terror delinked from talks with pakistan!

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by nitesh, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Game over guys, this is not a good development, I think we should now wait for next attack :(
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    Terror delinked from talks with Pakistan: Rediff.com news

    Prime Minister Manmohan Singh [ Images ] and Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani [ Images ] on Thursday issued a joint statement after the completion of their dialogue, on the sidelines of the Non-Aligned summit, at Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt [ Images ].

    Gilani described the talks, the second top-level meeting between India and Pakistan since the terror attack on Mumbai in November last year, as 'free and frank'.

    Both Gilani and Dr Singh felt that composite dialogue was the way forward for the two countries, said the Pakistan PM.

    'Terrorism is a threat to both countries. Action on terror will not be linked to the composite dialogue,' said the joint statement.

    The statement made no mention of the contentious issue of Kashmir.

    During the meeting, Dr Singh asked his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani to ensure that perpetrators of the Mumbai terror attacks [ Images ] are brought to justice.

    Gilani assured Dr Singh that Pakistan would do everything in its power to punish the perpetrators of 26/11.

    India and Pakistan have also agreed to share real-time, credible and actionable information on any future terror threats.
     
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  3. 1.44

    1.44 Member of The Month SEPTEMBER 2009 Senior Member

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    BJP walks out of Lok Sabha over India-Pakistan statement

    BJP walks out of Lok Sabha over India-Pakistan statement

    India's main opposition Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) staged a walkout in the Lok Sabha on Friday, alleging the government had capitulated to Pakistan on the terrorism issue, soon after Prime Minister Manmohan Singh read out a statement on his meeting with his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani.

    "You have delinked terrorism and the composite dialogue. Why have you taken seven months to decide on this?" queried BJP leader LK Advani before leading his party members out of the lower house of parliament.

    Advani alleged that India had surrendered to Pakistan government's insistence that action against terror groups should not be linked to the resumption to the dialogue process.

    Manmohan Singh gave a summary of his visit to France and then to Egypt for the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) and said that 'meaningful dialogue' with Pakistan will depend on Islamabad fulfilling its promise of acting against the perpetrators of the 26/11 terror strikes.

    BJP walks out of Lok Sabha over India-Pakistan statement<BR>- Hindustan Times
     
  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I think US pressure is involved in this.
    Even so nothing was happening so far before this statement and nothing will in the future.
    Lots of statements in various regards have been made but no concrete actions have ever been taken.
     
  5. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    this government started with a bang and was really impressive when one heard the kapil sibal's and kamal nath's of this government and one wondered is it still india that we are living in, but the story ended there and took a rude turn when in came the economic policy in terms of the recently presented budget which was such a drab to say the least and now the foreign policy debacle that we have seen off late. first was the g8 where india got a shock coming from the us and now the recently held cario meet between our pm and his pakistani counterpart.

    it is truly amazing how the indian tone changed from moscow to cairo. diplomacy as far as i'm concerned has always been an art of creating circumstances from where one speaks from a point of strength, and that position of strength was handed over to pakistan on a platter by our bureaucracy and the government.

    i wont be exaggerating wee bit if i were to say that i had visualized that india would cave in easily to the prospects of a dialog with pak post the election process and with a new government in, but this easily, well i had never imagined that and how sad this is happening and this just shows how easily our policy makers can take us the voters for a ride.

    pakistan was looking for a window of opportunity from where they could get a chance to say that they have done all they could do and the only way forward is a dialog with india, and it is india's responsibility to take the process forward and we so happily gave that opportunity to them. but seriously amongst all this utter idiotic behavior what was the need to include baluchistan.

    they say they have nothing to hide then what is the need to talk on the issue, it should have been an open and shut case from india's point of view. so tomorrow pakistan says they suspect indian hand in rural punjab or pok or sindh so would we also talk about these issues on suspected indian involvement. such a disgusting effort and diplomacy by the indians. india has itself given rise to the suspicion of indian involvement in baluchistan by allowing this issue to creep in, in the joint statement. a decision of including this issue will be regretted by india in times to come because each time we will talk of terror in india, pakistan will talk the same in baluchistan.
     
