Tejas will not be ready for war before end-2015

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Shaitan, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. Shaitan

    Shaitan Zandu balm all day Senior Member

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    NEW DELHI: Defence minister A K Antony last week expressed the hope that the indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft would finally get the final operational clearance (FOC) next year. But a hard-nosed ``internal assessment'' shows Antony's dream will be shattered.

    The single-engine Tejas, already 30 years in the making, will not become fully combat-worthy anytime before end-2015. "The reality is that the around dozen Tejas prototypes are barely flying a couple of sorties a day. The initial operational clearance ( IOC)-II has again already been pushed to November this year from the earlier June-July deadline. It will take at least 18 months from IOC-II to FOC,'' said a source.

    In fact, the foremost challenge before the new DRDO chief-cum-scientific advisor to the defence minister, missile scientist Avinash Chander, is to ensure the long-running, meandering Tejas project firmly heads towards completion because it's absolutely critical for India to have its own home-grown fighter.

    The Tejas LCA project was first sanctioned in 1983 at a cost of Rs 560 crore to replace the ageing MiG-21s. The overall programme will now cost upwards of Rs 25,000 crore if the naval variant, trainer and the failed Kaveri engine are also taken into account.

    It was in January 2011 that Tejas got IOC-I, which was initially heralded as the ``full and final IOC'' by the combine of DRDO, Aeronautical Development Agency and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd till better sense prevailed. The fighter can be certified as fully airworthy only after it passes the IOC-II stage.

    But there are still ``several basic problems'' — leave alone complex issues — that continue to dog the fighter despite it having clocked over 2,000 flights. ``Tejas still cannot taxi back after a sortie since its brakes have to be first cooled with compressed air. It has major fuel gauge inaccuracies. Moreover, its radome (radar cover) is defective with large electromagnetic signal losses,'' said another source.

    The light-weight Tejas will be ready to go to war only after the FOC, which will include integration of all weapons and other systems to ensure it can fire guns, rockets, laser-guided bombs and BVR (beyond visual range) missiles as well as undergo air-to-air refuelling.

    IAF has earmarked the Sulur airbase in Tamil Nadu, near the Bengaluru HAL facilities where the fighter is being built, to house the initial Tejas squadron inducted in the IOC-II configuration to resolve ``the expected teething problems''.

    The force has so far ordered 20 Tejas in IOC-II configuration, with the American GE-404 engines, and another 20 in FOC. As per current plans, IAF will order six Tejas Mark-II squadrons (16 to 18 jets each), with the more powerful GE F-414 engines, once the fighter is combat-ready.

    Tejas will not be ready for war before end-2015 - The Times of India
     
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  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Ok, I understand it is a combat aircraft, so obviously it will be used for war, and not for spraying pesticides on agricultural fields, but what's up with the title? I almost got the feeling there is going to be a war in 2015!
     
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  4. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    That particular reporter always sensationalize every tit bit of information he has and spins it into a massive negative news when it comes to Tejas, For the past 12 years tejas did taxi after every touch down and did so in aeroindias as well,

    and sukhio radomes are supposed to be made here , since it is being built from raw material stage ,So what prevents making of Tejas radome? After making the radar can't we make the radaome?

    More than 90 percent of the article like IOC-2, IAF orders for 20 tejas at IOC-2 config, sulur airbase ,are something he keeps as stock to tag along and fill every negative report he writes,

    , couple of lights everyday are nothing related to the present news he writes, for example if Tejas flies more if air brakes and radome problems solve themselves?

    let alone complex issues means he does not know anything about them, even whether they are present or not,
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  5. Defenceindia2010

    Defenceindia2010 Regular Member

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    30 years and still it keeps on getting delayed. :sad:
     
  6. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Tejas - Feature - The Light Combat Aircraft Story by Air Marshal MSD Wollen (Retd)

     
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  7. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    In the late eighties India's aircraft Industry was not as advanced as Sweden's; and yet India follows a more arduous design/development route for its LCA, compared to Sweden for its JAS-39 Gripen. The Gripen embodied a far higher percentage of foreign, off-the-shelf technology, including its RM-12 engine (improved GE F404). France (Dassault Aviation) built and exhaustively flew a demonstrator aircraft (Rafale-A) before embarking on construction of Rafale prototypes. Over 2,000 flights were completed by September 1994 when first Flight of a production Rafale was still 20 months away. At that point of time, Dassault Aviation had built or flown 93 prototypes, of which at least fifteen went into production after sixteen years elapsed from 'first-metal-cut' of the Rafale demonstrator to entry into service. Current plans for the LCA is ten years. And what of India's past record? Just a hand-ful of trainer aircraft designed and productionised. The story is similar for the Typhoon (earlier Eurofighter 2000). It was seventeen years from 'first-metal-cut' (EAP) to squadron entry in 2000. One more timeframe needs to be noted. It took Gripen six and a half years from first flight (prototype) to entry into squadron. For the LCA, four and a half years is the target! The quantum of test flying hours required to attain Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) is about 2000 hours; an impossible task in four and a half years. Concurrent production will shorten service entry time, but this will not enable the present target to be reache
     
  8. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    What?
    What is the purpose of this piece of writing? I don't know if I shall call it a sensible article?
    What is the meaning of FOC in the first place? and its requirement? ( if the author knew )
    Will IAF use a platform which they have not properly inducted in the first place, even if a war breaks out one day after Tejas gets FOC will it be used in the war?
    Was Mig-21 used in 1965 war even if it was inducted by then?

