The Great Challenge: China, Russia

pmaitra

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HMS...West does not have balls to attack India.
Where did i mention that the west wants to attack India? are you nuts? :bplease:
The west will not attack India directly, but they will continue arm Pakistan to keep India's progress in check, just like they have been doing since 1947. I can assure you, @prohumanity is not nuts, except that he did not clarify his position enough.
 
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no smoking

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Isn´t that what china did 500 years ago? Didnt they have the greatest Navy ever be seen in the world, yet they turned inwards?
The chinese economic model of 500 years ago didn't require external market/resources, so this "greatest navy"provided little economic benefit to the country. Today's economic model requires foreign market and resources for prosperity.

My bet is that EU wants to have power to prosper and calm down her immediate neighborhod and let the US play the first violin in the global stage.
Think in this way: do you want your best friend to control your bank account forever? Certainly not.
 

jouni

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The chinese economic model of 500 years ago didn't require external market/resources, so this "greatest navy"provided little economic benefit to the country. Today's economic model requires foreign market and resources for prosperity.



Think in this way: do you want your best friend to control your bank account forever? Certainly not.
Currently the interdependency between china and us is a good quarantine of peace. I just cant imagine this power struggle between EU and USA, sorry
 

prohumanity

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In one speech, PM Modi said "the style of modern wars have changed" What he meant was todays wars are (1) proxy wars..using a neighbor to create trouble in opposing nation or by infiltrating terrorists (2) Economic wars..by ganging up and putting sanctions to destroy the economy of opposing nation.(3) Cyber wars...by creating chaos in computers of banking and financial markets by cyber attacks/hacking websites (4) Financial attacks: by flooding opposite nations stock markets with a huge amount of money and ,then, suddenly ,in co-ordinated fashion pull out the huge amount of money causing collapse of stock and bond markets. (5) Information wars: by controlling and bribing major news sources to demonize opposition nation and misinforming people .
HMS...you are still stuck on old time ,traditional war...this is 21st century.. you do not get it...Are you nuts?
 

prohumanity

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Once again...let me clarify my view in crystal clear terms....India and West have a lot in common...democracy, free speech, open society, individual property rights, private business model and quest for knowledge. Indian civilization believed for centuries in not just equality of gender BUT ,in fact, superiority of women...(Men in India always have worshipped Godesses ) So, lots of core values at least in theory,,West and India share, lets be honest about this fact. India and West are not too far in most areas of thinking.
The difficulty in Indian mind is that West preaches great values BUT practices just the opposite in many instances..such as supporting dictators in Pakistan, Egypt , being a protector and ally of Saudi Royal family and King of Jordan (both undemocratic), preaches individual privacy and liberty, but, secretly
tapes phone calls, read e-mails and monitors computer activities of its own citizens (height of hypocracy)...atleast communists tell you in advance they they are spying on and monitoring you. Making thousands of nuclear missiles and other very deadly weapons themselves and telling other nations not to have high tech weapons, Now, this duplicious behavior of West drives Indian mind nuts. They don't believe in Gandiji but expects India to believe in Gandhiji's non-violence.
Traditionally, Indian civilization has a core belief that one should rise above "me" to "we" (let every one be happy and healthy), connecting with other and accept and respect their cultural values and traditions...On other hand, West has this self centered attitude and assume that "we are the exceptional and indispensable civilization better than all others" This is sign of an unwise and immature civilization. India has been ruled by Muslims and Britishers for centuries and lots of its core values got distorted and confused. e.g.
Can you give me one example of a Hindu Goddess who wears a veil (burka)? The way they say "ji' at the end of a person's name inherently expresses respect for that person. The greeting "Namaste" means "I bow to the existence(God) which resides in you. The answer to "Namaste" is "Namaste"...the other person is also, expressing respect for the God in the first person. How beautiful is this example of true mutual respect ! Its not shallow like whether the morning is "good' or 'not so good" West lost its way to being great civilization because it chose single-minded path of pursuit of materialistic things. They started defining success in terms of how much money a person makes, how big a house he lives in , how new is his cell phone, how expensive is his car...this is disaster as it keeps West stuck at a lower level of civilizational development.So, West is losing respect fast.
India has its own big problem..one is forgetting its great, deep and wise heritage and blindly imitating western shallow and narcissistic model..second..it has not succeeded until now in keeping a clean environment, rule of law, and basic physical needs of nutrition, housing, clean water etc.
China and India and most Asian Nations are "WE" civilizations where collective good takes upper hand to "I ,Me and myself" narrow ,selfish ideal. Other fact is that Eastern civilizations don't have tendency to dominate, control and enslave other civilizations but have an ancient concept of peaceful coexistence and mutual respect (Panchsheel principles) Chinese prez, Mr Xi recently said "We, Chinese do not have Domination and imperialist DNA in us" Indian PM, Mr Modi said " Lets take all of us on the path of development together" These thought patterns indicate depth, maturity and wisdom of Indian and Chinese civilizations.
Until we start thinking again" the entire World is one family" the major problems, wars and violence ,ethnic conflicts will keep on escalating...and peace will elude us .it's time for West to learn some wise values of "WE" civilizations and drop the "Only I, Me and Myself" selfish ideology.
 
