Thai Muslims Protest Buddhist Schools...

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by sanjay, Jul 16, 2011.

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  1. sanjay

    sanjay Regular Member

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  3. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    And someone says Muslims are being discriminated against.... Tell me which community does the entire Islamic community not have a problem with?

    Christians:

    US, UK, Canada, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Russia, Serbia, Philippines, Australia...

    Jews:

    Israel

    Buddhists/Hindus/Sikhs:

    Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Thailand, Burma, China etc.

    Zoroastrians:

    Old Iran

    Africans (animists, shamanists etc):

    Kenya, Tanzania, Mozambique, Somalia and another dozen countries, North/South Sudan division etc.

    _____________________

    That's practically much of the known world.

    - The Muslim society proposes retention of Islamic culture in 45-55 countries that are Islamic either by majority of demography or by constitution or a mixture of both.

    -The Muslim community while being so particular about their countries' laws and religion's practises, always keep asking for more and more concession from non-Muslim governments around the world wherever they stay. Whether it is benefits, additional facilities (like Europe, Americas etc) or something else, always keep asking. If someone counter-questions, he or she is immediately named as an Islamophobe and joined by condemning by secularists who refuse to even listen to the other side of such stories.

    Then how can there be any equality or absence of any covert dislike? When questioned about such matter, immediately someone will take out books after books and verses after verses and claiming that we're all stupid and brainwashed and intolerant against Muslims society and that they're only correct.

    Then how can there be a peaceful solution found for any society vis a vis Muslim community if they don't allow equality in their own countries but at the same time demand this and that in others' countries where they're already treated as equals?



    Wonder why some people just want to escape this rather than acknowledge and correct this intolerance factor?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  4. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    @sanjay

    Do you even know what is happening in south Thailand, or is every crime committed by any Muslim is somehow an implication of the entire Muslim community in that. Here are some facts about Thailand that you should know.

    The majority of the Thailand's Muslims (82%) live outside the insurgency area with their biggest concentration being in Bangkok.

    The insurgency is in the south in Malay majority areas. There is a 40-50 year history of Malays in this region demanding autonomy and independence. The Thai govt. increasingly cut off autonomy proposals including removing Malay language and forcing Thai language and culture in the southern provinces. A little like the Tamils in Sri Lanka who wanted to retain their Tamil heritage. Here is the map for your perusal on the malay majority areas in Thailand. This area of Pattani was also a separate kingdom about 200 years ago when it was annexed by Siam (presentday Thailand)
    [​IMG]

    In 2006, Thai Army Chief Sonthi Boonyaratglin, himself a Muslim, suggested that former communist insurgents might be playing a role in the unrest. Many police officers who were killed by the insurgents were also Thai muslims.

    So now that you know the historical context, if there is an insurgency in south Thailand that has going on for a long time, and has been mostly around Malay Muslims who had taken a communist leftist stance and only recently has taken the Islamist tinge while the majority of the Thai muslims are not part of the insurgency, doesn't your post seem a bit out of place?

    Do read up here on the Thai insurgency here South Thailand insurgency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and Islam in Thailand here Islam in Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    There is no excuse for innocent to be killed in any shape or form. Even if this was about a legitimate demand for Malay autonomy. Just like there is a legitimate demand for Tamils to get autonomy and their cultural rights in Sri Lanka but their insurgency and later attacks on civilians could not be justified. But still we can understand that the root cause of the problem in Sri Lanka was not because Tamils were Hindus and Hinduism was the main issue, but because the Sri Lankan govt. had consistently denied political and cultural rights to Tamils that they rightly deserved. This is the same situation in Southern Thailand were you have Malay majority provinces who happen to be Muslims. And just how when you have COIN operations going on, there is a great possibility of HR abuses, like what the Sri Lankan army did to Tamils, the same thing is happening in southern Thailand which creates a cycle of violence.

    The title is completely misleading because Thai Muslims have not protested against Buddhist schools or anything of that sort. The news linked mentions a shootout but unknown gunman possibly insurgents who have killed not only non-Muslims but also Muslims in the region who want to negotiate with the government. Pretty much like how the LTTE killed Tamils who would negotiate with the govt. or side with them. Just like for example insurgents in Kashmir killed recently a Ahle-Hadees cleric who condemned stone pelting and supported the elected govt.

    To compare this with Banerjee - who does not even represent except the fringe of Hindus in Cannada and is a known malinger of Sikhs and Muslims there - just doesn't make any sense. Here you have a full fledged ethinic insurgency where innocent people are killed by insurgents both Muslims and non-Muslims while there are HR abuses by the COIN forced.


