The first Aegis is on Vayag

[badguy2000]

How did the Chinese get to Copy the Aegis? Is it the same way they got hold of the F117 and made a stealth plane reverse engineering it? The Japanese operate the Aegis but how did the chinese get their hands on them? Last time I checked Japan is wary of China and vice versa, mutual distrust exists even to this day. Can you tell me how the Chinese Aegis can be said to have been derived from US Aegis System? God Speed

guy,how can Japanese tell chinese how to make Aegis,when Japanese themselves have to import core tech and components of their Aegis from Yankees?

Only two guys except China has really mastered Aegis tech. one is Yankee,and the other is EU(as a whole, any of EU countries has just mastered one part of Aegis).

the Aegis of Japan and S.KOrea both have imported core tech and components from USA.

 

[gogbot]

you are wasting your time.

Most people here never underestimate "Chinese abilities to do research and obsorb technologies". they just pretend to underestimate "Chinese abilities to do research and obsorb technologies".

Maybe they think that it is disgraceful to aknowledge it in the front of CHinese.

If you want to know the real feelings of Indian people, Just visit rediff.com. the comments there can tell you more truth than here.

After all, Indian people would rather tell truth where they think foreigners are absent.

when did china acquire these capabilities what is the time frame.

That is the one of the things that does not match up.

You don't got from point A to H in decade.

 

[Rage]

well, are you serous? do you really think CCP cares such a trivial forum like IDF,which has to gigest second-handed from CD or FY?

If CCP really cared such leaks, CCP could just shut the source of leaks such as CD or FY directly.After all, Janes Defence and Kanwa quote news and information from CD or FY.

Obviously, he's not serious you fool!

you are wasting your time.

Most people here never underestimate "Chinese abilities to do research and obsorb technologies". they just pretend to underestimate "Chinese abilities to do research and obsorb technologies".

Maybe they think that it is disgraceful to aknowledge it in the front of CHinese.

If you want to know the real feelings of Indian people, Just visit rediff.com. the comments there can tell you more truth than here.

After all, Indian people would rather tell truth where they think foreigners are absent.

We've been through this already. You seem to have a fascination for rediff, because it tells you what you want to hear.

rediff is populated by the average Indian netizen and the average Indian bloke, that sees only everything wrong with India, and only the shining side of China, oblivious to what lies beneath the facade, oblivious to the fact that there are any slums in Shanghai or poor people in China or rural migrants in the towns and cities or for that matter to what the Indian government is doing, with the obvious, exclusive focus on only what it is not doing.

It is your typical sector-18 to where the chinese can go to get a kick out of how much the Indians abhor themselves, and how much they stand in 'awe' of China. But it is precisely that mentality that drives us to succeed, despite the government.

To the average bloke on rediff, a question about CCP's turgid history or the present politics of its state or even of any statistics on its economic reforms draws a blank. Why? Because he does not know of anything else. He does not know of the dams being constructed in Arun'achal or the bridges being built in Uttar Pradesh. He does not see or hear of the car-manufacturing factories around Chennai or the number of Universities in Pune. He sees only what is down his street, in his immediate vicinity, the potholes on Gulbaug road and the slums in Makki town. He sees only the same glitzy photographs of Beijing, has never seen Chinese slums, has probably never heard of Noida or Raipur, and forms impressions of the two countries thereof. He reads of India's military woes in papers that exaggerate them to sell in cut-throat competition, and draws conclusions about military disparities and intents thereof. He has no conception of a downtown-core, having lived in the suburbs most his life, and probably never having been to the downtown of his city, itself. He is fascinated by what he 'sees', nothing more nothing less. I know this Indian, because I was him, atleast until I was 14. Unfortunately, some people never grow. If this is the kind of Indian you believe representative of an accurate assessment in the disparities between the two countries, then you are highly mistaken.

