Tejas grounds Medium Combat Aircraft project

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by gokussj9, Apr 21, 2013.

  1. gokussj9

    gokussj9 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Tejas grounds Medium Combat Aircraft project - The New Indian Express


    @p2prada @Kunal Biswas , @ersakthivel @Austin

    Are the statements in bold credible or is it just paid media at work?
     
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  3. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    It is the case for all aircraft.

    LCA is far, far, far away from any kind of operational flights. So this is the procedure followed during tests, where the aircraft is monitored from the ground.

    In a ways this is good news. AMCA is merely a 5th gen aircraft set to be commissioned in 2030. Instead, they can have it commissioned as a 6th gen fighter or even a 5th/6th gen hybrid by 2035 instead. This will help us keep up with the Americans when their 6th gen hybrid shows up in 2030.

    As for IOC being delayed by another year, let's see.
     
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  4. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    This whole article is spicy a repetition of things of past nothing new..

    1. Tejas project actually started a decade ago, Before that everything was conceptual..

    2. 5,489 crores are nuts, China invested 30 billion just for engine research, this shows how we care about our own National defense..

    3. IOC -1 is archived and Tejas are inducted already, the Project heading for IOC-2 in next 3-6 months and then FOC..

    4. BS, LCA have a very sophisticated radar, Which is lot modern and power efficient, rest i dont have to mention as the author and so call expert only provided there imaginary numbers, Paid Media..

    5. Oh, So to make the article look Intelligent he as to add this : “The plane cannot fly on its own. It needs a lifeline in the form of support and monitoring of its systems from the ground by technicians,”, << Even Civilian Airlines follow so..

    6. Because these are Prototypes and are meant to test certain aerodynamic or hardware functions, Prototypes are not combat fighters..

    ===========================
    ===========================

    You read the LCA threads, You find these sort of Articles intentions, Either they are simply earning by trolling or Paid to do so for Foreign companies..


     
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  5. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    Paid article and nothing else. All the aircrafts need such ground support and monitoring, their intention is clear from the sentence 'the plane can not fly on its own...'
     
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  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    India should look at UCAVs/ stealth UCAV. 5th gen in all likelihood is going to be the last manned gen of fighters. India shoukd get going on it. Aura has been talked about for a long time. Time we get it in service and in numbers.

    FGFA will be indias 5th gen fighter and may be the only one if nothing happens on the F35 front.
     
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  7. vram

    vram Regular Member

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    My reply to this astounding article is here.

    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/43717-ada-lca-tejas-iv-61.html#post718915

    Every SINGLE SENTENCE in that article is factually incorrect. When I get the time I am planning to write a line by line rebuttal for that article to the newspaper. Com'on guys are we recruiting journalists from LKG now. Have they never heard of researching a topic or even trying a wikipedia search in the internet....nonsense utter nonsense...
    Even the Article Heading has no relation to the Tejas but he manages to vomit on the LCA while supposedly writing about the AMCA...WTF
    @Kunal Biswas has explained it well. I appreciate the fact that he even took the time to point out the very very obvious crap in that article .
    OH yeah and that MAGICAL NUMBER of 100 deficiencies that for the first time cropped up in another school assignment Pulitzer prize article from CNN-IBN has now been accepted as the gospel of truth.Way to go.....This article is now officially another entry for the Pultizer prize..LOL I jimbllyy cant take this anymore overdose of bullshit for one day :toilet:
    I MADE THE STATEMENT in LCA thread that people are going try derailing this project in the media now....many dint accept....watch the fun now.....its going to be shitfest from here on as the Tejas starts proving its mettle...
     
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  8. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Negative. All aircraft are supposed to be stand alone systems.

    No functional aircraft needs ground support and monitoring. After IOC most of the ground monitoring systems for LCA will disappear.

    Heck PAKFA/Su-35 and Super MKI will be equipped with satellite comm/nav system which will enable it to operate beyond LOS of the ground based comm systems let alone ground based monitoring systems.
     
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  9. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The whole article is related to Tejas.

    Except for Point #6, all his other points are wrong. I have merely stopped replying to his posts. But when it's wrong, it is simply wrong.
     
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  10. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    China invested around 100 million dollars on J-10. First flight in 98 and FOC around 2004/2005. Engine is another ballpark entirely.
     
  11. vram

    vram Regular Member

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    IOC-1 was achieved - Fact.
    IOC-2 - Will be given after testing of LSP-8 which has already flown and PV-1 ready - FACT again. THE SU-30 the MIG 29 and the Mirage where all given clearance for importing without demonstrating BVR capability in the IAF. BUT strangely enough this is one of the Parameters for IOC itself in LCA tejas. But that is a arguement for another day.

    The cost- Again fact but nobody considers the inflation when talking about escalations. 1 billion in todays cost is damn cheap for a fighter program. No country came come near this cost for a new fighter jet design from the basic drawing board phase.Not to mention the contribution for growth to India aero Industry.We already had the discussion on 1983 figure I and stick to my points.

