The apologists of Islamic Terrorism, and their flawed arguments

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by rock127, Jul 6, 2016.

  1. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    The apologists of Islamic terrorism, and their flawed arguments

    Every time a terror attack is carried out by Islamic groups, we see a flurry of commentators rushing to say “this has got nothing to do with religion”. Every time they take extra measures to explain why religion must not be blamed, and almost every time they are wrong.

    Let’s see some of the recent smokescreens that were created by the apologists for Islamic terrorism:

    Orlando nightclub shooting:it wasn’t hatred for gays. It was the because of easy availability of guns.

    This argument totally ignores the fact that in 10 Muslim countries, there is a death penalty for Homosexuality. Guess it was the gun that wrote their constitutions too! Maybe in Saudi Arabia they stone women who commit adultery because of easy availability of stones? And ISIS throws gays off buildings in Syria because there is gravity in Raqqa!

    Charlie Hebdo massacre: Those cartoons were provocative! It was the ISIS. There are just 0.1% extremists among all Muslims!

    This argument again ignores the fact that there is death penalty for blasphemy and insulting the Prophet in 10 Islamic countries. Either their constitutions have been written by ISIS or the moderates there aren’t moderate enough. Or even they have misinterpreted the book.

    If you draw a cartoon of Prophet Muhammad in Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the state will kill you. In Non-Islamic Republics like France, ISIS will kill you.

    Yet leaders of these Islamic republics condemn ISIS with platitudes like ‘Islam means peace’ and ‘Killing one man is like killing the whole humanity’. Difference is – Islamic republics kill within their boundaries, while the ISIS is more amorphous. ISIS does it across the globe. At best, they should be condemning ISIS for not respecting international borders.

    Istanbul airport attack: victims were Muslims, so how can the terrorists be Muslims?

    Are the women who are stoned to death for adultery not Muslims? Or are gays who are executed in Islamic republics not Muslims? There are punishments for Muslims too in Islamic countries. Imagine the argument. Pakistan is not Islamic republic because it punishes Muslims for blasphemy.

    We must distinguish Muslim as an identity and Islam as a faith.

    Javed Akhtar is a Muslim by identity, but not by faith. He is an atheist. In Saudi Arabia, he can be executed for calling himself an atheist. Would you then argue that how can Saudi Arabia execute a Muslim? Basically, actions inspired by faith prevail over the identity.

    For ISIS, faith matters more than the identity. Shias and Sunnis are both Muslims, but differ in matter of faith. That’s what the whole conflict is about – about putting one brand of faith over the others. So when ISIS kills Muslims, it’s to declare supremacy of a faith, not of any identity.

    In fact, ISIS often claims that their ranks have no such identity of nationality, race, language, colour, etc. – only the faith binds them.

    Dhaka restaurant attack: <the arguments were changing as the apologists struggled to find the best one>

    Gun control argument doesn’t work here in Dhaka as the terrorists used knives and machetes. Provocation or hurt sentiments work neither, as the guests at restaurant were not involved in any outrageous act (unless eating in the holy month of Ramadan was that act; but even the terrorists have not said that, so I hope the apologists won’t invent such arguments).

    The apologists tried to use the argument they had used during Istanbul attack – terrorists have targeted a Muslim majority country, so it has got nothing to do with religion – but that argument soon fell flat when it turned out that the terrorists let go off the people who could recite verses of the Quran (same had happened during 26/11 also; Muslim Turkish couple was let go by the Jihadis. Same during a Hotel Siege by Boko Haram.)

    But the apologists are creative; they came up with a new argument – what kind of Muslims kill during the holy month of Ramadan?

    I don’t know! But in 624 AD, the first Holy War (Jihad) under the leadership of Prophet was waged on Non-Muslims of Mecca during the month of Ramadan. It’s celebrated as the Battle of Badr.

    Direct Action Day, which led to widespread riots and killings across India before partition, was announced by Muslim League on August 16th, 1946; during Ramadan. In fact, Muslim League mentioned the Battle of Badr as inspiration.


    [​IMG]
    The statement by Muslim League

    Apart from these, there is a long list of battles and wars that were carried out by Islamic nations and Muslim groups in the month of Ramadan.