 

[redragon]

facts:
1. Chinese have AESA, the type 52c destroyers have used Aegis like systems which have 2 square antenas for 5+ years.
2. KJ 2000/200 series have been using AESA and their pictures are everywhere, I believe most senior members of DFI have seen those pics
3. AESA for smaller aircraft has been tested.
4. From the Pic of Vayag I paste, you can see at leat one of the 4 square antenas has been installed, and you can also see it's undergoing degaussing right now, there are some wires hanging in equal range.

What I believe are Vayag is very likely to enter service earlier than its indian cousin, and a su-33 like fighter will be used for training pilots, in the coming 2-3 years you will see all these. I agree I can't provide links or articles to prove that, but at the same time no other members can prove those are lies, so I will see you in this tread later, that time we can tell if I were wrong

 

[BunBunCake]

[quote="redragon, post: 130911"]facts: 
1. Chinese have AESA, the type 52c destroyers have used Aegis like systems which have 2 square antenas for 5+ years. [/QUOTE]

////////////
Look at what the members here have been saying..... don't speculate with pictures.

@[IMG]http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2590/19bh1.jpg[/IMG]
What do you have to say abut that sir? Looks like it's stealthier than the F-22 to me.... (not trying to deviate thread, but i hope you see Pictures people post doesn't necessarily mean anything.) You cannot keep on basing your argument on those pics.


[QUOTE]2. KJ 2000/200 series have been using AESA and their pictures are everywhere, I believe most senior members of DFI have seen those pics
[/QUOTE]

okay.....

[QUOTE]3. AESA for smaller aircraft has been tested.
[/QUOTE]
When will they be incorporated in larger aircraft? O.o
Don't ya think it's time to upgrade the radars on the J-11 and Su-30's if you have this tech.

[QUOTE]
4. From the Pic of Vayag I paste, you can see at leat one of the 4 square antenas has been installed, and you can also see it's undergoing degaussing right now, there are some wires hanging in equal range.
[/QUOTE]
......

[QUOTE]
What I believe are Vayag is very likely to enter service earlier than its indian cousin, and a su-33 like fighter will be used for training pilots, in the coming 2-3 years you will see all these. I agree I can't provide links or articles to prove that, but at the same time no other members can prove those are lies, so I will see you in this tread later, that time we can tell if I were wrong[/QUOTE]

Actually wrong. The Mig-29's for Vikramaditya have already been recived from Russia. And our pilots are already training.
We have no news from China on when this will start even. Although i've seen a couple blogs post the Su-33 might be used.

 

[Tim]

Badguy2000 and Redragon: I admire your courage and efforts but these Indian friends live in their own world they created for themselves. They love to blindfold their eyes and stuff their ears for anything they dont want to see or hear. So your efforts are not appreciated..

By the way moderator: you are a moderator, not a dictator. Don't just ban to delete anything you don't like. If India claims to be a democratic country, you should behave like one.

 

[ahmedsid]

Badguy2000 and Redragon: I admire your courage and efforts but these Indian friends live in their own world they created for themselves. They love to blindfold their eyes and stuff their ears for anything they dont want to see or hear. So your efforts are not appreciated..

By the way moderator: you are a moderator, not a dictator. Don't just ban to delete anything you don't like. If India claims to be a democratic country, you should behave like one.

Little Tim, Come on, Post Links, neutral links proving your claims, thats what we are asking! Nothing more God Speed

 

[Armand2REP]

facts:
1. Chinese have AESA, the type 52c destroyers have used Aegis like systems which have 2 square antenas for 5+ years.
2. KJ 2000/200 series have been using AESA and their pictures are everywhere, I believe most senior members of DFI have seen those pics
3. AESA for smaller aircraft has been tested.
4. From the Pic of Vayag I paste, you can see at leat one of the 4 square antenas has been installed, and you can also see it's undergoing degaussing right now, there are some wires hanging in equal range.

