The globality Of Hinduism

[sgarg]

@Ray, you have no guru, so you become guru yourself. Very convenient.

The search for truth requires a man to face a number of falsehoods present in the society. That includes the origin of languages and cultures.

 

[Ray]

@Ray, you have no guru, so you become guru yourself. Very convenient.

The search for truth requires a man to face a number of falsehoods present in the society. That includes the origin of languages and cultures.

Ins't your contention that I have become a guru very ridiculous.

I have said I have no idea. What could be more clear than that I seek info?

As far as the origin of language and culture, you and your guru cannot be the expert since Vedas per se cannot determine the course of culture or language. It is determined by scholars who are experts on the subject to include various disciplines beyond just knowing the Vedas.

@Ray, what the hell is pre-vedic?

I have full respect for Bengali culture and all cultures but when somebody publishes false information about a religious book - how can that be condoned.

You are deeply mistaken.

Do I care if you are a Hindu or not? The word Hindu means nothing as there is no religious book that explains the word Hindu.

Hindu is just a regional term like Bengali.

What the hell is pre Vedic?

Well apparently you are superficial since you did not read the link of the Roots of Bengali Culture that I had appended. It is a book.

It is immaterial if you respect or disrespect Bengali culture. Who bothers? What makes you feel that Samaren Ray does not know? Read and ye shall learn. Do not suffer from megalomania that you are the sole repository of knowledge.

 

[sgarg]

@Ray, I have no interest in reading that book. Now will you present your arguments?
I do not care if some Samaren Ray is right or wrong. I am not arguing with Samran Ray. I am arguing with you.

So your concept of me respecting Bengali culture is limited to reading a book by Samran Ray? Great logic!

There is no pre-Vedic society. This is an absolute lie.

Can I ask you to do a proper translation of the Vedic verses with proper "sandhi-vichheda" and explanation using "Nirukta" and "Nighantu".
Most likely your Bengali author does not even know what is Sanskrit grammer and vocablury.

 

[sgarg]

I am using strong words as respecting a religious book is important. We are told to respect Guru Granth Sahib, Bible and Kuran, because every religious book has some truth and it is important to find that truth.

Have you ever seen me denouncing Bible??

 

[Ray]

@Ray, I have no interest in reading that book. Now will you present your arguments?
I do not care if some Samaren Ray is right or wrong. I am not arguing with Samran Ray. I am arguing with you.

So your concept of me respecting Bengali culture is limited to reading a book by Samran Ray? Great logic!

There is no pre-Vedic society. This is an absolute lie.

Can I ask you to do a proper translation of the Vedic verses with proper "sandhi-vichheda" and explanation using "Nirukta" and "Nighantu".
Most likely your Bengali author does not even know what is Sanskrit grammer and vocablury.

If you do not read, even when it laid out on a plate, indicates laziness, refusing to learn beyond one's megalomaniac self importance.

Samaren has written in English and not Bengali and so he is not a Bengali author.

I am not arguing with anyone, least with you, since you are shallow. I rather learn from @warriorextreme, who possibly knows more and more keen to educate and not show off with scanty knowledge and you and yet, he has the humility to state that he is but still a student unlike your pompous and superficial positing.

Seen the difference now between a genuine person and a charlatan?

I am using strong words as respecting a religious book is important. We are told to respect Guru Granth Sahib, Bible and Kuran, because every religious book has some truth and it is important to find that truth.

Have you ever seen me denouncing Bible??

Does it matter?

What is the connection?

Further, let us not deviate from the actuals that is getting some insight into the issues on the subeject.

 

[sgarg]

It is not me but Samaren is a charlatan. Let him come on this forum and defend himself.

What is point of arguing with you @Ray when all you have is a reference to a book; as if this book is the gospel truth.

My challenge to you stands. Bring any of your authors and experts and we shall see if any would stand even one hour. Ignorance is not very difficult to prove.

The correct way is discussing face to face. My challenge to you stands for the next two years.

I shall arrange all the resources including the venue, press, everything.

 

[sgarg]

It seems Samaren Roy is no more.

Later during 2007 he expired.

I wanted to contact him but realized he is no more. My condolences.

Discussing the book has no meaning as author is not available to defend it.

The face to face oral discussion is insistence of Guruji. The explanation of vedic mantra is done by the learned only. As I said earlier, please come and discuss, in the most cordial and hospitable environment rather than denouncing Vedas.

 

[Ray]

It is not me but Samaren is a charlatan. Let him come on this forum and defend himself.

What is point of arguing with you @Ray when all you have is a reference to a book; as if this book is the gospel truth.

My challenge to you stands. Bring any of your authors and experts and we shall see if any would stand even one hour. Ignorance is not very difficult to prove.

The correct way is discussing face to face. My challenge to you stands for the next two years.

I shall arrange all the resources including the venue, press, everything.

Samaren is no charlatan. He has not pretended to be what he is not. He wrote a book and obviously he was not unlearned as you since he quoted history and religious books, which others, who are well known as experts too have quoted. You only quote your Guruji as if he is God descended on Earth.

