Tata Motors wants to build battle tanks

[pmaitra]

uhhh yeah but i am talking about telcon (now called tata hitachi).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Hitachi_Construction_Machinery
hence TELCON

Oh, ok, I am sorry, I misunderstood.

 

[blueblood]

tata motors thats pvt sectors drdo. one of oldest auto maker in india.so wat successful products they have other than indica taxi ??

Just to name one.......any given day I will prefer Tata 407 as one of the most successful product.

Spoiler

Tata 407 got launched two years after the Japanese LCVs came in India.
But 407 out performed all-most all of them in Himalayan terrain.
It was one of the best product of Tata Motors in LCV category.

Pretty ironic(?) that we are undermining Tata for the last 2-3 pages but not a single post on this thread.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...rder-for-1-200-trucks-from-indian-army.68875/

 

[Zebra]

self delete,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[blueblood]

Germany, France to jointly develop 'Leopard 3' tank
Germany and France are considering cooperation on developing a successor to the tank "Leopard 2." The current model has been in service since 1979, and aging Bundeswehr equipment is currently in stark focus.

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-france-to-jointly-develop-leopard-3-tank/a-18468270
..........................................................................................................
The planned merger between the maker of the acclaimed German Leopard 2 tank, Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW), and its French counterpart, Nexter Systems, is not the first of its kind in Europe but its expected to create a formidable armaments manufacturer in the heart of the Continent.

http://www.dw.com/en/german-french-tank-makers-could-merge-next-week/a-18575135
..................................................................................................

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashok...nce_Systems_-_Krauss-Maffei_Wegmann_.28KMW.29

Ashok Leyland, L&T, Nexter consortium for artillery programme

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...m-for-artillery-programme-114062000483_1.html
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@Rowdy , @pmaitra , @Zebra , @ezsasa and others........

Looks like Ashok Leyland may beat Tata to it, again.

 

[Zebra]

Germany, France to jointly develop 'Leopard 3' tank
Germany and France are considering cooperation on developing a successor to the tank "Leopard 2." The current model has been in service since 1979, and aging Bundeswehr equipment is currently in stark focus.

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-france-to-jointly-develop-leopard-3-tank/a-18468270
..........................................................................................................
The planned merger between the maker of the acclaimed German Leopard 2 tank, Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW), and its French counterpart, Nexter Systems, is not the first of its kind in Europe but its expected to create a formidable armaments manufacturer in the heart of the Continent.

http://www.dw.com/en/german-french-tank-makers-could-merge-next-week/a-18575135
..................................................................................................

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashok...nce_Systems_-_Krauss-Maffei_Wegmann_.28KMW.29

Ashok Leyland, L&T, Nexter consortium for artillery programme

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...m-for-artillery-programme-114062000483_1.html
...........................................................................................................

@Rowdy , @pmaitra , @Zebra , @ezsasa and others........

Looks like Ashok Leyland may beat Tata to it, again.

For truck mounted artillery, they need a truck. That's how Ashok Leyland came in that consortium.

Now, if, again if, KMW-Nexter and L&T come together for Indian tank project, then why they need Ashok Leyland...!

 

[Rowdy]

then why they need Ashok Leyland...!

49% FDI limit. .....................................

 

[blueblood]

For truck mounted artillery, they need a truck. That's how Ashok Leyland came in that consortium.

Now, if, again if, KMW-Nexter and L&T come together for Indian tank project, then why they need Ashok Leyland...!

In addition to what Rowdy pointed out. Frankly, I don't think they needed AL for trucks. They could have gone to n number of manufacturers like Scania, Kamaz, Bharat Benz or MAN.

They needed someone to navigate the muddy waters of MOD for them. I could be wrong but L&T's interaction with the army is very limited unlike Navy same goes for their expertise in making vehicles of any kind.

Why would you discard a partner with expertise and infrastructure?

 

[pmaitra]

Trucks do not matter, but having a foreign weapon system mated to an Indian truck might makes it cheaper for India to buy and for the weapon seller to sell. Moreover, it can serve the purpose of meeting any local content requirements. Many people do that.

L&T-Ashok Leyland-Nexter 155mm CEASAR gun mounted on an Indian-built Super Stallion 6x6 chassis

Almaz-Antey TOR-M2KM surface-to-air defense missile system mounted on 8x8 TATA truck

 

[sob]

In addition to what Rowdy pointed out. Frankly, I don't think they needed AL for trucks. They could have gone to n number of manufacturers like Scania, Kamaz, Bharat Benz or MAN.

They needed someone to navigate the muddy waters of MOD for them. I could be wrong but L&T's interaction with the army is very limited unlike Navy same goes for their expertise in making vehicles of any kind.

Why would you discard a partner with expertise and infrastructure?

L&T has extensive contacts with the Army also. They have made launchers for Pinaka, Prithvi, Agni to name a few.

 

[blueblood]

L&T has extensive contacts with the Army also. They have made launchers for Pinaka, Prithvi, Agni to name a few.

I thought it was Tata power SED. I stand corrected.

@pmaitra , companies I mentioned are all manufacturing trucks in India.

 

[sob]

I thought it was Tata power SED. I stand corrected.

@pmaitra , companies I mentioned are all manufacturing trucks in India.

Most of the orders were split between these two.