    Therefore, violence and killings in the month of Ramadan is not really as “unislamic” as the apologists would like you to believe.

    Now if you counter such arguments with facts and logic, the apologists would say that these would lead to spike in hate crimes against Muslims. Apart from explaining how “it has got nothing to do with religion” they must resist Islamophobia.

    But dear apologists, attacks in Paris, Orlando, Brussels, Istanbul or Dhaka don’t lead to Islamophobia, intersection of ISIS beliefs with state laws in so called moderate Islamic countries do.

    Heads of these republics condemn ISIS saying it doesn’t represent Islam, yet they share the same beliefs and give the same treatments to gays, apostates and blasphemers.

    How can it be that when ISIS kills gays, blasphemers, apostates, or “kuffars”, it is perversion of Islam, but when Islamic republics like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Mauritiana, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Nigeria, Qatar, do it, it is moderate version of Islam?

    How come the Extremists of ISIS and Moderates in Islamic countries reach the same “misinterpretations” of the book in matters regarding Blasphemy, Apostasy, Homosexuality, and some other aspects of the faith?

    When 2.5 lakh Muslims out of about 24 lakh in Malda or 1 lakh in Muzaffarnagar march out asking for death to Kamlesh Tiwari, yes, it gives rise to Islamophobia. It’s terrifying because 2.5 lakh ‘normal people’ from one district are sharing the same beliefs with ISIS, with regards to punishment for blasphemy. That’s about 10% of total Muslims in that district.

    But if one of them joins ISIS tomorrow, and kills Kamlesh Tiwari, we will say that he got self-radicalised. That he is a lone wolf, a misguided youth. We will start asking questions about what radicalised him. Babri, Gaza, Iraq, 2002, and the list will go on.

    We will forget the placard he carried during the procession that said, “Rasool e Gustakhi ki Sazaa, Sir tan se Juda!” (beheading is the punishment for insulting the prophet).

    Islamic State is not a State. It’s an idea, shared by many more than we would like to admit due to fear of being politically incorrect. It’s the same idea that led to Partition of India. It’s the same idea that leads to terrorists attacks virtually every second day. And it has been this way for the past 1400 years and will remain so unless we shed the political correctness and discuss the problem with the idea.

    “It has got nothing to do with religion” is a clever way to end the discussion, and unfortunately 99% of all the arguments after terror attacks are on similar lines.



    =======================================================================================
    A VERY interesting article based on plain and simple Historical FACTS.

    The month of Ramzan is historically used to raise wars and Kill Non-Muslims around the world.

    A TIGHT SLAP for all those Terrorist Apologists and Sympathizers who have no excuse left.

    Let's discuss.

    @Abhijat @A chauhan @Alien @alphacentury @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @Bharat Ek Khoj @blueblood @brational @Bangalorean @Blackwater @Bornubus @bose @cobra commando @DingDong @DFI_COAS @ersakthivel @fooLIam @gpawar @guru-dutt @hit&run @Indx TechStyle @jackprince @Kharavela @Illusive @I_PLAY_BAD @LETHALFORCE @Lions Of Punjab @maomao @Mad Indian @OneGrimPilgrim @Peter @pmaitra @porky_kicker @Razor @raja696 @Rowdy @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @saty @sydsnyper @Srinivas_K @Screambowl @sorcerer @Simple_Guy @Sylex21 @wickedone @tarunraju @TrueSpirit2 @thethinker @vayuu1 @VIP @Vishwarupa @VIP @Varahamihira @roma
     
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  3. FRYCRY

    FRYCRY Regular Member

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    539202_10151098469687740_1820751410_n.jpg

    ...........................................
     
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  4. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian Unplugged Version Senior Member

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    @rock127
    You forgot to tag our hawala boy @Neo

    Radical Islam is disease that should be contained before it spreads to all over the globe.
     
  5. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Pakis on their forum closed the thread on this same topic out of fear. :rofl:

    Ok let's call them though they would think 100 times before replying since their Religion of Peace stands exposed.Latest is that a Paki was one of the suicide bombers in Saudi Arabia and that too outside Prophet Mosque. :lol:

    Shameless inbred Pakis are even worse than Saudis.