Why should I bring anyone to you? What are you credentials that I should waste my time on you? Imagine me wasting my time debating about the Military to, say, a hawker on the pavement?

I seek knowledge not false pride, as you do for the latter.

By the bye, who is this great Guruji of yours? Some Sankaracharya of some self acclaimed fame?

 

[sgarg]

@Ray, fine, believe what you want to. I can retort every single paragraph of this so called book but don't want to, as it does not serve any purpose.

If sense prevails over you at some point in time in future, you can take the offer.

 

[mayankkrishna]

No Vedas are complete. The written down version is same as the oral version.

The Vedic culture used Sanskrit which was spoken as well as written. The Vedas were written down in book form in Vedic culture only just before Mahabharat war by Vyaas Muni.

The oral transfer of Vedas also continued despite writing in book form.

"shruti" means "what is heard". This name was given to Veda because it was memorized and transferred from guru to shishya via oral teaching.

South Asia is a big land-mass and we should not assume that the entire population was Vedic at any given time. It is reasonable to assume that Vedic and non-Vedic people existed side by side. So there must be other beliefs also. When Vedic beliefs declined in society, other beliefs became more prominent.

We cannot lump everything seen in India under Vedic beliefs.

Mahabharat War brought an epochal change in Indian culture. I began the transition from 'Dwapar Yuga' to 'Kali Yuga'. And according to our culture there are sea change in our mindsets, and practice. Lets not go deeper into this.. Ved Vyas wrote Vedas, but they were saved by Adi Shankaracharya by his preachings across India, to save them from various misbeliefs spreading because of Jainism and Buddhism of what Hinduism faced during and post Ashoka period. Later Islamic invasion was also responsible for destruction of manuscripts from various llibraries and slaughters of Bhrahmins accross 'Matths' & 'Pathshalas'.

Yes We cannot Lump everything seen in India under Vedic Beliefs, but we can, what is everywhere in the world or universe in the Vedas...

 

[sgarg]

Hinduism word is a recently coined word, may be used over the last century or so. I repeat the word Hindu does not connotate a religion.

There is a clear definition of a religion. Each religion has an organized set of beliefs and ways of worship.

Only Vedic religion fits into the definition of an organized religion as it has a Veda, a book defining the religion, and Manusmriti - a book of codified laws and social practices.

However very few Indians follow Vedic religion.

Hinduism mostly refers to a hodge-podge of beliefs with no central idea except "culture".

 

[sgarg]

adwait is not possible as it is illogical first of all. The "jeev" and "Ishwar" cannot be one and same as "jeev" goes through cycle of life and death, pain and happiness etc. If there is a God who has created the Universe etc., it is illogical to believe such God will be at the level of "jeev".

Vedas says about three fundamental entities which are everlasting - Ishwar, atma, and prakriti. Atma and prakriti are under the management of Ishwar.

 

[sgarg]

India cannot become great until Vedic dharm comes back. Hinduism becoming a global religion is impossible because nobody can understand Hinduism. Can somebody teach me Hinduism?? Can a foreigner convert to Hinduism - what is he supposed to learn and do? I cornered a Pandit in a marriage ceremony about the gibberish he was reciting once? He said he has to earn for a living and this is what people want to hear. What you call a society where a priest "adapts" to the needs of his congregation.

Sikhs participate freely in our "yajya". Even Muslims have attended. Many foreigners have come and attended our "yajya". Vedic dharm has universal appeal. The same cannot be said of Hinduism.

 

[Ray]

Diversity is in the DNA of Hinduism: Sri Sri Ravi Shankar

Why should the Bhagwad Gita or any other sacred book get designated as national scripture? Why does one have to learn Sanskrit? With self-proclaimed Hindu nationalists assuming the right to decide who is a Hindu, the question arises: what does it really mean to be Hindu? Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, founder, Art of Living Foundation, tells Narayani Ganesh that any political party that seeks to represent the Hindu way needs to celebrate its diversity rather than limit it.

Why do we need to establish a certain Hindu identity?
Hinduism should be seen as a transcultural way of life. If you tie it up with a certain culture, its scope becomes very limited. This is what happened to Judaism and to some extent, to Islam. Christianity, on the other hand, has seeped into every culture — you may wear a skirt and be Christian, or wear a sari and blouse and still be Christian. Similarly you may wear a suit and tie and still be Hindu. Your dress does not matter, unlike what was promoted by the International Society for Krishna Consciousness that brought in cultural Hinduism. They insisted that people wear the dhoti-kurta and sport a shaven head with a tuft, even in cold places. They took the Bengali culture with Hinduism — there is nothing wrong with that, but it limits the purview of that philosophy. The uniqueness of Hinduism is that it transcends the cultural and generational time barrier. Fashion is a time-bound thing but if you attach religion to fashion, then there is a problem. In Chanakya's time, the tuft (at the back of the head) was the fashion, and a particular way of wearing a dhoti was the fashion. But sporting a tuft or shaving your head does not make you a Hindu.

The way one chooses to dress or eat is all part of culture, and culture is dynamic. If we embroil Hinduism in all of this — clothing, food, language and so on — we are not doing justice to its universality, to the vastness that Hinduism stands for. If we limit its scope, then its universal nature of thought gets lost.