    Some body came up with 100 deficiency article a few days back, that article was based on reports from sources.
    This time around there is a list of 4-5 deficiencies, where are the rest 95, no mention of them? has their sources forgot to mention them and list them this time around?

    Yes, we all want Tejas up and flying with IAF in it's squadrons as soon as possible but there are delays and we have to accept it.

    The only get-able point from this article is that, as the deadline for IOC-2 has slipped from july to nov. 2013 so, consequently the FOC will be delayed and it cannot be end-2014 as stated by RM Antony recently.

    And, for newspapers, I would say, pay good money to get good sources within HAL and DRDO.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
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  9. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    So, okay, the Tejas will not be combat worthy before 2015, according to the understanding of this article....So what?

    By the same logic, the even the Eurofighter is not combat worthy, without an AESA radar, a dedicated targetting pod, and a less than spectacular EW suite. In all fairness, the Eurofighter will not be combat capable ( according to its original specifications) before 2015-16, when the AESA radar becomes operational. Even then, several other major capabilities will still be missing.

    But that did not stop the Euro countries from putting it into service, even deploying it to Libya with Juggad.

    Then the next contestent to the list of unworthy fighters is the JF-17. For all the fanboys across the border, the JF-17 block 1 is an IOC capable AC only, without even an IFR probe, let alone an integrated ECM suite. It is practically incapable of any A2A missions and is only a A2G capable AC. So it should never have been inducted, right? They are little more than trainers.

    Even in our case when the SU-30Ks first entered service, it lacked several key features. Now that did not stop IAF to induct it....why not apply the same yardstick to the Tejas? Its not like its falling out of the sky everytime it takes to the air....

    Stupid journalism
     
  10. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    :rofl:



    touch done frame 6.37 and then self taxi

    may be same source must have told him that Rajat Pandit, has lost his mind and in all fairness he has believed it but didnt put it in printing :rofl:
     
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  11. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Tejas will not be ready for war before end-2015



    :frusty::frusty::taunt1::taunt1::taunt1:
     
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  12. vram

    vram Regular Member

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    I no nothing about the alleged radar issues niether the fuel gauge issue since have not read about this problem anywhere else till date...so can't make a informed comment here.
    But I an definitely calling that Taxiing part full of bull shit. Any person who is not blind and has access to youtube will know that the LCA is self propelled with braking a mechanism which is in-line with all major airframes operated by IAF today. Below is a snippet and link regarding the braking for the SU-30 family and thier braking technology.Its no different than what used with the LCA. Rajat Pandit comes up with absolute crap these days...

    Su-30M Flanker-H Air-Superiority Fighter - Airforce Technology


    Below is the LCA's landing gear information

    http://www.machtres.com/lang1/lca.html

     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
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  13. TrueSpirit

    TrueSpirit Senior Member Senior Member

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    I believe they are trying to convey the message that FOC would not be achieved before 2015, in a jargon-free language.
     
  14. TrueSpirit

    TrueSpirit Senior Member Senior Member

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    Even that news (shifting of IOC-2 deadline) is stale now.
     
  15. Waffen SS

    Waffen SS New Member

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    Then what?
    It took from 1969 to 2001 for designing and first flight of Tejas took place in 2001.We should not hurry!

    I cant understand why every process in India is slow?:frusty:
     
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  16. TrueSpirit

    TrueSpirit Senior Member Senior Member

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    AFAIK, US Marine Corps are going to induct the F-35B after IOC, itself.

    It's reported to be somewhere around mid-2015 time-frame & at that time, the mission computer software would have only basic A2A & A2G capabilities. Even, Eurofighter saw induction at somewhat similar stages.

    Many countries do that, but maybe in view of our threat perception & operational readiness level, we cannot take the risk of inducting an IOC aircraft in full squadron service until it has demonstrated complete battle-worthiness. One should remember that LCA's A-o-A limitations would not be sorted out before IOC-2 & full weapon integration (FOC) would be at least 2.5 - 3 years later.

    So, the date of entering full squadron service, after having demonstrated battle-worthiness would be late 2016, at the earliest & not 2015, as reported.
     
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  17. Patriot

    Patriot Senior Member Senior Member

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    These pimpish journalists can write damn anything, you just need to pay them. These guys just print it whatever crap their sponser provides them to suit their purpose.

    We are seeing changes in DRDO leadership etc and also read the ststement form Mr. Antony. Seems some propaganda is cooking up through these articles. . Such juornos are used to create negative vibe & influence for the upcoming decisions.
     
  18. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    We too are doing the same , inducting the tejas mk-1 after the IOC, already serial production versions are under construction. it is to cast a cloud of suspicion on them that these kind of reports sprout.
     
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  19. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Money for the first two Td was allotted only in 1993. if you have a design configuration all finalized in files , the fighter just won't spring out of the file after certain period of time is over from the files are finalized. You need to put the money down where the mouth is and build tech demos , Pvs , LPs and test fly them
     
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  20. TrueSpirit

    TrueSpirit Senior Member Senior Member

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    IOC-1 is already done in 2011. And only 2 aircrafts (2-seater variant, probably) have been inducted in IAF, which are yet to see the full operational service in the LCA squadron being raised in Sulur airbase, right ?

    So, the 40 LCA's ordered by IAF would be IOC-1 level or IOC-2 level ?
     
  21. Payeng

    Payeng Daku Mongol Singh

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    Now a days the LCA issue seems the right funda to fuel up frustrated people :heh: and jurnos knows where it hit it right :hehe:
     

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