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jouni

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Once again...let me clarify my view in crystal clear terms....India and West have a lot in common...democracy, free speech, open society, individual property rights, private business model and quest for knowledge. Indian civilization believed for centuries in not just equality of gender BUT ,in fact, superiority of women...(Men in India always have worshipped Godesses ) So, lots of core values at least in theory,,West and India share, lets be honest about this fact. India and West are not too far in most areas of thinking.
The difficulty in Indian mind is that West preaches great values BUT practices just the opposite in many instances..such as supporting dictators in Pakistan, Egypt , being a protector and ally of Saudi Royal family and King of Jordan (both undemocratic), preaches individual privacy and liberty, but, secretly
tapes phone calls, read e-mails and monitors computer activities of its own citizens (height of hypocracy)...atleast communists tell you in advance they they are spying on and monitoring you. Making thousands of nuclear missiles and other very deadly weapons themselves and telling other nations not to have high tech weapons, Now, this duplicious behavior of West drives Indian mind nuts. They don't believe in Gandiji but expects India to believe in Gandhiji's non-violence.
Traditionally, Indian civilization has a core belief that one should rise above "me" to "we" (let every one be happy and healthy), connecting with other and accept and respect their cultural values and traditions...On other hand, West has this self centered attitude and assume that "we are the exceptional and indispensable civilization better than all others" This is sign of an unwise and immature civilization. India has been ruled by Muslims and Britishers for centuries and lots of its core values got distorted and confused. e.g.
Can you give me one example of a Hindu Goddess who wears a veil (burka)? The way they say "ji' at the end of a person's name inherently expresses respect for that person. The greeting "Namaste" means "I bow to the existence(God) which resides in you. The answer to "Namaste" is "Namaste"...the other person is also, expressing respect for the God in the first person. How beautiful is this example of true mutual respect ! Its not shallow like whether the morning is "good' or 'not so good" West lost its way to being great civilization because it chose single-minded path of pursuit of materialistic things. They started defining success in terms of how much money a person makes, how big a house he lives in , how new is his cell phone, how expensive is his car...this is disaster as it keeps West stuck at a lower level of civilizational development.So, West is losing respect fast.
India has its own big problem..one is forgetting its great, deep and wise heritage and blindly imitating western shallow and narcissistic model..second..it has not succeeded until now in keeping a clean environment, rule of law, and basic physical needs of nutrition, housing, clean water etc.
China and India and most Asian Nations are "WE" civilizations where collective good takes upper hand to "I ,Me and myself" narrow ,selfish ideal. Other fact is that Eastern civilizations don't have tendency to dominate, control and enslave other civilizations but have an ancient concept of peaceful coexistence and mutual respect (Panchsheel principles) Chinese prez, Mr Xi recently said "We, Chinese do not have Domination and imperialist DNA in us" Indian PM, Mr Modi said " Lets take all of us on the path of development together" These thought patterns indicate depth, maturity and wisdom of Indian and Chinese civilizations.
Until we start thinking again" the entire World is one family" the major problems, wars and violence ,ethnic conflicts will keep on escalating...and peace will elude us .it's time for West to learn some wise values of "WE" civilizations and drop the "Only I, Me and Myself" selfish ideology.
India is the second most populated country in the world. You should focus more on being an active player in the world stage and stop this low esteem complaining about what ever wrongs have been in the past. By doing so you get at least my admiration and support. After coming this forum I have started to appreciate the greatness of Indian culture. Also the picture of the west is superficial stereotype and have little resemblance to the actual lives in people in different countries.

