The Chinese are Learning Sanskrit!

Discussion in 'China' started by roma, Aug 18, 2015.

  1. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...tellectuals-in-China/articleshow/48528264.cms
    from the Ties of India and entitiled
    Sanskrit summer camp attracts 60 intellectuals in China
    here are some points and comments:-

    BEIJING: A group of 60 Chinese intellectuals have enrolled at a Buddhist Institute for a free summer camp to study Sanskrit to understand the religious and yoga texts better as the ancient Indian language is becoming popular among the new generation of Chinese in the Communist nation.
    Their study at the Hangzhou Buddhism Institute in eastern China over the next six days will focus on reading and writing Sanskrit.

    There is renewed interest in Sanskrit ever since yoga has become popular in recent years specially after UN designated June 21 as international yoga day

    . Many of the trainees in Hangzhou class have been required to work overtime beforehand to get the six days off, some used their annual vacation while others working night-shifts to save the day for study, state- run Xinhua news agency reported.
    ( my comments - that's how dedicated they are to the study of sanskrit )

    here's a comment from a reader -
    Sanskrit is taught in Chinese universities ,but not in Indian Universities In Tamilnadu Mr.Karunanithi abolished Sanskrit from schools as he could not differentiate Hindi and Sanskrit.further he linked Sanskrit to Brhamins whom he wanted to liquidate like Jews in Germany ...... he wanted to kill the culture

    but then there is also some hope for us in this article :-
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...se-Mumbai-households/articleshow/48038344.cms
    Sanskrit is at home in these Mumbai households
    quote; Even as German universities lap up desi Sanskrit teachers and the Thai princess wows with her Sanskrit prowess, the Vedic language stands crippled in its homeland. "It is seen as a divine language that cannot be used for business though it is easy to learn," says Ujjwala Pawar, Sanskrit writer, about the language that is on the verge of getting its own joint secretary. Beyond written verses, chants and the Bhagavad Gita, Sanskrit almost ceases to breathe in public conscience. Which is why it is largely confined to sacred occasions -- poojas, weddings, funerals and the board exams. ( end quote )

    ref
    @angeldude13 @anupamsurey @bose @brational @blueblood @Bangalorean @ersakthivel @Blackwater @bengalraider @cobra commando @DingDong @Hari Sud @Kunal Biswas @LETHALFORCE @mhk99 @Neil @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra @Rowdy @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Srinivas_K @sorcerer @TejasMK3 @Yusuf @jackprince @Bangalorean @indiandefencefan @aliyah @hit&run @VIP @Razor @Blood+ @SANITY @Screambowl @Sylex21 @tsunami @Zebra
    @jaci_zenfone2
     
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  3. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

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  4. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    There is nothing shameful about this, as far as we are concerned. Every country undergoes this transition at some point or other. Usually such focus on other cultures begins when a country feels it is time to look outside of it's borders for economic or political reasons.

    India does not focus on other cultures is for the same reason as African and latin american countries,we are still evolving as a nation. I am pretty sure once we go into economic surplus, all your dreams will come true....
     
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  5. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

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    In Germany you can learn German.
    In India you learn Marxist.
    That is the difference.
     
  6. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Marxism is a political movement not a language.
    In germany you can also become a neo-nazi.
    every country has it's own problems, to each their own. We just do not pay attention because we think they are irrelevant.

    Just because domestic media does not cover other country's domestic problems(with few exceptions like BBC) , doesn't mean other countries don't have their own set of problems. Like is said before, a country starts exploring other country's domestic issues only when there is political or economic interest in the country.

    For example:

    Our financial media keeps us updated on what is happening to german economy because it is relevant to our economy, Our Non-financial MSM does not keep track of neo-nazi cult because it is irrelevant in our context for now.
     
  7. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Do not pay too much attention to a few Buddhist monks learning Sanskrit. One hundred and fifty years back, Germans were learning Sanskrit. Their last learned man proficient in Sanskrit was Max Mueller. He died a long time back. Max Mueller translated Sanskrit texts into English and in the process offered his own opinion about India and its culture, none of them flattering.

    Chinese intellectuals will translate Buddhist texts and similarly offer their own unflattering interpretations of India.

    So leave India for Indians to read, interpret and follow its philosophies.
     
  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    IMHO, you have not read all of Max Müller's opinions about India.
     
