Tejas Mk2 Build Begins

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by SpArK, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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    Tejas Mk.2 Build Begins



    [​IMG]


    Finally, HAL has begun the process to build the first Tejas Mk.2 prototype, envisioned as a slightly larger but much more capable fighter than the floundering Tejas Mk.1.

    On November 19, HAL's Aircraft Research & Design Centre (ARDC) floated the first of many requirements for raw materials -- alloys and such -- for the first Tejas Mk.2 (first pictures) prototype vehicle and other assemblies. More requirements will be put out over the next few weeks.

    HAL is looking to put the Mk.2, powered by the General Electric F414-GE-INS6 turbofan engine, into the air in 2014. The highly anticipated Mk.2 programme will cost at least $542.44-million (Rs 2431.55-crore), comprising full scale engineering development. The IAF has put down an official requirement for 83 of the Mk.2s. Working on a detailed post on the Mk.2. No timeframe, though!


    Livefist: Tejas Mk.2 Build Begins
     
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  3. venkat

    venkat Regular Member

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    No time frame? Then LCA MK2 will also take tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long a time!!!
     
  4. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Good development..

    Hope they do this faster as all the exp and the material they already have..
     
  5. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I think Shiv is referring to his "detailed" post, not Mk2s development time frame. :p

    Anyway, Mk2s timeframe is obvious. First flight in 2014, god knows when IOC will happen, but they are saying 2016. IOC in 2016 means FOC in 2018. FOC in 2018 means first fully operational squadron in 2020. So, total development timeframe for Mk2 is around 10-11 years. Starting in 2009-10 and ending in 2018-20.
     
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  6. opesys

    opesys Regular Member

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    Mods, If you think it's a good idea then make this as a sticky thread for MK2 and make it as specs and progress only thread. It will be a good idea to have a separate thread for debating. I do like the debates that is happening in LCA I,II,III...threads but it is very difficult to get some particular info from these threads.
     
  7. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    im a bit more optimistic - believe it will take much shorter - altough committing to a time frame will indicate their confidence level

    at 541 million USD - this must be shoestrinf budget ----will it be in budget or will it exceed - if within then it wouldbe an ACHIEVEMENT

    i second te proposeal to make this a sticky thread
     
  8. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    There would be no major engineering developmental or aerodynamical challenges to be expected from mk-2.
    because it will have a lengthened fuselage for more fuel and wings will be lengthened for a meter so that the plane has same wingloading as mk1 and a new engine GE-414 INS6 that will be fitted on it.
     
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  9. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Livefist: Embarrassed DRDO Lambasts TV Report
    if people want to see the quality of reporting on defence matters ,they can see the above link in the website which said tejas mk-1 is floundering.
    First a news report about" DRDO's response to a CNN-IBN's allegedly biased report on the DRDO product" is posted .

    And the anchor of the blog then goes on to say that the" DRDO response is full of unnecessary platitudes, typically diversionary irrelevancies, insinuations that the TV station is working for arms dealers and an expected sentimentality on indigenous development".

    And the author wonders why the DRDO has such a problem dealing with the report head-on. Over 14 points, it just barely touches upon the substance of the audit report, and that too to say they are not final, and can still be struck down. Here it is in full, verbatim

    this is the quality of defence journalism in india.The reporter will hit the laptop or hold the mike in front of the camera and will go on to say whatever his opinion is about the tejas or arjun. Even the fair principle of getting the interview with the concerned design team regarding the delays and shortfalls of the product or why it is getting delayed is beyond the knowledge of this DDM(Deshi Dork Media) people.

    And being fed on this type of journalism you can see most of the comments about of the alleged viewers are always at retard genius level.

    Comment after comment will be like ,
    The DRDO is wasting tax payer money, it must be shut down, people in PSUs are not worth the shit.
    you can see the same unerring type of retard genius level comments after every report that features a DRDO product as if they were shot off by retard bots.
    it is disgusting to see these sites again and again.

    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2012/11/army-proposes-to-scrap-future-main.html
    Now the army has decided that future FMBT is to be based on arjun.
    and IAF has given orders for 6 squadrons of tejas and navy will chip in with three or more squadrons for tejas as it is evident from spending 400 cr from their own budget for naval tejas mk-2,will these guys eat crow?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
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  10. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Another view of the LCA program by Former SA to PM Ashok Parthasarathi and Vice Adm. (retd) Raman Puri in the following site
    Sniperz Blog: The real LCA story

    Now with mk-2 version weapon load and internal fuel are going to increase further.And it will be close to grippenNG as per ACM NAIK's own words.
     
