Indian Tank Ammunition Scenario

[Kunal Biswas]

India buys anti-tank weapons of mass

India buys anti-tank weapons of mass

After the "ominous warning" Indian Army Chief of Staff Gen. VK Singh (VK Singh) that the ground troops' lack of critical munitions to destroy enemy tanks, "the government quickly placed orders for the purchase of a large number of tank shells and missiles to equip troops stationed on the Western Front at the borders of Pakistan, reported April 12 the Indian newspaper The Economic Times. Credible sources report that concluded or are preparing contracts for the purchase of 25,000 tank guided missiles (TUR) "Invar" and 66,000 armor-piercing shells feathered (BOPS) for the T-90S tanks, and 10,000 anti-tank "Competition-M." As you know, March 12, General Singh wrote a confidential letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh (Manmohan Singh), which became public knowledge. In a letter to Singh called a critical situation with equipment ammunition 1.13-million-strong Indian army. Entered into two large contracts for the purchase of Tour-3UBK Invar, which are powerful anti-tank weapons with a range of 5 km. Under the first contract in Russia must be received by 10,000 rockets. The remaining 15 000 missiles will be received by the second contract from the company PSU Bharat Dynamics Ltd. The third contract is associated with the purchase of 10,000 anti-tank "Competition-M". In February 2001, India signed a contract with Russia for the supply of 310 T-90S tanks in response to Pakistan's purchase of Ukrainian T-80UD tanks and proprietary "Al-Khalid." The plant is scheduled to release in 1000 Awadi T-90S tanks. In November 2007, was awarded another contract to supply 347 tanks of this type in Russia. The factory in Avadi produced 170 T-90S, this year will be produced about 100 tanks. In addition, the Army has ordered 124 tank "Arjun" in addition to the first contract of 2004, which planned to buy the same number of combat vehicles of its own design.

Gur Khan attacks!

 

[Koovie]

170 T 90s last year, good rate

 

[bhramos]

170 T 90s last year, good rate

Thats good news,
Congrats HVF Staff and personal..

 

[Rahul Singh]

^^^ They mean 'so far' not in a year. Also these tanks are being assembled from SKD kits from Russia and so far indigenous production is ceased due to lack of TOT as reported by Mr Ajai Shukla.

 

[Ray]

Time to get a move on!

 

[p2prada]

^^^ They mean 'so far' not in a year. Also these tanks are being assembled from SKD kits from Russia and so far indigenous production is ceased due to lack of TOT as reported by Mr Ajai Shukla.

Nope. All cleared. The 170 tanks produced are all mostly after the ToT was completed. SKD and CKD assembly was finished a long time ago, like years ago.

The 170 are from the first lot of the 300 odd tanks ordered by IA from the 1000 tank license. Ajai Shukla already reported this. We currently have over 900 tanks ready.

 

[sob]

Generally when you make purchases in an emergency then you end up paying a very high price as everybody knows the pressures behind the procurement.

Hope we had some long term contracts on these ammunition.

 

[Drsomnath999]

but what LAHAT missile can it be used on T 90s tanks

 

[Ray]

The problem with the T 90s is that since no parts are produced, when an operational tank goes off road, the SKD or CKDs are cannibalised to put it on road and that causes the backlog!

 

[Damian]

but what LAHAT missile can it be used on T 90s tanks

No, LAHAT can't be used in T-90S because it is one piece ammunition, while T-90S autoloader can use only two piece ammunition, so even 9M119 Invar GLATGM is a two piece ammunition. Besides this 9M119 being a 125mm calliber have higher penetration levels of it's warhead than LAHAT that is 105mm calliber and to be fired from 120mm or higher calliber weapon, needs sabot.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

No, LAHAT can't be used in T-90S because it is one piece ammunition, while T-90S autoloader can use only two piece ammunition, so even 9M119 Invar GLATGM is a two piece ammunition. Besides this 9M119 being a 125mm calliber have higher penetration levels of it's warhead than LAHAT that is 105mm calliber and to be fired from 120mm or higher calliber weapon, needs sabot.

The limitation is in the length of the ammunition and not because Re-loader can "only" use two piece ammunition. The T-90 can use both two piece and single piece ammunition.

The T-90s Bishma can not fire it because the auto-loader needs some alterations, which if Army chooses can be done just as in T-90MS or T-90A.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

170 T 90s last year, good rate

Even then it would take 10years.

 

[Damian]

The limitation is in the length of the ammunition and not because Re-loader can "only" use two piece ammunition. The T-90 can use both two piece and single piece ammunition.

The T-90s Bishma can not fire it because the auto-loader needs some alterations, which if Army chooses can be done just as in T-90MS or T-90A.

This autoloader was designed to fire two piece ammunition exactly because lenght and because desire to make it as compact as possible. Even standard one piece HEAT ammunition can't be used in this autoloader. Upgrades to autoloader in T-90A and T-90MS were done for two piece ammunition also.