What does vedanta say about Hindu identity?
Even among south Indian states, the culture is so different. And the culture of a Tamil, Bengali and Punjabi Hindu are also so very dif ferent. The same Krishna Yajurveda mantra is chanted differently in Kerala, in Andhra Pradesh, in Tamil Nadu and so on. So Hinduism is full of diversity and no one can make it into a uniform something. For instance, in Karnataka, the Hindu bride wears white and the widow or a sanyasi wears red whereas in TN, the Hindu bride wears red and widows wear white! It's totally the opposite, just across the border!

Wearing this colour or that, sporting a tuft or earrings is not part of religion. That is fashion. What do the Vedas say? "Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam" (Let us make this world a noble place to live in, let us give highest knowledge to the whole world). The upanishads say, "Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam" (the whole world is one family).

So you are saying there is no uniformity in Hinduism?
It is impossible to bring uniformity in Hinduism. The shakhas and branches are all different.
Can there be one single sacred book of the Hindus?

In Hinduism, there is no one central book, and no one specific culture. Therefore, those who are trying to bring unification are doing injustice to the very structure of Hinduism. Celebrating diversity is in the very DNA of Hinduism; that is the reason why it is most needed today in the whole world. The world is diverse — but all conflicts are about trying to make the world monolithic. Celebration of diversity is the only way to counter extremism.
What should a party that calls itself a Hindu political party be doing?

It has to honour diversity; it is the only way because otherwise, we will be narrowing the scope and reach of Hinduism. Celebrate diversity, and don't try to limit the universality of being Hindu.

Diversity is in the DNA of Hinduism: Sri Sri Ravi Shankar - TOI Blogs

 

[sgarg]

Should children study Geeta?? The answer is yes. Should Geeta be declared as a "sacred book"? The answer is no.

Mahabharat is a story which comes in the "itihas" category of Sanskrit literature. It is not a book of religion. Only Veda is the book of religion.

However Geeta is a very popular and well-read book and it is known worldwide due to efforts of some prominent Indians. Do we need to define a Hindu identity on the basis of Geeta? There is no need.

 

[Kay]

Should children study Geeta?? The answer is yes. Should Geeta be declared as a "sacred book"? The answer is no.

Mahabharat is a story which comes in the "itihas" category of Sanskrit literature. It is not a book of religion. Only Veda is the book of religion.

However Geeta is a very popular and well-read book and it is known worldwide due to efforts of some prominent Indians. Do we need to define a Hindu identity on the basis of Geeta? There is no need.

I think it should be a matter of choice whether people should study any religious text at all or not. In case of children, the decision should be left to parents how they bring their children up. Making it compulsory would be bad. Here is why.
Everything taught by religion is hypothetical - Ishwar, atma and prakriti. They are an attempt to explain things about which little current knowledge is there. But teaching them as absolute truth to children will create a society which will not teach people to question authority or existing beliefs. This will affect innovative faculty of the society.

 

[Srinivas_K]

adwait is not possible as it is illogical first of all. The "jeev" and "Ishwar" cannot be one and same as "jeev" goes through cycle of life and death, pain and happiness etc. If there is a God who has created the Universe etc., it is illogical to believe such God will be at the level of "jeev".

Vedas says about three fundamental entities which are everlasting - Ishwar, atma, and prakriti. Atma and prakriti are under the management of Ishwar.

It is possible,

GOD in the sense is the thing inside every living thing and non living thing that makes them to follow Dharma.

Hari bhajans which say "Khan Khan me Base ho Hari Hari " means GOD exists in cells that were building blocks of the universe, are in sync with advaitha philosophy.

One cannot constrain GOD, humans have limited thinking capacity to figure our who He is. Any view that takes humans as basis to describe GOD, fail.

 

[Abhijat]

@sgarg, Sir, please tell me name of your guru and also the name of book/translation about Vedas.

 

[Khagesh]

It is possible,

GOD in the sense is the thing inside every living thing and non living thing that makes them to follow Dharma.

Hari bhajans which say "Khan Khan me Base ho Hari Hari " means GOD exists in cells that were building blocks of the universe, are in sync with advaitha philosophy.

One cannot constrain GOD, humans have limited thinking capacity to figure our who He is. Any view that takes humans as basis to describe GOD, fail.

Arjun, the chosen one, got frightened by the Vishwaswaroopa and begged to be spared. Yashoda, again the chosen one, was similarly out of wits. Only for some reason Sanjay, a mere reporter/correspondent, saw and remained calm. He was the only one who simply accepted the possibility with complete calm.


In the case of Parent's freedom to impart religious training to children, we need also need to additionally ensure that these parents and their wards then do not come on to the streets claiming victimization. Currently every single lousy creature on the streets, blaming the world for his own worthlessness is, potty trained by his parents.

Religious training is the Guru's job. Only Dharmic peoples have Gurus.

 

[sgarg]

@sgarg, Sir, please tell me name of your guru and also the name of book/translation about Vedas.

I shall send you a message.