    The radar is the Elta-2032M hybrid MMR with the processor being the main isreali contribution. THis information is out there from 2010. Dont know what the journo means by no reliable radar. The Tejas is expected to Fire BVR's this year. Impossible without a radar.The fighter radar is expected to be locked on the target and provide a beacon for the BVR launch.

    This is a complete LIE. Every one who was flowing the program knows that the grounding was due to the canopy Hieght issue. The writer has confused the NAVAL LCA 's landing gear issue with this program to try and include more ammo for his smear campaign. The extent of stupidity is breathtaking

    Oh for heavens sake..:rolleyes: what does he mean fly on its own. I dint know we where building some knid of Robocop combined with Terminator. Every prototype aircraft will have ground technical support until its inducted in a operational squadron role. Until then there will be no operation procedures,manuvers,engagement call etc..set up by the IAF with ATC ground controllers of the IAF, other squadron etc.. For all intents and purposes I BELIEVE WHAT I SAW and the Tejas performed a multirole to the T while the SU-30 MKI failed in its mission profile during IRONFIST.

    Well Everything else is in the open domain of the internet. We have pages of write up regarding this.
    I also do not see any 'EVIDENCE' that the plane is flown by ground control and the pilot is just pulling some stick like some god damn truck. We are talking about a airplane here of which 12 different variation have already been manufactured.
    then what has it been doing up in the air for more than 2000 hours - plain foolish statement that.
    If the system is being monitored from the ground more kudos to them .They are doing thier job. But doesn't really say anything here .
    No country has enough technology to fly a advanced fighter like the Tejas from the ground. The arguement is just so much manure...

    I can also write a article that says that the SU-30 MKI is till date being flown by ground tech input. It will matter nothing as long the evidence is provided.
    Note: I will welcome any well nuanced critic backed by fact providing input on programs improvement. Mud slinging I abhor..

    What really frustrates me is that the aircraft is not yet in service and already people seem to have so called full know how of its operational profile and so called faults.As mentioned earlier I STILL DO NOT see even a single authentic source put weight behind magical figure of 100 technical faults. THe figure first cropped up from what I am aware in the CNN-IBN article quoting an unnamed Expert who in turn was talking about a unnamed Official. Now this will be benchmark for all future tejas articles. We will suddenly start seeing like this article that 100 technical fault data bandied about. Anyone knows where it orginated by then??? no right.... Nice game of shadow and mirrors.
    An engine defeciency in LEH every one knows about. Nobody is trying to hide faults of the Tejas as well. Least of all the airforce. The media is just gleefully ready to accept even a hint of a scandal.
    CERTAIN PEOPLE seem to be ready to cast slur on the program easily enough without any evidence but want those defending it reasonably to provide facts to support thier arguements. Nice Logic.
    But manufactured articles with no facts in them but reguirating old data to malign the project again seems to be just plain pathetic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
  12. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    The reason I will not stop replying to your posts, however, is because, I see you posting wrong and misleading information, and confusing people most of the times.
     
  13. vram

    vram Regular Member

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    Extremely enlightening snipet on the J-10 fighter from the below book my friend.

    Deception - Charles Robinson Smith - Google Books

    I doesn't cost much to copy does it???

    [​IMG]

    Designs of the shelved LAVI fighter program ,,, internal electronics copied from the f-16's 'loaned' by the Pakis...air to air missile a copy of the Israeli Python...LOL dude is there anything orginal in that thing...
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
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  14. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Fake IOC. It was simply a silly function. The REAL IOC is yet to be achieved.

    This is the REAL IOC. Yet to be given. So wait for it.

    Nonsense.

    :faceplam:

    BVR isn't part of IOC. BVR is part of FOC.

    Why is it that I always have to discuss with people who don't know shit?

    More nonsense. Gripen was developed with just $2.5 Billion including engines. Tejas will top $3Billion without engine costs included.


    Reliability is different from capability. He is right when he says we don't yet have a reliable radar. But we have to start somewhere. So, in a way the author is both right and wrong.

    Sometimes even more experienced authors get some facts wrong. Even experts go wrong somewhere.

    Also, no. Both Naval and AF versions have overweight landing carriages. This is a fact. EADS is fixing both for us. AF version's carriage is overweight by 500Kg, Naval version is overweight by 1500Kg, IIRC.

    So you say this and you also claim IOC-1 was achieved. Oxymoron, anyone.

    IOC removes the ground support. LCA is still flying with ground support. Hence LCA is yet to achieve IOC. Hence IOC-1 was a farce. Simple, isn't it?

    Oh, God, you have no idea what the author is talking about, don't you?

    Flown from the ground. :pound:
    Learn some facts and then we will discuss.

    Since you have no idea what the author is talking about, just shut up.

    You are the kind of people who bring the country down.

    The overconfident, arrogant, ignorant types.
     