  6. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    I don't think you guys are giving enough credit to the government. History clearly shows that agreements, statements and words in general have very little value when it comes to Indo-Pak relations. In the end the primary objectives aren't really bilateral peace or mutual growth, but rather feeding or quelling internal populist fervor for the representatives for each side.

    What's worse is that this conflict is no longer equitable. India has just moved on to bigger better things while Pakistan is marred in the same old vicious cycles that only seem to get worse. MMS has merely given Gillani what he needs, an overt position of "understanding" so that he can quell the downright idiotic rhetoric that is crippling Pakistan and get on with business that will hopefully garner some benefits for India as well. Pakistan isn't nearly functional enough to effect change through a political chain of command anyways. This whole thing is nothing more than a salvage operation.

    It should also be noted that India has little or no direct leverage over what happens in Pakistan despite all the jingoism from the BJP. The only realistic option for India is to shore up its defenses and keep making headway on the economic and conventional military front; and in order to do this if MMS has to throw Gillani a bone in public then so be it.

    Lastly, that whole nonsense about Indian involvement in Punjab and Baluchistan only makes the Pakistani establishment look dumber. India has been wise in not even bothering to entertain these machinations. I hardly see any serious discussion on this matter outside the infotainment journalistic outlets in India and Pakistan.
     
  7. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Oh Boy!! What did MMS do?. Is he out of his mind, when he decided to negotiate from a position of weakness instead from position of strength which we had by exposing the Pakistani hand in Mumbai attacks. It is clear that MMS is acting like a slave of US and climbing down, on prodding from US, to negotiate with pakistan on completely unfavorable terms without having anything to show of the progress in punishing the Pakistani based culprits/masterminds of 26/11 massacre. It is also clear that Pakistan is not serious in pursuing the Hafeez Saeed's case in punishing him for the attack and instead trying to find ways (often techinical) to let him off the hook which clearly shows that Pakistani is hand-in-gloves with JuD/Let outfit.

    This is a slap on the face of all those who have experienced the trauma and lost lives during the Mumbai massacre by these terrorist pigs. The efforts of martyrs like Godbole, Sandeep Unnikrishnan in taking down these pigs have gone waste. Their souls might be ruing their unfortunate fate for no cause. Its a very sad day in the history of India. I'm very very angry with what MMS government has done here :((
     
  8. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Relax guys. Indias position remains the same. The PM has clarified as much. In Indo Pak relations words have no meaning. You talk one day in Lahore and fight a war in Kargil the next.
    People give too much of importance to these irrelevant statements. Indo Pak reality won't change.
     
  9. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    this government has done nothing but compromise on every security issue,why even have talks if the main topic is not even going to be discussed? MMS is starting to show his true colors as a sellout ;and a pawn for the Italian who is really in power, I knew when kashmir troop reduction talk started it would only get worst.
     
  10. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Oh come on. What has the "Italian" got to do with this. There is a lot of pressure from the US.
     
  11. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Yusuf I understand the US pressure but there has to be a point that India draws the line we have compromised on everything to make USA happy, what is USA going to do when Pakistan and China unite against India? Has USA given any assurances to that? If yes then i say we should bend if not then we need to tell USA that we don't wish to make anymore compromises or sacrifices in our national security, look at the mess USA has made in Pakistan do you think they care one bit??
     
  12. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    I do know that the position taken by MMS is not for peace or mutual growth. But I don't understand why we have to delink 26/11 investigation progress with the composite-talks. Punishment of the perpetrators of 26/11 attack should be the precursor for any further negotiations (whatever it may be) not the other way round. We don't accrue any benefits either diplomatically or on ground by taking such position, instead it projects the image of India being a coward/weak when it comes to handling Pakistan or any other security situation not only in the eyes of Pakistan but also whole world. Its time we need to show some spine and stand up to Pakistan instead of stooping down to their level to negotiate and that too on Kashmir, what a pity!!.

    The statements coming out of this Cairo meeting only feeds/quells populist fervor in Pakistan but it will have opposite effect in India or do people think that Indian's don't care about this about-turn took by MMS govt., which doesn't have anything to show for 26/11 attack.
     
  13. kautilya

    kautilya Regular Member

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    MMS has sold out. We stick Balochistan in and terrorism out. We're back to being equal victims of terror. Never mind that Pakistani citizens and establishment planned and executed a terror attack causing 500 casualties just a few months ago.