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  9. raja696

    raja696 Regular Member

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    Lol I agree with what Hari Sud said max muller's opinon of sanskrit texts is most striping and twisted understanding. I am sure this was proved by Rajiv malhotra in his interviews (you tube videos).
     
  10. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    You agree with what exactly?

    You agree that "none" of Max Müller's opinion about India is flattering? @Hari Sud is essentially saying that every single opinion of Max Müller about India is bad.

    So, can you prove that every single thing Max Müller said about India is bad? I am sure Rajiv Malhotra has given the proof in some YouTube video.

    If it is inconvenient to prove that every single thing Max Müller's said about India is bad, then give just one example of Max Müller's opinion about India that is bad, or not flattering.
     
  11. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Mr. Moderator - pmaitra ........ You need a new job or as an alternative leave religious philosophies outside of your curriculum.

    Here what very early when as a German Origin Lutherian Max Muller was hired to translate the Hindu scripture. He wrote to his wife.

    Indologists, had happily concurred in a letter to his wife: “It (The Rigveda) is the root of their religion and to show them what the root is, I feel sure, is the only way of uprooting all that has sprung from it during the last three thousand years.” Later he also wrote to the Duke of Argyle, the then acting Secretary of State for India: “The ancient religion of India is doomed. And if Christianity does not take its place, whose fault will it be?”


    As time passed he read more and more of Hindu philosophies, he was undergoing a change in attitude. I have read three of his books, these are very illuminating and I bought these from Amazon. These were written when he was instructing the ICS officer trainees at Oxford before these trainees are posted in India. But prior to 1857, First War for Independence, his views were disheartening. He was one of the many who studied Vedas to find faults at that time. That was his intellectual job at the East India Company. By finding faults he wished to uproot Hinduism from India and transplant Christianity in its place. 1857 war changed everything. The British learnt a bad lesson. In the aftermath, all Christian monks went home, and people like Max Muller began to transform their views. Other intellectuals at Cambridge and Oxford followed suit and now suddenly Vedas were most sort after philosophies bypassing Greeks.
     
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  12. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    @Hari Sud,

    I know what jobs I need to do, and one of them is to tear apart self styled religious experts who come online and spout drivel.

    You bought some books from Amazon, assume that no one else has a clue, and you being to delude yourself that you know everything about Max Müller, and that you are an authority to make a sweeping statement that none of his opinions about India is flattering. Really?

    You need to read every single thing about his work regarding India before you use terms like "none."

    For your information, I have read quite a few of his works, and I can assure you, your statement "Max Mueller translated Sanskrit texts into English and in the process offered his own opinion about India and its culture, none of them flattering," is utter drivel.
     
  13. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    @Hari Sud,

    See the screenshots and hopefully in the future, you will write less rubbish. Don't turn into another Arun Shourie.

    [​IMG]

    upload_2015-8-19_2-25-41.png


    "Mill in his estimate of the Hindu character is chiefly guided by Dubois, a French missionary, and by Orme and Buchanan, Tennant, and Ward, all of them neither very competent nor very unprejudiced judges. Mill,[19] however, picks out all that is most unfavorable from their works, and omits the qualifications which even these writers felt bound to give to their wholesale condemnation of the Hindus."

    - Friedrich Max Müller (the man who actually saw, and disapproved of the prejudices the Englishmen held against Indians)
     
  14. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    You have to be critical of my post and stay away from personal criticism. That is your job. Did I not say that after long study of Hindu philosophies, Max Muller was a changed man. Still he continued his anti Hindu tirade when was instructing ICS candidates. His lectures are in a book. You can read them. These you may find in your local library in US or simply buy them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  15. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Max Muller was an outsider, His opinions can be accessory to what primarily the insiders have inherited, learnt and preserved.

    Outsourcing own literature from outsiders and then barging being able to understand it in a translated foreign language can never become an alternative to learning it as it has been prescribed and practiced since time immemorial.
     
  16. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Why @roma you are putting sign of exclamation on your edited thread title. What is so sensationalist about Chinese learning Sanskrit ?

    I have said this before. In order to preserve your languages/culture we have to first become prosperous/rich.

    Chinese are not only becoming prosperous but more sophisticated (which is next level after becoming prosperous) with their approach, how they see world around themselves.

    At present India is in transit for a better transformation. if every thing go alright for long period of time we will back to become a sophisticated society again and many like us will have less assignments like ''Roti Kapada Makaan'' then to indulge in luxuries like learning languages etc.