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  15. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Just STFU and learn some facts before farting. I have had enough of reading your annoying posts, especially when you don't know even the basics of an aircraft.

    Wrong, misleading and confusing people most of the times, eh? Wow, you need to know real truth and real facts before you actually "ASSUME" I am misleading here.

    Satan, where do these people come from?
     
  16. gokussj9

    gokussj9 Senior Member Senior Member

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    @p2prada


    1. What does the author mean when he states that ground support is needed for Tejas flight?

    2. How good is the Tejas radar as compared to the ones in Mig 29 UPG, Kopyo in Bison and Zhuk in MKI?

    3. Could you elaborate more on landing carriage being overweight issue. I have not yet seen this issue discussed
    anywhere in detail.
     
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  17. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Ok, perhaps that was an overstatement. Sure, most of the things you write is not wrong, except that they are irrelevant. For example, the question HAL investing money in R&D, and where it goes. Just go back and read what you wrote there? All fart and no shit.

    Confuse, obfuscate, and complicate - that is your way of arguing.

    You would still be innocent if you did things out of ignorance, but apparently, you are more into deliberate twisting of facts, and deliberate comprehension disability.
     
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  18. gokussj9

    gokussj9 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Even if they have copied, the aircraft is up and flying with 220+ already inducted in the PLAAF. Go to pee-dee-eff and listen to Paki's saying that Tejas has been copied from Mirage-2K. Some inputs might have been taken, but a copy to copy in a Makkhee to Makkhee style, I am not so sure. If we can design a 4th gen aircraft, why can't the Chinese with a much bigger economy and research budget. A lot of students come to US from China funded by their govt and when they go back, they contribute to their R&D unlike the case of India where govt does not give a damn. Why so much disdain for the Chinese capabilities?

    AFAIK, US has its staff at the F-16 airbase in Pakistan so that Chinese cannot tamper with the technology.

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/249874/...-flew-in-with-guaranteed-us-presence-at-base/

    Some proof for the same would help.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
  19. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Not arguing on that. It is more about @p2prada calling others wrong when he himself spends most of his time writing unrelated and irrelevant BS in most of the discussions that he participates in.
     
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  20. vram

    vram Regular Member

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    OH great master I did not know that you are more qualified than the IAF and MOD put together in these matters. FACT IS IOC - 1 IS GIVEN COME OUT OF YOUR DELUSION AND FACE IT.
    Why is that I alway end counter argueing with arrogant know it all pricks.

    (Source of snippet WIKI)
    So the engine had significant US input and licence build of already developed one...SO what cost??. Who looks the fool now??
    And provide source for that 2.5 billion mark . Last I read its 3.5 billions plus additional unit cost..

    I WILL NOT ACCEPT THIS GUY AS A EXPERT. If you go wrong in so many counts you are not a expert. thats just bullshit. he specifically gave a timeline and said the grounding at that time was due to landing issues. But that was PURE LIE as I have proved. Stop trying to hide a misleading information by overloading unwanted statistics. Back to your old tricks I see..And first of all you missed here as well is the USN and EADS both are working as a consultant for fixing defects regarding the landing gear in Naval LCA. Nobody is doing the work for you. Never heard of IAF version having a fault in landing . Provide source.

    FOR god sake I just quoted what he has written not my words... telemetry data for components is used for every development program. the Flights are always adjusted depending on the telemetry feed back. Nothing new here.
    are you blind??

    YES I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE AUTHOR IS GOING ON ABOUT. its all bullshit to me. Most other people here seem to be of the same view. Since you seem to have a direct line to the authors thought enlighten us oh mighty one....
    OR are you too good to state facts. Whenever your arguement is nullified you completey disregard the whole point dont you....

    MY entire views where in no way overconfident. I have challenged each and every ascertion of his with a counter arguement. Why are you having indigestion??
    I AM the KIND of person who tries to preserve what is left of this country from the like of you who have not ever encouraged nor will ever any indigenous endeavour.the White man's burden still rules your thoughts.
    You call me Ignorant but I have never ever seen you presenting fact. Are we expected to take each and every arguements you make as pearly diamonds from god mouth never to be questioned...Provide one single source dude .....else stuff your crap elsewhere....
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
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  21. vram

    vram Regular Member

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    The same Question can be reversed as well. Why the disdain for INDIAN R& D. I admire the chinese quality of singlemindedly working towards thier goal of improving thier country and becoming number one in the world. Bloody hardworking and disciplined people.
    But do not asign them god like capabilities. saying the J-10 just cost 100 million $ is bullshit when most of the supportive work and building blocks for the aircraft components where already bought by them.Nothing wrong in that really.
    THe American copied from the German from WW 2 nothing wrong there....they accept it ....But dont have false pride unlike in this case.
    I appreciate Chinese capability but India is also attempting to achieve the same with many dedicated people involved here. Ridiculing that with such kind of bullshit articles is demeaning
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013

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