    What do we tell those who've lost their loved ones fighting these scum? What do we tell the victims?

    Let's all collectively walk over the proverbial ledge because obviously our government couldn't give two hoots for the security of the people it claims to represent. For shame!
     
  14. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    This government has just let down the people of India big time. :(( It is a shame bowing to US pressure like this. It also goes to show that diplomacy doesn't pay off. It seemed clear to ME at least that there were no intentions of taking this seriously enough right from the beginning.

    Had this attack taken place on the Parliament and a couple of politicians died, it would have been totally different. Even now, policemen are dying everyday in the hands of Maoists but ministers with their personal security cover are least concerned. :((

    At this rate, India may even sign the NPT and CTBT soon under US pressure. :(
     
  15. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    I don't know HOW IN THE WORLD they can delink terror from the composite bilateral talks? HOW CAN THERE BE PEACE WHEN PAKISTANIS ARE KILLING INNOCENT INDIAN CIVILIANS AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT?
     
  16. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    Terrorism in Pakistan exists at multiple levels ranging from the various classes of society right up into the military. Obviously they cannot admit this which then essentially precludes any of these discussions from the official fora or channels. Point being, any movement on this topic can only take place in track 2 diplomacy. The public forum is merely there to generate sound bites (that are often conflicting). And while this whole thing is downright comical in nature, it is primarily Pakistan's own doing. The same is true for all its relationships, the US for instance makes overtures of support and friendship publicly but persists with spec ops and predator bombings. For whatever reasons, this is the only way it works for Pakistan.

    In regards to India's "cowardice"... like it or not India really has no realistic offensive options that garner anything more than a nominal victory while losing everything else. Nor does India have the ability to directly dictate what Pakistan does internally vis a vis terrorism. In many ways India will always remain on the defensive as long as Pakistan has nothing of its own to protect in terms of a bright future. This is just the harsh reality. That however doesn't mean that India has no options. Making a show of decreasing tensions automatically makes India more open to FDI, and for now that should be priority number one. The caveat is that the defensive measures to protect those investments have to markedly improve as well.

    Populism in Pakistan is far more crippling and fatal than it is in India. This is probably because of the recent progress and a widening world view which brings about other more pressing objectives. The GoI is banking on the probability that the Indian people desire prosperity more than they do settling nominal scores with an already defeated foe. The world already sees Pakistan as the center of terrorism and radicalism while India is percieved as the next big hope. Capturing Kasab and showing the direct link has only solidified the case, the point has already been made and the battle won. India has nothing to gain by beating a dead horse; it does however have a lot to lose by not living up to the globalized economic potential. India has to at whatever cost keep fueling its economy and expanding its human capital. Building up a better defensive capability and steadily increase the conventional military capability are the next two objectives.

    If MMS has to generate a 'soundbite of hope' at the summit of a defunct organization to enable Gilani to survive and in the bargain garner more foreign investment then so be it.

    But mind you MMS is no idiot either, and if you look closely, nothing has really changed. Pakistan can "talk" peace all it wants, but nothing will happen unless they are able to produce results. In the mean time India will keep expanding its defensive mechanism and hopefully be more smart with its military expenditures in addition to the economic growth of course.
     
  17. 1.44

    1.44 Member of The Month SEPTEMBER 2009 Senior Member

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    Sell out PM.For some reason the Pakistanis are really eager to resume talks,keeping our firm stand is the only thing that can assure that Pakistan takes action against the perpetrators of 26/11.I can't imagine them doing anything credible now.MMS has just given Pak a clean chit.
     
  18. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    Point is other than stopping terror, what is the point of discussion with Pakisan.

    If they don't take action against terrorists, fine, screw them, and take more measures to step up security at our end, what else is there to talk about?
     
  19. 1.44

    1.44 Member of The Month SEPTEMBER 2009 Senior Member

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    India can't look like just sitting there and taking whatever Pak-istan dishes out.
     
  20. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    ^^ We earnestly need results not politics. :( But alas, in India votes matter more than lives.
     
  21. 1.44

    1.44 Member of The Month SEPTEMBER 2009 Senior Member

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    ^^ I can't imagine sell-out actions such as this will get them any votes.BJP is seriously starting to look good to me(atleast on their claims of handling terror).
     

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