The Brave Warrior - Prithviraj Chauhan - 1149-1192 AD

[Peter]

Oh Baba/ If Al Baruni existed and if Firdossi is an evidence then Chader Bardai is also an evidence.... ok..

Yeah he also existed.But what will you do when evidences are contradicting?Anyway I was asking why did Ghori spare Prithviraj at Tarain and not kill him instantly instead of keeping him alive for so long?

 

[Peter]

Brave but FOOLISH!!!

And the whole of India is suffering even today.

Brother I agree with you.But what could he do.Indian armies at that time periodlacked a proper cavalry component(unlike Turks or Arabs or French).Even if he had killed Ghori there would have been another one like Ghori in his place.Prithviraj tried his best and became a martyr.

 

[Bhadra]

watch in continuation from the previous and enjoy yourselves even at the cost of fantasy :



नहीं पराग नहीं मधुर मधु नहीं विकास इह काल

अली कली सौं बिंध्यौ आगे कौन हवाल ॥

 

[Pratap]

Brother I agree with you.But what could he do.Indian armies lacked a proper cavalry component.Even if he had killed Ghori there would have been another one like Ghori in his place.Prithviraj tried his best and became a martyr.

Ghori's elder brother was the true king and commanded larger armies than him. Prithviraj did not forgive ghori because he did not fall into hands of Chauhan. What really happened was that Ghori was involved in a hand to hand combat with Govindraj, broke his jaw, Govindraj in return attacked Ghori with mace and injuring him horribly. Ghori sustained serious injury and was about to fall from his horse when a khalji rider took him in his own horse and fled. Given that Turkish cavalry was far better, Prithviraj could not chase him. This is what the reality is. Prithviraj was no fool to forgive a serious enemy like Ghori.

 

[Bhadra]

@Bhadra
Not sure you have seen it or not but at 0:07 there is a disclaimer that says something about the episode.Maybe only ignorant,idiotic and rascal trolls like me see this things.I will post it here.

"Inspired by Prithviraj Raso by Chand Bardai.Prithviraj Raso language and literature by Dr.Nawwar Singh.History of Rajasthan by James Todd.Some characters may be fictional based on Folklore and popular legend to dramatize the narrative."

Also I know wikipedia cannot be "SITED".However can we cite a dramatic episode as evidence.No offence just asking you in jest???

What is important, my dear peter, is how I would like Prithavi Raj Chauhan to be seen and remembered. History as a narrative of past is for my present and my future and I would like many Ghories to be slain in my present and by my sons in future...... like the legendary or imaginatory Prithviraj did... For me that is history...

History is not a truth and fact finding commission...

Today, if Pakistan can name its missile as Ghori, I would like one of the lethal missile to be remembered for Prithvi Raj Chauhan..

Why are we so self hating and self apologetic.. Prithviraj Chauhan was and is what we believe in... period.

If you at all understand the purpose and philosophy of History...

 

[shinoj]

Ghori's elder brother was the true king and commanded larger armies than him. Prithviraj did not forgive ghori because he did not fall into hands of Chauhan. What really happened was that Ghori was involved in a hand to hand combat with Govindraj, broke his jaw, Govindraj in return attacked Ghori with mace and injuring him horribly. Ghori sustained serious injury and was about to fall from his horse when a khalji rider took him in his own horse and fled. Given that Turkish cavalry was far better, Prithviraj could not chase him. This is what the reality is. Prithviraj was no fool to forgive a serious enemy like Ghori.

Well, the wikipedia you trust so much has the following thing on this matter

Ghori led two regiments in an attack on the centre, where Ghori met Govinda Raja in personal combat. Govinda Raja, mounted on an elephant, lost his front teeth to Ghori's lance. As the battle continued, Ghori's army, exhausted in face of the persistent Rajput attacks and out of water, fled leaving their general Ghori as a prisoner in Chauhan's hands. Ghori was brought in chains to Pithoragarh, Prithviraj's capital, where he begged his victor for mercy and release. Prithviraj's ministers advised him against pardoning the aggressor but the chivalrous and valiant Prithviraj thought otherwise and respectfully released the vanquished Ghori. This which was a decision he would later come to regret. Muhammad Ghori started to regroup his forces again to defeat Chauhan the next year.

Prithivi pardoned Ghauri that time and should have killed him.

