategic dept in 90s , after the osama killing , people in india have been calling for dawood and why not india do such a strike to get hold of its most wanted men.

    to start off we must make raw strong like before , because without strong intelligence support such missions are impossible , whats the new policy for RAW strengthening ?

    1. separate it form political control
    2. divide it into operations of target and scout, plan and execute divisions
    3. Win back trust of the lower net men
    4. Go for region work force or groups
    5. make its cash rich


    We need this and stop people from making another doctrine like IK gujral did .


     
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  3. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    but what can it be done, to even separate it from political leaders, it should be done again political leaders only, our present govt is using Intell to spy on opposition leaders more, less for security means and country............
     
  4. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    IB can handle the political things and internal use please revamp raw first and capabilities will increase five folds image where would the us be on osama operation had they a weak CIA , RAW is not weak it never was its priorities were messed up too often it needs to be streamlined
     
  5. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    R&AW has been killed twice, first time it happened during Morarji Desai's government, reason was R&AW had been politicized by Indira Gandhi's government. We need to strengthen this organization, but we must be cautious, it must not follow ISI's path. Nothing must be beyond civilian control, which means "political control". In USA competent and experienced people have traditionally held the key portfolios, in India...well.....less said the better.
     
  6. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    What's the use? MMS will pull another Gujral and we'll be back to 1i
     
  7. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    Can someone clarify who is Gujral and what he did that killed RAW?
     
  8. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    I.K. Gujral the prime minister of India in the 90's . during his time he abandoned all operations of RAW in the immediate neighbourhood including pakistan , abandoning all operations midway with no directions for future . and details can be found in the RAW doctrine of the 90s
     
  9. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    Could we please have some insight as to what prompted Gujral to close down R&AW ops. Some links or sources would be a nice read.
     
  10. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yeah it is high time we had formidable R&AW. The GoI should get in some clever guys into R&AW. Can anyone in the DFI tsuggest any names of people who are capable of doing a good work if given a chance to control and handle R&AW.........
     
  11. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    What makes you guys think R&AW is closed and ineffective?Isn't the whole point of an intelligence agency to appear closed and ineffective?
     
  12. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    BR, capabilities got severely eroded and I don't think we have got up there since. Else we could have bumped off the ones we want.
     
  13. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Bumping off anybody, is always a decision that is taken on a political level rather than on a intelligence/military level. The problem does not lie within RAW so much as it lies in the divisive and slow decision making at the ministerial core.
     
  14. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Agreed but political decision can be made only if the capability exists.
     
  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Gujral is very fond of Gajar ke Halwa.

    I believe the ones in Pakistan are the best!
     
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  16. Tronic

    Tronic Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Yusuf, in converse, capability can exist if the political will exists.

    I do not think that RAW is still on the ground licking its wounds since the 90s. Its been more than a decade, and I'm sure RAW has re-built. Don't expect them to advertise though.

    It is the political will which is at fault, though a lot more probably changed after the 26/11 attacks and the subsequent ministerial talks on how to avenge the attacks. A lot more will probably change after this Osama raid.

    I believe RAW has been building up, if not before, than atleast ever since Kargil. The only thing remaining now is the political trigger. That too however, we wouldn't know the whole truth. I truly pray that the Pakistani reports of Indian involvement in Balochistan are true. And listening to some of their analysts, we may have some contact, though I doubt arms supplying, but contact in Balochistan I do believe we have.


    p.s.: btw, people also forget here, there were 2 things which severely eroded RAW's capabilities. IK Gujral was one; the Babri Masjid demolition was the other thing after which RAW lost a significant amount of pro-India contacts and sources within Pakistan, and even Afghanistan.
     
  17. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Let RAW continue all what its doing.

    SFF is very much capable, if to start marking India's most wanted list. Extend the range they operate within & behind enemy lines.

    --

    I'll be blaming Morarji Desai than Gujral, the way he degraded RAW's power & judgments on Nuclear doctrine of this state.
     
  18. Sikh_warrior

    Sikh_warrior Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    i thought it were the mangoes!

    well on a serious note, we need to re-activate RAW bench for pak.

    in 1987-88, IPKF went into jafna in SL and used intel and maps provided by RAW, which were useless and old.

    we lost many good boys out there.

    RAW needs to revamp and pull up their socks if we seriously need to get real time intel from with in pak and POK.
     
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