In Finland we have this joke: " Englishman, German and Finn saw an elephant, Englishman thought: "Nice animal, I could sell it for a lot of profit", the German thought "Strong animal, I could put it to use in my factory". The Finn thought: "I wonder what this elephant thinks of me?"
 
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jouni

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In one speech, PM Modi said "the style of modern wars have changed" What he meant was todays wars are (1) proxy wars..using a neighbor to create trouble in opposing nation or by infiltrating terrorists (2) Economic wars..by ganging up and putting sanctions to destroy the economy of opposing nation.(3) Cyber wars...by creating chaos in computers of banking and financial markets by cyber attacks/hacking websites (4) Financial attacks: by flooding opposite nations stock markets with a huge amount of money and ,then, suddenly ,in co-ordinated fashion pull out the huge amount of money causing collapse of stock and bond markets. (5) Information wars: by controlling and bribing major news sources to demonize opposition nation and misinforming people .
HMS...you are still stuck on old time ,traditional war...this is 21st century.. you do not get it...Are you nuts?
Russia uses this doctrine in Ukraine, less so the financial too but the rest and more. Finnish military Collage has studied it at least five years and adopted Finnish military doctrine accordingly.
 

prohumanity

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Thanks...this gives the idea that finland's culture has some depth if they think what others think of them. I was saying about the western cultures who are arrogant and very self centered and narcissistic to believe that they are "exceptional" and "only special people" ...They are drunk with their money and weapons....others are catching up fast and getting more and more deadly weapons so equality and mutual respect will be only choice in the future. A bully can bully only until he is certain that his body will be intact and only the other guy will get injured. The minute he realize that although he can break both legs of the other BUT the other will end up breaking one of his leg. This realization stops the Bully instantly.
 
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HMS Astute

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In Finland we have this joke: " Englishman, German and Finn saw an elephant, Englishman thought: "Nice animal, I could sell it for a lot of profit", the German thought "Strong animal, I could put it to use in my factory". The Finn thought: "I wonder what this elephant thinks of me?"
And French thought: "OMG Let's surrender and run away".
 

jouni

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Thanks...this gives the idea that finland's culture has some depth if they think what others think of them. I was saying about the western cultures who are arrogant and very self centered and narcissistic to believe that they are "exceptional" and "only special people" ...They are drunk with their money and weapons....others are catching up fast and getting more and more deadly weapons so equality and mutual respect will be only choice in the future. A bully can bully only until he is certain that his body will be intact and only the other guy will get injured. The minute he realize that although he can break both legs of the other BUT the other will end up breaking one of his leg. This realization stops the Bully instantly.
I am not sure about your theory. If the bully has full control of state media, can rally people behind him with false accusations and clever propaganda machine, does not have to worry his own position ( opposition oppressed )...He will be still bully, and be prepared to loose a leg as long as the head stays.
 