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  11. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Obvious. The redesign for this was very important and a very, very necessary change. LCA was designed with the R-60 in mind. IAF asked for the R-73 to be equipped on it. Not a radical change of requirements, is there? If the Mig-21 could be modified during production, so can LCA during development. It is a very basic requirement and was a requirement even before LCA took to the skies.

    F-35 has seen far tougher requirement changes where Netherlands has asked for increasing the size of the internal bays in order to handle 6 BVR missiles.

    If ADA cannot make such a simple change to keep the aircraft relevant, then they don't deserve to be called an aerospace R&D company.

    The article was written by the author who did not know that LCA Mk1 will be fully inducted after the first Rafale squadron is planned for induction. Funny that!

    Btw, the ACM was misquoted. Google his interview videos, or you will find some in older pages of the LCA thread. He was talking about Gripen C, not NG. That is our Desi Dork Media misquoting things as usual. Don't take everything at face value, it becomes hilarious. NG does not even exist as of today, it is a paper tiger. But, it is simply far ahead compared to Mk2. On paper NG has 10 hardpoints, carries 7 tons of weapons and comes with sensor fusion that is supposed to be mind blowing, with currently what is the most advanced datalink capability the world has seen. It even packs a video link to soldiers on the ground. So, both sides can see what's happening when targets are taken out. This already exists, apart from what I said earlier, about Gripen being connected to the defence nodes even when it is on the Tarmac.
     
  12. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
    The total weight of the pylon load capability come to around 5.7 tons just like a medium multi role fighter not some point defence mig-21 replacement..

    is this what the mig-21 replacement?is this what th original ASr specs?. The wings have been strengthened further to carry this huge load for a small fighter according to scientific advisor to the Pm parthasarathi not just simple missiles.


    just calculate the total weight of pylons on LCA.You must know that the wing design was radically altered from mig-21 specs.

    The ACM NAIK statement i posted came from zeenews. I even posted a link for it.Any way mk-2 and grippen NG are in the same league as MMRCA type. ANy sensor fusion software stuff is not indicative of any airframe superiority.

    You just cannot differenciate between aerodynamic efficiency of the wing form is the defining quality of the fighter not sensor fusion.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  13. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    LCA has nothing to do with Mig-21's design. So, stop farting nonsense again and again.

    LCA was forever a 5.5 ton aircraft with a payload of 4 tons. It perfectly fits. None of that horseshit about it being a 2 ton payload aircraft. Find any source which says LCA was actually a 2 ton payload aircraft, any credible source and I will change my username to anything you want it to be. In exchange, if you can't find a credible source, how about taking off from the forum.

    The specs are still the same as before. A few things have changed but IAF is accepting a reduced spec aircraft for MK1 and instead are going for an entirely new aircraft with the Mk2. Mk2 has more design changes which we will either see early next year or the next when it flies.
     
  14. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    I remember Rahul Singh has anticipated Mk2 design changes somewhere in the LCAIII thread, it will interesting to see how much they resemble!
     
  15. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    And even the top speed of 1.8 mach for the mk-1 will be a history once gtre-snecma produces a lower weight and higher thrust engine that will replace the lower powered engine in the first engine change.Along with asea radar upgrade and higher powered engine mk-1 will be no pushover either for more than 50 percent of the present PAF and PLAF fleet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  16. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Look you have comprehension issues. If you agree to that then a lot of problems will be solved immediately. Where did I relate Mig-21s design parameters to LCA? I never did. You are the one who is trying to relate it. What I said was entirely different.

    Didn't I tell you to find me a source saying the LCA's original spec asked for a 2 ton payload, like the Mig-21? So, stop posting and go find that first.

    You have read AM Wollen's article. You have seen ADA's website. LCA won't cross Mach 1.6. It's inlet design won't allow greater speed. And LCA's payload carrying capacity isn't 5.7 tons, if its true then shoot a mail to ADA saying they are wrong and to remove 3.5 tons from their official listing and change it to 5.7 tons.

    If LCA could carry 5.7 tons then MKI would be doing something like 10-11 tons if you only consider structural rigidity of the wings. It doesn't work that way. But then what do I know. You are the expert on LCA, more so that even ADA.
     
  17. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    It is you who is struck at a level of intelligence of incomprehensible dogmatic level that can hardly be reformed.
    I will wait till Foc ,because you will keep on saying all sort of things then.once achieved specs are declared at foc then lets see who has comprehension issues.
     