What I believe are Vayag is very likely to enter service earlier than its indian cousin, and a su-33 like fighter will be used for training pilots, in the coming 2-3 years you will see all these. I agree I can't provide links or articles to prove that, but at the same time no other members can prove those are lies, so I will see you in this tread later, that time we can tell if I were wrong

Facts:
1. Chinese AEGIS destroyer is a fraud. The search radar is that ancient looking antenna mounted aft. It was also a failed design with the follow on class using Russian Rif system.
2. KJ2000 doesn't have the Israeli radars they wanted, what is installed is not AESA
3. China has never gotten their hands on an AESA to copy so they don't even know what it is.
4. From the picture I posted, you can see it is clearly a Russian FREGAT radar, which is not part of an AEGIS system

Fail, fail, and fail guy.

 

[Iamanidiot]

the picture is adobe photoshop.Photoshop seems to be the biggest manufacture of weapons in china

 

[nrj]

facts:

0_0

4. From the Pic of Vayag I paste, you can see at leat one of the 4 square antenas has been installed, and you can also see it's undergoing degaussing right now, there are some wires hanging in equal range.

You are putting so much effort of analyzing photos & declaring facts. Why don't you do one more thing to terminate our denial, go to the Varyag 'refurbishment process head'(or any equivalent) & bring the same news from him with an authenticate source journalist? Or Ask your chinese cyberspace buddies for the same. We'll be more than happy to agree with you if you bring some solid evidence.

What I believe are Vayag is very likely to enter service earlier than its indian cousin, and a su-33 like fighter will be used for training pilots,

So now you also have insider info about when the Indian Carriers are floating?? What are you?

Our pilots already received training on Russian carriers with Mig-29K & ARE testing the same existing fighter everyday!

You are still claiming that Su-33 like fighters WILL BE used for training.
You are not 100% sure which fighters will be used? what is the status of training? What will be number of fighters carried by the Varyag? And you are claiming You'll enter your carrier before Indians? Leave if Indians enter carrier in this decade or next or never, first come up with the source for following before declaring your FACTS!

For your very information Vikramaditya is due to commission in 2014. IAC-1 is done with 8000ton work in Feb 2009. By Oct 2010 it'll complete the 20,000 ton work making it 80% constructed as of this moment. In OCT 2010 it'll enter water then weapons & critical system fitting will be left. By end of 2010 IAC-1 will be launched which when followed by extensive trials will be commissioned which can let PLAN forget about entering Indian Ocean.

in the coming 2-3 years you will see all these. I agree I can't provide links or articles to prove that, but at the same time no other members can prove those are lies, so I will see you in this tread later, that time we can tell if I were wrong

When you cant prove that Varyag will commission before Indian carriers don't make statements without evidence. Your photoshooped images & speculation about those tanks being AEGIS or trash box is not validated. Come after 2-3 years when/if you have it (I wish you have it) or have the credible source about its existence.

 

[Rage]

Badguy2000 and Redragon: I admire your courage and efforts but these Indian friends live in their own world they created for themselves. They love to blindfold their eyes and stuff their ears for anything they dont want to see or hear. So your efforts are not appreciated..

By the way moderator: you are a moderator, not a dictator. Don't just ban to delete anything you don't like. If India claims to be a democratic country, you should behave like one.

Au contraire, you seem to live in a fantasy world with delusions of grandeur. Jumping quickly to conclusions even before they are reached, forming certainties on the basis of 'pics'- particularly, when the Chinese have a history of PS'ing them in the past, basing your countervailing opinions on 'sites' about Indians because they tell you what you want to hear, and generally forming postulations and opinions about weaponry on the basis of inadequate proof. If you want to speculate, you'll have to listen to the other side of speculation as well. No one's disputing your ability to speculate, but when you do, you have to keep an open mind to contradicting speculation, particularly when your 'proof' is so little, and your reading of the 'proof' itself flawed.

You This forum is a lot more lenient on foreigners, and a lot less tolerant of the shit Indians do, compared to some of the chinese forums on the web.

facts:
4. From the Pic of Vayag I paste, you can see at leat one of the 4 square antenas has been installed, and you can also see it's undergoing degaussing right now, there are some wires hanging in equal range.