 

[Peter]

Ghori's elder brother was the true king and commanded larger armies than him. Prithviraj did not forgive ghori because he did not fall into hands of Chauhan. What really happened was that Ghori was involved in a hand to hand combat with Govindraj, broke his jaw, Govindraj in return attacked Ghori with mace and injuring him horribly. Ghori sustained serious injury and was about to fall from his horse when a khalji rider took him in his own horse and fled. Given that Turkish cavalry was far better, Prithviraj could not chase him. This is what the reality is. Prithviraj was no fool to forgive a serious enemy like Ghori.

Nice fact.I had also heard that the Turkish cavalry was very fast.

 

[Peter]

What is important, my dear peter, is how I would like Prithavi Raj Chauhan to be seen and remembered. History as a narrative of past is for my present and my future and I would like many Ghories to be slain in my present and by my sons in future...... like the legendary or imaginatory Prithviraj did... For me that is history...

History is not a truth and fact finding commission...

Today, if Pakistan can name its missile as Ghori, I would like one of the lethal missile to be remembered for Prithvi Raj Chauhan..

Why are we so self hating and self apologetic.. Prithviraj Chauhan was and is what we believe in... period.

If you at all understand the purpose and philosophy of History...

Look history should be all about facts.However I do find it admirable that you want us Indians to be proud of our ancestors.That is good.But do we really need to make up stories to make a man like Prithviraj great.He died in the battlefield fighting for his country.What honour can be greater than that.He became a martyr.Its immaterial whether he killed a pig like Ghori or not.IMO Ghori does not even deserve to be killed by the sword of a true person like Chauhan.Ghori was a rapist,mass murderer and a plunderer.
(Also Prithviraj was not foolish.He was a kind ruler.)

 

[Peter]

Well, the wikipedia you trust so much has the following thing on this matter

Prithivi pardoned Ghauri that time and should have killed him.

I have told you already that the wikipedia article has some neutrality and POV issues(especially this one).Go to the Talk page there you can see some of the references from ISBN books.

 

[shinoj]

Look history should be all about facts.However I do find it admirable that you want us Indians to be proud of our ancestors.That is good.But do we really need to make up stories to make a man like Prithviraj great.He died in the battlefield fighting for his country.What honour can be greater than that.He became a martyr.Its immaterial whether he killed a pig like Ghori or not.IMO Ghori does not even deserve to be killed by the sword of a true person like Chauhan.Ghori was a rapist,mass murderer and a plunderer.
(Also Prithviraj was not foolish.He was a kind ruler.)

And Ghori was a Cheater too... Attacking the Army at Night.

 

[Bhadra]

Look history should be all about facts.However I do find it admirable that you want us Indians to be proud of our ancestors.That is good.But do we really need to make up stories to make a man like Prithviraj great.He died in the battlefield fighting for his country.What honour can be greater than that.He became a martyr.Its immaterial whether he killed a pig like Ghori or not.IMO Ghori does not even deserve to be killed by the sword of a true person like Chauhan.Ghori was a rapist,mass murderer and a plunderer.
(Also Prithviraj was not foolish.He was a kind ruler.)

Dear Sir ... you better read - What is History -- EH Carr


History is not a narration but a useful narration for the purpose of the present..

 

[Peter]

And Ghori was a Cheater too... Attacking the Army at Night.

Night attack is not cheating since everything is allowed in love and war.Many generals before Ghori attacked in the night.See the Roman strategy in 458 BC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mons_Algidus it is true Prithviraj did not use any such shady tactics(if there is anything called shady tactic in war)

 

[Bhadra]

Well, the wikipedia you trust so much has the following thing on this matter

Ghori led two regiments in an attack on the centre, where Ghori met Govinda Raja in personal combat. Govinda Raja, mounted on an elephant, lost his front teeth to Ghori's lance. As the battle continued, Ghori's army, exhausted in face of the persistent Rajput attacks and out of water, fled leaving their general Ghori as a prisoner in Chauhan's hands. Ghori was brought in chains to Pithoragarh, Prithviraj's capital, where he begged his victor for mercy and release. Prithviraj's ministers advised him against pardoning the aggressor but the chivalrous and valiant Prithviraj thought otherwise and respectfully released the vanquished Ghori. This which was a decision he would later come to regret. Muhammad Ghori started to regroup his forces again to defeat Chauhan the next year.

Prithivi pardoned Ghauri that time and should have killed him.

Time will tell if it was right to take surrender of Gen Niazi and his 90, 000 soldiers and men in Bangladesh or they should have been gassed in a chamber

Time will tell if it was right for Indian conscience to honourably hand over bodies of Pakistani soldiers un-mutilated in Kargil or we should have exhibited the same barbarianism as the Pakistani mullah Army did with Saurabh kalia..