  18. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
    If you look at the total pylon loadout of 5.7 tons external stores , the capabilities of mk-2 were already built into mk-1. The reason is mk-1 can exploit these redundant extra 2 ton weapon load with a higher thrust engine in first engine change as it happened with the F-16 program.

    Each aircraft undergoes three engine changes in their lifetime. The K-10 snecma GTRE will have the same external dimension of mk-1 engine and higher thrust. So tejas will have higher weapon load and thrust to weight ratio with these upgrades.

    So mk-2 wont have significant weight addition to cater to it's increased weapon load of 5 tons as already 5.7 ton weapon load bearing capacity is built into mk-1.
    What will make it even more formidable is if ada develops stealth conformal external weapon bays and fuel tanks at it will make tejas truly more than a match for any 4.5th gen out there.

    That's why the test pilot Suneet krishna has said that tejas is ours and it is modular and upgradable as we need it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
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  19. Ganesh2691

    Ganesh2691 Regular Member

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    HAL begins moving on LCA Mk-II build

    In what is expected to be a monumental exercise to meet the IAF’s requirements for a high performance fighter jet that surpasses the hurdles met by the LCA Tejas, HAL has begun work to build a mock-up of the LCA Mk.2 aircraft. Last week, HAL floated requirements for metal and alloy equipment that will begin feeding into the build process that will result in a first full-scale model of the Tejas Mk.2, which will be longer and higher than the original Tejas.



    To be powered by the General Electgric F414-GE-INS6 jet engine, the Mk.2 is likely to require major airframe modifications at the aft and intakes, apart from minor modifications elsewhere—there is no saying how long this will take just yet. HAL and ADA are confident that they will be able to overcome the major delays and slippages experiences on the first Tejas programme. The IAF intends for now to order 83 Mk.2 fighters. While European firm EADS is providing technical and testing consultancies on the IAF and Navy versions of the Tejas Mk.1, the Mk.2 project is seeing ADA and HAL go it alone for now, though discussions may come up shortly for a possible consultancy, sources say. The Tejas Mk.1 is expected to achieve initial operational clearance 2 (IOC-2) sometime next year, followed by final operational clearance in 2014.

    HAL begins moving on LCA Mk-II build | idrw.org
     
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  20. Jagdish58

    Jagdish58 Regular Member

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  21. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Even this picture is posted by rahul Singh a member of DFI in ADA tejas -III thread in our forum years before.

    Other than sensor fusion most of the stuff presently on Gripen is sourced from other firms by SAAB.

    Atleast in tejas we can claim more local contents when it comes to avionics, mision computer and close to 80 percent of the LRUs by the time tejas goes into production.

    After the crash of the first gripen prototype due to fly by wire problems SAAB outsourced the work of Gripen fly by wire to a US firm. In tejas despite sanctions fly by wire was successfully developed in house.

    And DRDO has experience in the field of ASEA for AWACS, and israeli co operation will give tejas mk2 a decent indigenous radar.

    Also as per the only original article on tejas mk-1s initial spec written by Air marshal MSD Woolen and posted on ADA tejas government website the initial topspeed of tejas mk-1 asked for by IAF was just mach 1.5 . SO the air intake was originally designed with that goal in mind. Also original max take of weight for tejas mk-1 was just 12.5 tons.

    Even with the intake designed for mach 1.5 tejas mk-1 reached mach 1.6.If the intake design was wrong how can tejas mk-1 now take off with 13.2 ton max take off weight?

    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2008/07/concluding-part-of-two-part-series-on.html

    Above blog is a good read when it comes to the so called air intake troubles of tejas.

    It is common knowledge that fighters have to use their jet engines with after burner at peak power to take off at max take of weight. So if the air intake is wrong how can tejas mk1 take off with higher than planned initial max take off weight?

    many people ignore this crucial fact when making a sweeping comment like "air intake on tejas was wrong."

    But now with the help of jaguar like Aux intake there will be no question of engines being starved off air.

    ALso OBORG is already designed and tested by ADA. And in flight refueling probe work has been contracted to a very experienced british firm for tejas mk-2 .

    Also even though the wings are large , the most crucisl factor is wing loading (weight per square meter area of the wing ) which determines the wing aerodynamics will be same for both tejas and gripen.

    Already NAL has supplied tech to HAL to make composite wings . SO what is SAAB going to bring in?

    And no major structural change other than lengthening the fuselage is needed.

    This shows the sheer lack of authenticity of the article. Most of the articles there should never be taken seriously.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
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