    By digressing a bit, I would like to add that It is the same logic like why Indian schools and Universities have put more effort in studies that enables us to be capable of getting jobs with adequate skills than sophisticated R&D and specializations. Many nations were lucky to do the both at the same time but in our case we had/have other priorities.
     
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  17. raja696

    raja696 Regular Member

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    Max Mueller & Correcting History: One Step at a Time
    Q: Max Mueller is a very renowned name in India. We have a Max Mueller Institute here where German language is taught and various other activities are conducted. In my understanding, Max Mueller had a command on Sanskrit language and he translated Vedas and other works of Sanskrit. How did he come to acquire immense knowledge of the ancient language which incidentally was not a spoken language?

    A: Max Mueller. It is not his name. His name was Friedrich Maximillan Mueller. He did not publish in German. He did not get a job in Germany. He got a job with the East India Company in England. Most of his writings are in English. He was neither a scholar nor (did) he knew Sanskrit. He was a swindler.

    Q: You call him a swindler?

    A: I call him a swindler. I can provide proofs in support of my assertion. I can reason it out also. Max Mueller had assumed that he was a scholar. From his own autobiography, from biographies written by his son and wife, from other biographies, from his other writings, and from his letters, we can reconstruct his life from birth to his death. After passing the High School, he never appeared in any examination rather never cleared any examination…Yet he calls himself a Master of Arts (MA). His wife calls him a Doctor of Philosophy. His wife maintains that he was a Ph. D. from the Leipzig University. There is no record at the Leipzig University or any proof that he appeared in any examination there.

    http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/10/20/max-mueller/

    Lies on Long Legs
     
  18. raja696

    raja696 Regular Member

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    Rajiv malhotra : breaking India

    Friedrich Max Müller


    While in the Veda we may study the childhood, we may study in Kant's Critique the perfect manhood of the Aryan mind.

    – Max Müller19

    Max Müller (1823–1900) was a descendant of the Romantic movement and its longings for civilization's origins. He also made many influential contributions to linguistics and religious studies. Like Renan, his prolific writings reached a wide readership. For more than forty years, both the scholars worked with the concept of race, using the categories of Aryan and Semite.20 But they differed in major ways. Max Müller took the position that no single culture had exclusively come up with monotheism, which was the common property of humanity, and that linguistic structures turned this into multiple religions, including both monotheistic and polytheistic forms.
    Max Müller did not want to use the Indian civilization to introduce polytheism into the

    development of Christianity the way Renan wanted to. Nor did he go the other way and try to make the Aryans appear monotheistic the way Pictet did (discussed later). Instead, he emphasized linguistic differences to explain the divergent religious views. Müller wanted a science of religions to reveal the divine in all things. The use of comparative methods, the new discipline, like other natural sciences, should strive to reveal the providential unity underlying the variegated world of appearances. This providential order had been inscribed in nature at the beginning of time, and it was the task of comparative philology and mythology to find its traces in myths and religions, among which Christianity of course occupied a unique position.21
    Max Müller served as a functionary for the colonialists and for Christian evangelists, while being deeply interested in ancient Indian texts. This orientation is reflected in one of his letters addressed to the duke of Orgoil, who was the British secretary of state for India. Müller wrote on 16 December 1868: 'The ancient religion of India is totally doomed and if Christianity doesn't step in whose fault will it be?' In a letter addressed to his wife in 1868, Müller also wrote: 'I hope I shall finish that work and feel convinced that though I shall not live to see it, yet this edition of mine and translation of Vedas will hereafter tell to a great extent on the fate of India and on the growth of millions of the souls in this country'. In the same letter, he further observed: '[The Veda] is the root of their religion and to show them what the root is, I feel sure, [is] the only way of uprooting all that has been sprung from it during the last three thousand years'.22 In other words, he saw contemporary Indian civilization, especially its multiple gods, as a corrupt form of ancient glory.