Decide.. these are things which decide the civilizational values and national ethos one would like to cherish..

 

[shinoj]

All the Talks and debating aside, I know for a Fact that Prithvi was a Brave and Valiant Indian Ruler, the kind of one who inspires generation along with Shivaji and Rana Pratap and i know for a fact that no Cambridge Educated far off disconnected from Reality Historian can Deny that.

To Prithvi - All Respect.... One regret which i have about him was he really should have massacred that old Dog Ghauri and ended that Story then and there itself.

 

[shinoj]

Night attack is not cheating since everything is allowed in love and war.Many generals before Ghori attacked in the night.See the Roman strategy in 458 BC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mons_Algidus)However it is true Prithviraj did not use any such shady tactics(if there is anything called shady tactic in war)

It really depends upon which side of the fence you are; Are you on that fence which says Everything is Allowed in Love and War or like the Khatriyas who had War Ethics while fighting.

There is a Difference between Us; who might choose to pardon the enemy one time and the Mughals or the Arabs who looted and performed all sorts of the War Crimes.

 

[Peter]

Dear Sir ... you better read - What is History -- EH Carr


History is not a narration but a useful narration for the purpose of the present..

If I can I will.However history should be about facts only.If we blur history with lies and force it upon people it will become mythology.Then the purpose of using history as a moral education source will be lost as people will describe it as a kahani(myth).

 

[Peter]

Night attack is not cheating since everything is allowed in love and war.Many generals before Ghori attacked in the night.See the Roman strategy in 458 BC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mons_Algidus)However it is true Prithviraj did not use any such shady tactics(if there is anything called shady tactic in war)
It really depends upon which side of the fence you are; Are you on that fence which says Everything is Allowed in Love and War or like the Khatriyas who had War Ethics while fighting.

There is a Difference between Us; who might choose to pardon the enemy one time and the Mughals or the Arabs who looted and performed all sorts of the War Crimes.

@shinoj
I am not on any side of the fence,just doing yoga and sitting on a lotus.

(Btw have you read Mahabharata.Do you know of some of the tactics employed by the Kauravas and Pandavas?Or how Ramachandra(the god whom I revere) killed Vali. Here take wikipedia.Later you can read the ramyana version which I have done umpteen times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vali_(Ramayana))

 

[Pratap]

@shinoj @Bhadra

Why you people are describing me as self hating? I am a man with immense pride in Indian civilization and its glories and will write a thread sometime later.

I do not regard any Islmaic rulers as " Indians" and accept that our missiles should be named after Shivaji and Prithviraj and Lalitaditya.

However, is it right and dharmic to tell lies? Is it sin to tell truth? Prithviraj was killed by ghori so what? We consider him as our hero and so we must have memorials dedicated to him, documentaries on him, but why fiction?

 

[Pratap]

Well, the wikipedia you trust so much has the following thing on this matter

Ghori led two regiments in an attack on the centre, where Ghori met Govinda Raja in personal combat. Govinda Raja, mounted on an elephant, lost his front teeth to Ghori's lance. As the battle continued, Ghori's army, exhausted in face of the persistent Rajput attacks and out of water, fled leaving their general Ghori as a prisoner in Chauhan's hands. Ghori was brought in chains to Pithoragarh, Prithviraj's capital, where he begged his victor for mercy and release. Prithviraj's ministers advised him against pardoning the aggressor but the chivalrous and valiant Prithviraj thought otherwise and respectfully released the vanquished Ghori. This which was a decision he would later come to regret. Muhammad Ghori started to regroup his forces again to defeat Chauhan the next year.

Prithivi pardoned Ghauri that time and should have killed him.

I do no trust wikipedia without citations. I have already described books written by professional historians( including those who are called as hindu communalists) and if you did not notice, it is your problem.

 

[Pratap]

@shinoj
I am not on any side of the fence,just doing yoga and sitting on a lotus.

(Btw have you read Mahabharata.Do you know of some of the tactics employed by the Kauravas and Pandavas?Or how Ramachandra(the god whom I revere) killed Vali. Here take wikipedia.Later you can read the ramyana version which I have done umpteen times.
Vali (Ramayana) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Mahabharata and Ramayana may have exceptions but general tone was to follow war ethics. Ram did not mutilate corpse of Ravana but respectfully ordered Vibhisana to cremate it saying" enemity ends with body". The case of Bali was rare because of boon.