    @Teshring22

    I am really surprised by your post, I thought you were one of the reasonable ones. Coming up with a theory and trying fix up "proofs" on the basis of that is really no proof at all. In fact, anyone who has an idea of world politics would be scratching his head on what you have written. Entire Islamic community has problem with UK Australia, really? Now that some Hindus have been beaten up there, does that mean Hindus have a problem with Australia too? In every Muslim country, non-Muslims have right to practice their religion. There are Hindu and Sikh temples in Bahrain, Oman and UAE. There are Jewish Synagogues and Zorastrian temples in Iran and so on. The only exception is Saudi Arabia and personally I think even that has to change eventually. Not allowing non-Muslims to practice their faith is in itself UnIslamic.

    Here is a thought experiment for you but only if you are brave enough to do it. Consider that Muslims are people just like yourself. With the same diversity of opinion and hopes and aspirations. With both extremists and moderates among them. And then see if you can understand their pov. The problem happens when you consider Muslims as the "other" who are just not good enough and should be looked down upon.

    Insurgencies for ethnic and linguistic groups to establish their own nation state happens around the world. There are plenty in Africa where non-muslims insurgents in sub saharan Africa fight brutal wars with child soldiers too. There is the same case of FARC rebels in Latin America. The PKK in Turkey is fighting for a Kurdish state even though they are Muslims. In India we have similarly Tribals fighting for a separate state as well. Similarly many of the conflicts that have only recently got an "Islamist" tinge post the 1980s worldwide training of such group in Afghanistan have had these conflicts going on as secular nationalist movements for many years. The PLO and struggle in Palestine for their own nation state did not start as an Islamist struggle. Yasser Arafat always used a leftist language and talked about Arab and Palestinian nationalism. His wife was a Palestinian Christian. Again it was only in the 80s where you had HAMAS become more powerful and in some cases was encouraged by Israel to cause a split in the PLO movement that you had an Islamist tinge to the Palestinian struggle take place.

    I hope you look at this other perspective because you do seem to be intelligent and I enjoyed reading some interesting analysis from you and so hopefully you would be able to see a more broader perspective rather than just that "Muslims have a problem with everybody" thought.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
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  5. sanjay

    sanjay Regular Member

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    Ejaz, clearly there are Malays in every sphere of Thai society - the top general leading the Thai army is an ethnic Malay. This is the same army that always overthrows the popularly elected govt. The last coup was led by him.

    Nextly, Malaysia is feeding the insurgency in Southern Thailand. Malaysia is itself run by an undemocratic govt which massively discriminates in favour of the ethnic Malay Muslim majority.

    Furthermore, why are Malays in South Thailand attacking Buddhists, who have themselves always lived there? Why are they particularly resorting to religious punishments like beheading? You can't tell me that medieval acts of barbarism like beheadings are just some random coincidence - it's pretty obvious that these militant groups are sectarian fanatics. They're even beheading small children for goodness' sakes - look at that video.

    I don't see religious minorities in Pakistan or Bangladesh forming militant groups. I don't see any Muslims suffering beheadings - except at the hands of other Muslims.
     
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  6. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Ejaz, everytime something like this happens, you come up jumping for the defense. I have given you the examples of all the countries and not just Buddhist or mainstream Hindu or asiatic but even non-Asian. Tell me can you prove me wrong after using Google? I don't think so.

    The intensity is very severe in southern Thailand and as bad as Kashmir of 90s. Do YOU know what is going on in that country? Maybe, maybe not. I on the other hand am quite aware of it. Rather than pointing fingers at me and being "surprised about" me, you should be wondering and researching what is that single determinant that causes such incompatibility among Muslim communities in different parts of the world wherever they become significant majority or anywhere close to majority.

    Just because Thai government is a loser like Congress and downplaying terrorism doesn't mean that this problem is as small as it is shown.

    This is the wrong step you are doing--- making us look guilty rather than encouraging an introspection like how many modern Muslims want to change and reform.
     
  7. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    I think it the 'fear' of muslims that makes people group all of them together and then judge the whole group from the actions of the worst lot.

    I must commend ejazr and yusuf for staying around and defending themselves because of activities done by muslims from far flung corners of the world as if they are all interconnected. Its ludicrous to accuse a person from another country, culture and even race for the actions of others just because they share the same religion.
     
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  8. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    What gives rise to this particular "fear" about Muslims that almost all major religions (Hinduism.Christianity, Jews, Sikhs,Buddhists) share ?

    Any introspection ?
     
  9. Tronic

    Tronic Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Sikhs fear no one. :cool:

    Love for all.
     