    Our esteemed Terrorist Paki Panel: @Neo @Raja.pakistani @Zarvan @musalman @Zulfiqar Khan

    Oye beigaraito... lanat hai tum converts per who are involved in Terrorism all over the world.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
  6. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    The problem is .. Muslims will never condemn those who are involved in such activities. But they will start saying, Islam is this Islam is that ...
     
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  7. OrangeFlorian

    OrangeFlorian #GoldAndBlack Senior Member

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    If you try to remind them of their own past and their own texts to counter their own repulsive illogical circle jerking you might just shut them up but never completely believe me I've tried.:dude:
     
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  8. DingDong

    DingDong Senior Member Senior Member

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    We don't need this Mass Murderer's statements to justify or deny a fact which is so obvious. Most of the wars Muslims fought under the leadership of Abu Bakr, the right hand man of their prophet were expansionist and not defensive. They butchered and tortured their opponents and took the children and women of opponents as slaves.

    Politics and Religion can not be separated in Islam. It sees every non-Muslim as it's enemy.
     
  9. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    what a SPLENDID article! 'sticky' material! opindia team need to be thanked and commended for publishing this!
    Tapatalked!
     
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  10. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    we may've been late by a few hundred years.

    how do you differentiate between 'radical' islam & islam?! the 'popular' latter is an artificially little stabilised compound of the former. it erupts into its violent primal state no soon a few 'reaction-inducing' salts & catalyser enzymes are thrown into its crucible. there is hence a very thin line differentiating the two, as the article too tells so well.
     
  11. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Thanks for tagging me, Rock-ji, aka @rock127.

    I have a few counter questions.

    I keep hearing, why don't Muslims speak up, why are Muslims not doing anything, why do Muslims keep saying terrorism is not all about Islam, etc..

    Well, Muslims are doing, and doing far better than their critics. Tens of thousands of Muslims are fighting ISIS in Syria and Iraq. Tens of thousands have already lost their lives. Why do people never mention these people? Even after doing the bulk of the heavy lifting, while the Russian and Americans are bombing from the skies, why do people keep saying that Muslims need to speak up. Is paying in blood, life, and limb, in thousands, not sufficient enough?

    With this type of rhetorical propaganda, it is easy to alienate all Muslims. It is not a winning strategy. Instead of demonizing all Muslims, we need to strengthen those that are fighting and defeat ISIS and all other types of terrorism.
     
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  12. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian Unplugged Version Senior Member

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    For sake of God, I am giving a backdoor in our arguments with full of constrains to some of them.
    Even if moderate muslims doesn't exist in reality, lets hope we are wrong about it.

    If it erupts into its violent primal state on trigger notice, remember we sanghi carry big sticks.
    Hope you caught my drift.
     
  13. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian Unplugged Version Senior Member

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    Pakis have no love lost for Mecca or Medina.
    What can you expect form cheap converts like them?

    Their grand dads are cowards who converted to Islam in fear. Piss flow though their veins. Hence the radical winds.
     
  14. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Examples are all good. Muslims fighting ISIS Taliban etc. Afteral what could they do in selfdefence when their 'Biradayraan' are setting their house on fire. Real question is do they care other's houses getting burned. I mean of non muslim?

    Recently, their was an article on miserable life of Hindus and Sikhs in Afghanistan.
    But this is happening in a far country whose damages are being patched by us by paying through nose. Never mind. That's far away. During T-20 world cup on the night India was defeated i like many of my neighbors witnessed fireworks from nearby muslim dominated colony. And during ramadan restrictions on madirs playing loudspeakers is usual practice in many India. Just google. As a matter of fact it has happened in my present locality as well.

    Now people may be busy with Taliban or now fancy ISIS my concerns stays with sprouts of radicalization and intolerance that forms very root of any terrorist organization.

    If Pakistan and Bangladesh has lesser minority in percentage than India. Then it has much to do with ideals of majority than governments. Not to forget that many of these were our once peaceful, loving, caring, tolerent and blah blah blah neighbour.
     