What I believe are Vayag is very likely to enter service earlier than its indian cousin, and a su-33 like fighter will be used for training pilots, in the coming 2-3 years you will see all these. I agree I can't provide links or articles to prove that, but at the same time no other members can prove those are lies, so I will see you in this tread later, that time we can tell if I were wrong

I don't think you have a clue as to what degaussing of a ship looks like. Unless, as I have postulated, you've invented a new method of degaussing, or are using degaussing methods that've been relinquished into antiquity, those pics don't show a 'degaussing' system in process. Alternatively, someone seems to have taken a really old pic of a different, but related, field called 'Deperming' and PS'ed it, without an adequate knowledge of the process, on the pic:

This is from the era of black-and-white photo from an ex Kiev-class air-carrier:

Here are the only methods of degaussing of ships' hulls in current existence:

The Main coil (M) compensates the induced, permanent vertical components of the ship's magnetic field in the Z zone. It is installed in the horizontal plane at the waterline. As the ship changes hemispheres the coil current polarity must be and is manually adjusted.

The Forecastle permanent - Quarterdeck permanent coils (FP-QP) compensate for the longitudinal permanent component of the ship's magnetic field. The FP coil encircles approximately the forward 1/3 of the ship in the horizontal plane at the main deck. QP coil encircles approximately the after 1/3 of the ship in the horizontal plane at the quarterdeck. Any coil current changes require manual adjustment. The Forecastle induced - Quarterdeck induced coils (FI-QI) are located in the same area as the FP-QP coils, they compensate for the longitudinal induced component of the ship's magnetic field. The FI-QI current is proportional to the horizontal component of the Earth's magnetic field along the ship's longitudinal axis. The FI-QI coil current is manually changed, by shifting the "H zone" switch on the switchboard, when the ship's location changes H zones. The degaussing system automatically compensates for heading changes by converting a gyro input signal to a magnetic heading.

The Athwartship coil (A) is installed in the vertical plane and extends from the keel to the main deck. It compensates the athwartship induced and athwartship's permanent components of the ship's magnetic field. The A coil current consists of permanent and induced components.

P.S.: nrj, don't lose your cool. He's entitled to speculate. Just as you are.

 

[shiphone]

Facts:
1. Chinese AEGIS destroyer is a fraud. The search radar is that ancient looking antenna mounted aft. It was also a failed design with the follow on class using Russian Rif system.
2. KJ2000 doesn't have the Israeli radars they wanted, what is installed is not AESA
3. China has never gotten their hands on an AESA to copy so they don't even know what it is.
4. From the picture I posted, you can see it is clearly a Russian FREGAT radar, which is not part of an AEGIS system

Fail, fail, and fail guy.

the reality seems very sad to you...wait and see ,you might find the truth but you still can choose not to believe...

1.more 052c with H/LJG346 AESA radar are coming , you will see in 1-2 years in shanghai. but I'm afraid you won't see any more 051c withl rif-m in Dalian.
2.old topic, I could only tell you the AESA radar made in china. but I won't say this is nothing related with Israel
3.LOL. it seems shipborn AESA has come out for many years...nothing so marvelous.
4.it's just a model ...and obviously some kind of improved H/LJG346 radar will be installed...be patient.I don't think it will take long to find who would fail or not.

 

[funner]

space.tv.cctv.com/video/VIDE1255075423473888
..0+/

 

[hit&run]

DFI is different league for new member like you. It takes time to adjust specially when your fortified spoiled blog habits of Chinese forums are now being challenged here. This is the place where most of the chines superfluous claims have been debunked in detail. You are a new member with 4 posts who trying to generalize DFI and prove that Chinese forums are better. But trust me our technicalities will certainly filter you as a well informed person. Welcome to DFI.

 

[Tim]

I actually believe India is more democratic than China. But I also believe you are so self righteous and paranoid ...
I am sure you are going to delete this and ban me now...

 

[Yusuf]

We dont ban just like that. And dont force us to do that. Its better you get posting sense and not get into personal arguments.

Come up with issues with credible links and debate, you are welcome to do that.

 

[Armand2REP]

the reality seems very sad to you...wait and see ,you might find the truth but you still can choose not to believe...

1.more 052c with H/LJG346 AESA radar are coming

LOL, guy, even the SPY-1D is still a PESA radar. It makes absolutely no sense to put four planner array AESAs on a DDG when you have 6 more housed radar antennas. Now seriously look at this picture...

Notice the ancient looking antenna in the fore-aft position, that is the long range search radar. Then notice the two encased radars that are underneath it, those are tracking/engagement radars for port and starboard positions. Then the main tracking radar is the large globe above the bridge which covers the frontal hemisphere. If you have ever seen a real AEGIS destroyer you would know all these larger associate radars are unnecessary. If there really are radars encased in those panels, this ship is sporting 10 radars,+ 2 on the Goalkeeper ripoffs. That isn't what it is, it really only has six, + 2. Those panels are propaganda.

you will see in 1-2 years in shanghai. but I'm afraid you won't see any more 051c withl rif-m in Dalian.

I've been waiting awhile. Earlier in the decade you were launching destroyers pretty regularly. I haven't seen a new one launched since 2005.

2.old topic, I could only tell you the AESA radar made in china. but I won't say this is nothing related with Israel

You can tell me anything you want, it doesn't mean China has AESA radar.

3.LOL. it seems shipborn AESA has come out for many years...nothing so marvelous.

It clearly doesn't have AESA on it, we can see it is obviously an old style 2D radar.

4.it's just a model ...and obviously some kind of improved H/LJG346 radar will be installed...be patient.I don't think it will take long to find who would fail or not.

You couldn't be more right. The panels on the 052C are just mock-ups.

 

[Tim]

Yusuf,

you said: "We dont ban just like that. And dont force us to do that. Its better you get posting sense and not get into personal arguments. Come up with issues with credible links and debate, you are welcome to do that."

then I challenge you to open my thread: "Has the World Learned something from the "Himalayan Blunder"? – A Non-Indian Perspective". Just because you don't like the fact and analysis, dont ban it on some technicalities. the reasons given were: no link provided.. but i was trying to provide the link but the message says the new member is not allowed to post links and pictures..

 

[A.V.]

TIM i know new members cant post links send me the link via PM i will place it for you and get the thread reviewed by another set of moderators
the reason for not allowing new members is because of spamming ....we have a complaints section if you want to make a complaint you are welcome to post there no on discussions thread...

now th best part would be to counter argue rather than picking on forum policies if you are debating with facts without resorting to personal attacks then you will earn the respect you can see badguy here is a respected member although many hardly agree with him so take some time to see the forum before you come to conclusions mods here do not harass or ban anybody the idea is to keep the place clean from **** fights we have achieved such high standards i a spam of 1 year due to the high efficiency of the staff team and the responsible members so enough for now lets see the debate and bring out the points

send me the link via pm and split the link words so that it dosent come under URL tags

 

[shiphone]

Notice the ancient looking antenna in the fore-aft position, that is the long range search radar. Then notice the two encased radars that are underneath it, those are tracking/engagement radars for port and starboard positions. Then the main tracking radar is the large globe above the bridge which covers the frontal hemisphere. If you have ever seen a real AEGIS destroyer you would know all these larger associate radars are unnecessary. If there really are radars encased in those panels, this ship is sporting 10 radars,+ 2 on the Goalkeeper ripoffs. That isn't what it is, it really only has six, + 2. Those panels are propaganda.

[/IMG]

yes,yes...china couldn't has this or that,coz this is such a failed country...

but I have to correct something simple:

the ancient looking antenna in the fore-aft position, that is the long range search radar--Type 517A for EW

the two encased radars that are underneath it, those are tracking/engagement radars for port and starboard positions--not radar but for satellite communications

the main tracking radar is the large globe above the bridge which covers the frontal hemisphere--guide radar for long range ASM YJ62

you miss 2 other radars(maybe you know nothing) Type 347G(for main gun) and SR64(target acquisition radar of CIWS).

those propaganda--Type 346 or H/LJG346 (AESA) target acquisition and missile guide for SAM HHQ9.--google it you might get to know...