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  10. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    People fear what they don't understand. And most religious people don't understand much, so its not surprising that they would have much to fear.
     
  11. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    The problem is most of the Muslims (some section of each ethnic/country have problem with all religions. Hindus or Jews, Zoroastrian or Sikh, Christian or Buddhist. [I am not saying all Muslims, But everyday i read same kind of story that some Muslims of this or that country have problem with that religion and did some atrocities against minorities]

    Check around 50 Majority Muslim countries -- Minorities are in worst condition.
    Check around 150 Non-Muslim majority countries - Muslims are in better condition.

    Who is killing Muslims in Muslim majority countries ?? Mostly Muslim themselves (Assad of Syria, Taliban of Afghanistan, Sunni of Pakistan, KPP of Iran,Turkey, Iraq).

    They ask Shria law, blasphemy law in Muslim majority condition, But Secularism in Non-Muslim country.

    What if tomorrow NYPD kills 5 Muslims for some valid reason??? 10 day protest and abusive/racists comment against US and Christian everywhere. But what about Million of Non-Muslim living in worst condition in Muslim majority ? No Answer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  12. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    LOL If christians and jews were fearing they wouldn't be occupying muslim lands and dropping bombs.
     
  13. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    According to your post muslims should fear muslims :laugh:

    And the houlier than thou attitude is always laughable. when some fashion designer put picture of hindu gods on underwear then even there were protests by rss, bajrang dal etc.
     
  14. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    Again side stepped the question I was asking.

    The word "fear" was used in the context /as a synonym of "suspicious".

    Ok let me re-phrase the question - do you think the Islamophobia -which we can see in varying degrees all over the world - arises out of a vaccuum and Islam is completely faultless in that case ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  15. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    A reply that bares the fact that you did not understand a word of my question.

    Read teh question, understand it..more importantly the context and then attempt replying.

    Would you not object if someone puts your parent's picture on their underwear or shoes ?

    Please spare us the rhetoric.

    There is a difference in protesting legally/peacefully against something that you perceive hurts your religion and go about taking a gun and shooting others/exploding bombs etc.

    BTW We all saw what you people(self declared liberals/intellectuals) did when Da Vinci code was released in India. ;)
     
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The Saudis are in a very expansive way spreading their form of Islam worldwide. Malaysia is in such a grip, especially the Malaysian provinces of Kelantan and Terengganu. 2008 Malaysian general election, the ultra Muslim party (Persatuan Islam Sa-Malaya (Pan-Malayan Islamic Association), made a comeback in Kelantan, winning 38 out of 45 seats as well as managing to take control of the west coast state of Kedah.

    It would not be surprising if the PAS is actively fomenting trouble in Southern Thailand.
     
  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The Saudis are in a very expansive way spreading their form of Islam worldwide. Malaysia is in such a grip, especially the Malaysian provinces of Kelantan and Terengganu. 2008 Malaysian general election, the ultra Muslim party (Persatuan Islam Sa-Malaya (Pan-Malayan Islamic Association), made a comeback in Kelantan, winning 38 out of 45 seats as well as managing to take control of the west coast state of Kedah.

    It would not be surprising if the PAS is actively fomenting trouble in Southern Thailand.

    The Thai Govt is equally smart wherein they have a Muslim military Chief so that the use of the Army to quell disturbances cannot be made into a communal issue.

    In so far as Muslims having problems with all other religions, it must be remembered that it is a 'young' religion and its ranks have swelled by aggressive proselytism; and since, of late, there has developed the 'siege' mentality, they are going whole hog in demanding their space to include armed struggle and interventions in foreign lands.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  18. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    wtf are you on ?

    drawing demeaning cartoons of mohammed is equally insulting to muslims as putting hindu gods on underwear is to hindus. i never condone going out of ones way to demean the sentiments of large groups of people.

    from my personal point of i dont care whoever they mock since religion means nothing. da vinci code eh ? how about when modi banned that movie in gujarat about the parsi boy being killed in riots ? indulging in double standards are we ? :lol:
     
  19. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    He said killing 5 Muslims for a "valid reason"; while painting Hindu gods on Underwear is not a "valid reason".RSS protest is valid if compared to that scenario...
     
  20. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    I think you didn't understood what i meant to say.

    I didn't said Muslim should fear Muslims, I said Most of the Muslims are killed my Muslims only but still Muslims of many countries targets Non-Muslims.

    What's wrong in RSS/Bajrang dal protest against such things? If same things happens with Quaran, There will be Fatwa. Isn't it ?
     
  21. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    Yeah!!
    Not only Fatwa, accused will face no prosecution he will get beheaded in an open street !!
     
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