Unless of course that You belive You can fire ammunition without propelant charge.

And show me at least single example of single piece ammunition developed for this autoloader.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

This autoloader was designed to fire two piece ammunition exactly because lenght and because desire to make it as compact as possible. Even standard one piece HEAT ammunition can't be used in this autoloader. Upgrades to autoloader in T-90A and T-90MS were done for two piece ammunition also.

Unless of course that You belive You can fire ammunition without propelant charge.

And show me at least single example of single piece ammunition developed for this autoloader.

As i said already, the auto loader on the T90s is designed for minimal space and it can fire only dual piece ammo. Not sure if this can be sorted out in the future by modifications as in the MS variant. The other older variants may be able to fire dual rounds. I never argued against it.

However i am not sure if the 9M119M is a dual piece one or single piece one?

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Looking at this animation if this is right then the Auto loader does seem to have room to hold a larger round??

Weather the Army uses a single round or not may not even be because it can not fire but merely because of the fact that they already bought 18,000 dual piece ones which they need to use anyway. Incurring more costs would not be wise hence they dont use it.

 

[Drsomnath999]

No, LAHAT can't be used in T-90S because it is one piece ammunition, while T-90S autoloader can use only two piece ammunition, so even 9M119 Invar GLATGM is a two piece ammunition. Besides this 9M119 being a 125mm calliber have higher penetration levels of it's warhead than LAHAT that is 105mm calliber and to be fired from 120mm or higher calliber weapon, needs sabot.

thanks for replying me

well i dont know about 2 piece ammunition of 9M119 Invar .I would like u to explain it more elaborately.


LAYMAN'S ANALYSIS OF INVAR & LAHAT MISSILE
1) INVAR MISSILE
One more thing there are 2 version of Invar missiles
9M119M & 9M119M-1 (INVAR -M)
THE previous one can penetrate
( 9M119M ) Main armor without ERA -700 ... 750 mm & Main armor with ERA = 650 ... 700 mm
meanwhile the latter one can penetrate
9M119M-1 (INVAR -M) Main armor without ERA - .. 900mm & Main armor with ERA= . 850 mm

both have a range of 5-6km

both have Hit probability 0.8

Google Translate

2)lahat missile

penetration range
providing effective penetration of up to 800 mm of armor steel with its tandem warhead to deal with add-on reactive armor.



effective operational range
The LAHAT missile has a range of 8 km when launched from a ground platform,

Hit propabilty: 0.7

Lahat Laser Guided Missile

so lahat has more range comparitely standard penetration range But less hit probabilty than Invar missile

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Lahat is better coz of its top attack mode, Its tandem too..

But it cannot be used from T-90S..

 

[Drsomnath999]

But it cannot be used from T-90S..

that was dissapointing

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Anyways,regarding AP, IA might get any of these two..

These will be most powerful AP rounds in IA tank ammo inventory..

 

[Damian]

As i said already, the auto loader on the T90s is designed for minimal space and it can fire only dual piece ammo. Not sure if this can be sorted out in the future by modifications as in the MS variant. The other older variants may be able to fire dual rounds. I never argued against it.

However i am not sure if the 9M119M is a dual piece one or single piece one?

? Both autoloader of older type in T-72's and later type in T-90's also in T-90MS is designed to use two piece ammunition only. In T-90A and T-90MS only modification that was done is to give a bit more space for longer APFSDS penetrators, nothing more, these autoloaders still can't use single piece ammunition, simply because Russians do not see a need for such ammunition, and they have good reasons. Two piece ammunition is easier to handle and load in to tank, gives capability to use more compact autoloader etc.

In reality not the fact that ammunition was two piece type was a factor why APFSDS penetrators are shorter than in western ammunition, the problem is in fact with autoloader only.

I'am not sure if You are aware that NATO 140mm smoothbore guns would also use two piece ammunition placed in autoloaders.

And yes, 9M119 is a two piece ammunition, as 9M112, 9M128, Kombat and similiar GLATGM's designed in Soviet Union, Russia or Ukraine.

Looking at this animation if this is right then the Auto loader does seem to have room to hold a larger round??

Weather the Army uses a single round or not may not even be because it can not fire but merely because of the fact that they already bought 18,000 dual piece ones which they need to use anyway. Incurring more costs would not be wise hence they dont use it.

Autoloader can handle only two piece ammunition, such graphics are not entirely correct, however close to reality. But the lenght of ammunition cassette is not a factor here, You should remember that cassettes are placed below main gun breach, so even after modifications their lenght is limited so the whole mechanism can work properly.

BTW, here is a photo of both pieces of 9M119M Invar GLATGM.

What we see is:

Both parts are 3UBK20 projectile, 9M119M missile and 9Kh949 reduced charge propellant casing with a spacer plug which seats the missile properly into the main gun.

http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/ARM/refleks.html