  15. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    @Rahul Singh - a very pertinent post!
    irfan habib recently tweeted to the effect that till now muslims killing Hindus et al was 'understandable' but now muslims killing muslims?! oh bullah! thats insane!! such occasional gems are what reveal the 'roots' of the peacephool, whatever garb (leftist, atheist) s/he may be in.

    while burqa beetch can keep bitching about how most focus is on Dhaka attack but not on home-issues like 'Kashmiri academic toppers turning militants'....


    Tapatalked!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
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  16. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    check what these vaachaspatis had to say:

    http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...ijtihad-are-misinterpreted/article5536864.ece

    the last para and esp. its last line is particularly interesting.

    yeah, it'll pass after everybody passes away.



    Tapatalked!
     
  17. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    I will not comment since I am not marked.
     
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  18. Tony HMG

    Tony HMG Regular Member

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    Excellent article. Radical jihadi muslims kill unarmed people. Moderate muslims support them by remaining quite.
    These idiot apologists in India will always find a way to defend Islamic terror. These Indian jihadi muslims did the azad maidan rampage citing the rohingya muslims issue and the mumbai police was told to not fire on them! Next day onwards the apologists started their defence of these muslims as misguided youths and what not. Before tackling the Islamic leeches, we need to eliminate these apologists who support them.
     
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  19. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    most crucial!
    demolish the support first...
     
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  20. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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  21. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    This Former Islamic Fundamentalist Debunks The Argument That 'ISIS Has Nothing To Do With Islam'

    Every time there is a terror attack carried by the Islamic State, a cliched argument that Muslims have is "ISIS is not Islam and they have nothing to do with Islam."

    [​IMG]

    AP

    In fact a lot of them point out the fact that the majority of victims the of ISIS attacks, be it in Iraq, Syria, Turkey or anywhere else are Muslims themselves.

    So they raise the question "how can someone who kill fellow Muslims can be a Muslim?"
    This is the same argument which is widely posted by liberal Muslims to distance themselves from radical Islam.

    However Maajid Nawaz, a former Islamic fundamentalist from Britain, who left it to now become counter-extremist has trashed this claim in a powerful Facebook post.


    [​IMG]


    Nawaz, a British born, had in the early 2000's travelled to Egypt and was a member of Hizb-ut-Tahrir, an outfit which aimed to re-establish "the Islamic Khilafah (Caliphate)" or Islamic state.

    He also spent four year in jail in Egypt for his links with the group. But in 2007 he left the group and founded a counter extremism think tank.


    [​IMG]

    The Guardian

    Now a prominent Islamic voice against extremism, Nawaz also acted as British Prime Minister David Cameron's advisor on anti-extremism.

    This is what he had to say about how Islamic State is Islam.

    There is a pernicious, disingenuous meme floating around. It goes: "ISIS have killed Muslims in Istanbul, Dhaka, Baghdad and now the holy city of Madina. So leave us alone, ISIS has nothing to do with Islam!"

    A) What exactly is the point here? ISIS are still from among us Muslims. They still adopt a version of Islam that happens to be found in our scripture (eg: stone women, kill apostates, chop off limbs) to justify their actions.

    B) Think how insulting we sound. 'They can't be Muslims because they're killing other Muslims'. As if killing non-Muslims would somehow make us accept they have something to do with Islam??

    C) Religious extremism throughout the ages has targeted its 'own' before others. That's the nature of trying to control people. And that's why extremists were always so concerned with 'heresy' and 'blasphemy'. The 'traitor' from within is always more dangerous, and thus always more strictly punished. The Prophet's own grand children were killed by Muslim extremists known as the khawarij who were reported to be better at reciting the Quran & more steadfast in prayer than anyone else.

    D) The fact is, claiming that ISIS has *nothing* to do with Islam is as unhelpful and ignorant as saying ISIS *is* Islam per se. It's blindingly obvious they have *something* to do with Islam and everyone's laughing at us for trying to deny this.

    Instead of whining and making our first reaction about Muslim victimhood, again, why not try being part of the solution by working to challenge extremism? Or are cartoons the only thing that make us come out in the streets with rage?
     
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