    Building on Max Müller's Work

    Prior to colonialism, the jati-varna system in India had little, if anything, to do with race, ethnicity, or genetics. It was better understood as a set of distinctions based on traditional or inherited social status derived from work roles. Jati is a highly localized and intricately organized social structure. One of the important aspects of jati, which was conspicuously overlooked by western Indologists, is its dynamic nature – allowing social mobility as well as occupational diversification.2 These rural social structures were more horizontally organized than vertically stratified. It was this inherent feature of the jati-varna system that led Gandhi to postulate the model of 'oceanic circle' for the ideal Indian village society, rather than the Western pyramidal model.3
    Nevertheless, the colonial imposition of the hierarchical view, coupled with distortions of jati in order to fit it into a racial framework, grossly distorted the characteristics of jati and greatly amplified its negative features. Max Müller, who was largely responsible for entrenching the racial framework for studying jati, had his own evangelical motive. In his view, caste:

    . . . which has hitherto proved an impediment to conversion of the Hindus, may in future became one of the most powerful engines for the conversion not merely of the individuals, but of whole classes of Indian society.4

    Max Müller's interpretation of the Rig Veda claimed that only the first three varnas are Aryan, while the fourth, shudra, is not Aryan. However, he explicitly admitted that there was no evidence of physical differences between Aryans and non-Aryans in Sanskrit texts. He made only one incidental reference to physical differences – that noses were described differently for different tribes in the Rig Veda. He based this notion on a single Sanskrit word, anasa (Rig Veda: V.29.10), that was used infrequently. Müller himself drew no important conclusions from this casual observation. But his prejudice was passed on through others who were more eager to do the dirty work openly. One of the common threads throughout the West's study of India has been the manner in which subsequent scholars pick and choose from someone else's work, often out of context, and with their own arbitrary assignment of priorities. This is what happened between Max Müller's writing and its manipulative use by Risley years later.
    The younger Risley was greatly influenced by the senior and legendary figure of Max Müller. The development of racist theories between these two men was an important step in shaping the future identities of people across India. Publicly, Müller was cautious and wanted to protect his image, so he criticized the use of linguistics for racial profiling. But indirectly and privately, he encouraged it in various ways. For instance, Müller gave the following input in a private letter to Risley, prior to Risley's census of 1901:

    It may be that in time the classification of skulls, hair, eyes, and skin may be brought into harmony with the classification of language. We may even go so far as to admit, as a postulate, that the two must have run parallel, at least in the beginning of all things.5

    In the same letter, he encouraged Risley by saying that students of ethnology have regarded 'the skull, as the shell of the brain' to be an indicator of 'the spiritual essence' of the person.6 In other words, Max Müller spoke from both sides of his mouth when it came to racial implications of cultural and linguistic factors. This ambiguity was often deliberately nuanced in codified terms, which enabled more blatantly racist men like Risley to proceed further.
    Ronald Inden has pointed out that Max Müller's caution against conflating language with race was an act of hypocrisy:

    We should not be misled by this into thinking that these scholars were anti-racist. They did not have to rely on a theory of race as such, for they had their own global theory that was fully able to inferiorize the languages (and by implication the cultures) of the other purely on linguistic grounds. Max Müller's linguistic taxonomy was a Hegelian hierarchy in which . . . cultural geography [becomes] the same as world history.7
     
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  19. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    You have to counter my points instead of telling me that I need a job,.

    You got paid back in the same coin. Now, don't whine.

    Act like a gentleman, and you will be treated like one.

    Go back and read my very first comment: "IMHO, you have not read all of Max Müller's opinions about India."

    I had said that it was my humble opinion. I take that "humble" part back. Will save it for those deserving of it.
    Source: http://www.goethe.de/ins/in/en/lp/uun/mxm.html

    Max Müller is not a swindler, but Rajiv Malhotra is an idiot of enormous proportions.

    Another idiot added to my list of idiots which includes Arun Shourie.

    What do these posts prove?

    If I have to form an opinion about Max Müller, I will read Max Müller.
    If you have to form an opinion about Max Müller, you will read Rajiv Malhotra, whoever the hell he is.

    Just about sums it all up.

    P.S.: Didn't read second the wall of text. Read the first one though.

    I was countering @Hari Sud, who said none of Max Müller's opinion about India was flattering. All I had to do is give one example to prove him wrong, and I have done so.


    Edit: One more link, but let's pretend all these are lies, an Rajiv Malhotra is Dharmraj Yudhishtir. :crazy:
    http://www.giffordlectures.org/lecturers/friedrich-max-müller
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2015
  20. prohumanity

    prohumanity Regular Member

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    Not only that Chinese are learning Sanskrit and Hindi...thousands of Chinese are learning Yoga.
    The real reason is that Chinese are now, very curious about India and its culture...esp. after PM Modi's China visit...there is a strong upsurge in Chinese curiosity about knowing India ..
     
  21. prohumanity

    prohumanity Regular Member

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    I don't know why my post came out in triplicate ?
     

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