Ancient Indian

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Once again...let me clarify my view in crystal clear terms....India and West have a lot in common...democracy, free speech, open society, individual property rights, private business model and quest for knowledge. Indian civilization believed for centuries in not just equality of gender BUT ,in fact, superiority of women...(Men in India always have worshipped Godesses ) So, lots of core values at least in theory,,West and India share, lets be honest about this fact. India and West are not too far in most areas of thinking.
The difficulty in Indian mind is that West preaches great values BUT practices just the opposite in many instances..such as supporting dictators in Pakistan, Egypt , being a protector and ally of Saudi Royal family and King of Jordan (both undemocratic), preaches individual privacy and liberty, but, secretly
tapes phone calls, read e-mails and monitors computer activities of its own citizens (height of hypocracy)...atleast communists tell you in advance they they are spying on and monitoring you. Making thousands of nuclear missiles and other very deadly weapons themselves and telling other nations not to have high tech weapons, Now, this duplicious behavior of West drives Indian mind nuts. They don't believe in Gandiji but expects India to believe in Gandhiji's non-violence.
Traditionally, Indian civilization has a core belief that one should rise above "me" to "we" (let every one be happy and healthy), connecting with other and accept and respect their cultural values and traditions...On other hand, West has this self centered attitude and assume that "we are the exceptional and indispensable civilization better than all others" This is sign of an unwise and immature civilization. India has been ruled by Muslims and Britishers for centuries and lots of its core values got distorted and confused. e.g.
Can you give me one example of a Hindu Goddess who wears a veil (burka)? The way they say "ji' at the end of a person's name inherently expresses respect for that person. The greeting "Namaste" means "I bow to the existence(God) which resides in you. The answer to "Namaste" is "Namaste"...the other person is also, expressing respect for the God in the first person. How beautiful is this example of true mutual respect ! Its not shallow like whether the morning is "good' or 'not so good" West lost its way to being great civilization because it chose single-minded path of pursuit of materialistic things. They started defining success in terms of how much money a person makes, how big a house he lives in , how new is his cell phone, how expensive is his car...this is disaster as it keeps West stuck at a lower level of civilizational development.So, West is losing respect fast.
India has its own big problem..one is forgetting its great, deep and wise heritage and blindly imitating western shallow and narcissistic model..second..it has not succeeded until now in keeping a clean environment, rule of law, and basic physical needs of nutrition, housing, clean water etc.
China and India and most Asian Nations are "WE" civilizations where collective good takes upper hand to "I ,Me and myself" narrow ,selfish ideal. Other fact is that Eastern civilizations don't have tendency to dominate, control and enslave other civilizations but have an ancient concept of peaceful coexistence and mutual respect (Panchsheel principles) Chinese prez, Mr Xi recently said "We, Chinese do not have Domination and imperialist DNA in us" Indian PM, Mr Modi said " Lets take all of us on the path of development together" These thought patterns indicate depth, maturity and wisdom of Indian and Chinese civilizations.
Until we start thinking again" the entire World is one family" the major problems, wars and violence ,ethnic conflicts will keep on escalating...and peace will elude us .it's time for West to learn some wise values of "WE" civilizations and drop the "Only I, Me and Myself" selfish ideology.
I agree with you on lot points you have made but the similarities between west and India. I don't agree with you.
The similarities started to appear after Indian parents thought that western people were so clever and they wanted to rise their kids to become like them. That is the main reason why we lack self confidence and always seek west's approval when we do some thing.
And when a bunch of people pointed this to these parents, they immediately started screaming and accused them of being medieval morons.
Guess what?
These medieval morons campaigned this time polls and won with clear mandate. You just have to wait for few years to know what you are made of.
I am not sure about your theory. If the bully has full control of state media, can rally people behind him with false accusations and clever propaganda machine, does not have to worry his own position ( opposition oppressed )...He will be still bully
you forgot to mention his secrete army which is not secrete.
 

jouni

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You have to start playing team sports, we are small but kick a×× of big nations regularly in volleyball, basketball and Ice hockey. Not to mention F1. That works wonders for your self confidence. That's much healthier than building enemy scenarios to boost your own self esteem.
 

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