 

[pmaitra]

I thought it was Tata power SED. I stand corrected.

@pmaitra , companies I mentioned are all manufacturing trucks in India.

These are the Indian truck making concerns, except one.

• L&T does not make trucks.
• AMW makes civilian and military trucks.
• Bharat Benz makes only civilian trucks.
• Scania makes only civilian trucks.
• MAN makes only civilian trucks.
• KamAZ makes only civilian trucks.
• UralAZ makes civilian and military trucks.
• Tata Motors makes civilian and military trucks.
• Ashok Leyland makes civilian and military trucks.
• HVF Jabalpur makes only military trucks.

Did I miss anything out?

Edit: Corrigendum.

 

[Shaitan]

I thought it was Tata power SED. I stand corrected.

@pmaitra , companies I mentioned are all manufacturing trucks in India.

I think L&T makes the canister, TATA POWER SED produces the launch system.

 

[blueblood]

These are the Indian truck making concerns, except one.

• L&T does not make trucks.
• AMW makes only civilian trucks.
• Bharat Benz makes only civilian trucks.
  
• Scania makes only civilian trucks.
  
• MAN makes only civilian trucks.
  
• KamAZ makes only civilian trucks.
• UralAZ makes civilian and military trucks.
• Tata Motors makes civilian and military trucks.
• Ashok Leyland makes civilian and military trucks.
• HVF Jabalpur makes only military trucks.

Did I miss anything out?

They all make military trucks but I get your point. Thing is you are not getting mine. If you are a German company like Rheinmetall which do you think was an easier thing to do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_MAN_Military_Vehicles

Or Rheinmetall-Tata JV.

1) Asking your already well established JV partner to retool its factories and offer an entire range of products to Indian military. For eg. MAN LX and FX ranges of tactical trucks.

2) Do another JV with an Indian company and invest time & money in its future.

 

[pmaitra]

They all make military trucks but I get your point. Thing is you are not getting mine. If you are a German company like Rheinmetall which do you think was an easier thing to do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_MAN_Military_Vehicles

Or Rheinmetall-Tata JV.

1) Asking your already well established JV partner to retool its factories and offer an entire range of products to Indian military. For eg. MAN LX and FX ranges of tactical trucks.

2) Do another JV with an Indian company and invest time & money in its future.

No, they all don't make military trucks in India. That was the point. Mercedes Benz makes military trucks in Germany, but not in India. KamAZ makes military trucks in Russia, but not in India. Check out the websites of the Indian subsidiaries of the companies you marked in red.

Of course, it would be easier for Rheinmetall-MAN JV than Rheinmetall-TATA JV. I agree with you. With the latter option, at least the truck will be made in India, and I assume even with retooling, the manufacturing cost in India would be lesser. Not everything has to be retooled.

 

[Satybharat]

Good luck TATA........................

 

[blueblood]

No, they all don't make military trucks in India. That was the point. Mercedes Benz makes military trucks in Germany, but not in India. KamAZ makes military trucks in Russia, but not in India. Check out the websites of the Indian subsidiaries of the companies you marked in red.

Communication gap. I agreed with you there and unsuccessfully implied that they can manufacture military trucks in India if they wanted to.

Of course, it would be easier for Rheinmetall-MAN JV than Rheinmetall-TATA JV. I agree with you. With the latter option, at least the truck will be made in India, and I assume even with retooling, the manufacturing cost in India would be lesser. Not everything has to be retooled.

Then we are on the same page? Its not that they needed the trucks but AL & Tata contacts in the MOD.

Also looking at the extreme import friendly policies of our army, a German weapon system on a German platform but made in India cannot get any more attractive than this.

Well, it can but I don't think that Diane Kruger will agree.

 

[pmaitra]

These are the Indian truck making concerns, except one.

• L&T does not make trucks.
• AMW makes only civilian trucks.
• Bharat Benz makes only civilian trucks.
• Scania makes only civilian trucks.
• MAN makes only civilian trucks.
• KamAZ makes only civilian trucks.
• UralAZ makes civilian and military trucks.
• Tata Motors makes civilian and military trucks.
• Ashok Leyland makes civilian and military trucks.
• HVF Jabalpur makes only military trucks.

Did I miss anything out?

I just learnt that AMW does make 4x4 off road trucks, so I will correct my post.

Attn: @blueblood.

 

[bengalraider]

Well given that this discussion is about TATA i just had to butt in, well i grew up in Jamshedpur(dad worked with TATA motors for a good 32 years) . As far as developing a new product is concerned TATA probably has the biggest lineage in India, though the early TATA engines were bought from Mercedes and trucks were initially sold under the TATA Mercedes brand, almost all of TATAs HCV and LCV portfolio since has been a result of in house design and development.

Secondly about Armored vehicle design, well the TATAs are probably the only Indian business house to have forged and built armored vehicles ever!
I speak of course of the venerable TATANAGAR armored cars built by the group to serve allied forces in WW2.

 

[pmaitra]

@bengalraider,

Not just the engine, the entire design was Mercedes-Benz.

TELCO made both Mercedes-Benz trucks and bus chassis.

Bus chassis in front, truck chassis at the back.

Edited to add:

Spoiler: More pictures of Mercedes-Benz trucks.

Germany:

India: