Tank Ammunitions of Indian Army

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by agentperry, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,022
    Likes Received:
    678
    Location:
    delhi
    New Delhi:



    The Army has officially conveyed to the government that its war reserves for certain ammunition have fallen below critical levels. This has led the Defence Ministry to kickstart emergency procurement in some cases by exempting them from the offsets policy. This policy requires that in any purchase of over Rs 300 crore, the company or firm involved must re-invest 30 per cent back in India.

    The instant case is that of tank ammunition called the Armoured Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot (APFSDS). The Army is learnt to have put it down in writing that it needs about 66,000 APFSDS rounds as an “immediate operational necessity”. Similar is the problem with ammunition for the Smerch multi-barrel rocket launcher systems.

    The APFSDS is vital for the Armoured Corps to take down enemy tanks in a tank-to-tank battle. India had a long-term arrangement with Israel for the ammunition but with Israel Military Industries (IMI) now blacklisted — facing a CBI probe — the Army has had to scout for fresh suppliers.



    A Russian entity is said to have come forward but has quoted a price that is roughly 400 per cent higher than usual taking the cost beyond Rs1000 crore. This high quote had the Defence Acquisition Committee in a spot since the Russian firm is said to have been unwilling to accept the offset policy’s 30 per cent condition.

    Result: the government last week exempted the deal from the offsets policy.

    Defence Minister A K Antony, who left for Russia this morning on a bilateral visit, is expected to take up the issue of high cost with the Russian government at a political level.

    Meanwhile, in a similar case, the government has decided to float tenders to urgently import Bi-Modular Charge (BMC) systems. Without this charge in their ammunition, the upgraded 130-mm artillery guns can only fire a range of 18 to 23 km, which is half their range of 38-40 km. The BMC systems were to be made in the new Nalanda Ordnance Factory, but that has failed to take off because IMI and South African technology partner Somtech, a subsidiary of Denel, are in the blacklist.

    * dont know what the hell OFB R&D department and ARDE etc do. such hi tech shells are nowhere to be seen in drdo brochures. just ww2 vinage shells*
     
  2.  
  3. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,625
    Likes Received:
    11,703
    Kushal sinha and Kunal Biswas like this.
  4. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,541
    Likes Received:
    1,260
    Location:
    Bangalore
    These ammos were supposed to be made in Nalanda factory, the IAI was black listed. Some times it is very curious that none of the Russian firms gets black listed, where as every one else gets short end of stick, with no results to show off. Now with high prices politicos and babus will make a killing.
     
  5. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Messages:
    20,995
    Likes Received:
    11,830
    Location:
    Akhand Bharat
    hume to bofors scandel le dobba.. The ghost of bofors haunting every deal and company now.

    here i support and hail pak army .Salee 1 minute legate ha to buy or beg stuff.we cant even do both:mad2::mad2:
     
  6. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    5,670
    Oh man, Indian Army scales new heights again and again fumbling in management of its weapons. How did they come to a pass that suddenly there is a shortage of 66,000 APFSDS rounds. What were they doing all this while?? or is it MoDs fumbling in procuring them on a timely fashion. Wastage of money one more time. Well done GoI.
     
  7. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    27,604
    Likes Received:
    28,414
    Location:
    BHARAT, INDIA, HINDUSTHAN
    Some thing is very wrong, OFB supply Ammo to all T-tanks in India, I have seen OFB shells myself..

    How come they are under shortage ?
     
    sayareakd likes this.
  8. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,625
    Likes Received:
    11,703
    because OFB and DRDO dont pay unlike foreign suppliers........................
     
  9. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,233
    Likes Received:
    3,896
    Location:
    Holy Hell
    Thousands of AMK-40 shells were destroyed because they were freezing in barrels when fired. It killed crews in T-72s. A new requirement was placed in 2010 but not much progress has been made. Looking at the article I am guessing MoD is taking it's own sweet time at making this decision.

    Don't worry too much. This is one of those typical reports to get the govt working faster.
     
  10. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7,093
    Likes Received:
    3,895
    Location:
    Delhi
    Blacklist effect: Tank ammo at critical low levels, MoD waives policy to buy :thumb:

    Posted: Tue Oct 04 2011, 03:02 hrs
    New Delhi:


    The Army has officially conveyed to the government that its war reserves for certain ammunition have fallen below critical levels. This has led the Defence Ministry to kickstart emergency procurement in some cases by exempting them from the offsets policy. This policy requires that in any purchase of over Rs 300 crore, the company or firm involved must re-invest 30 per cent back in India.

    The instant case is that of tank ammunition called the Armoured Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot (APFSDS). The Army is learnt to have put it down in writing that it needs about 66,000 APFSDS rounds as an “immediate operational necessity”. Similar is the problem with ammunition for the Smerch multi-barrel rocket launcher systems.

    The APFSDS is vital for the Armoured Corps to take down enemy tanks in a tank-to-tank battle. India had a long-term arrangement with Israel for the ammunition but with Israel Military Industries (IMI) now blacklisted — facing a CBI probe — the Army has had to scout for fresh suppliers.

    A Russian entity is said to have come forward but has quoted a price that is roughly 400 per cent higher than usual taking the cost beyond Rs1000 crore. This high quote had the Defence Acquisition Committee in a spot since the Russian firm is said to have been unwilling to accept the offset policy’s 30 per cent condition.

    Result: the government last week exempted the deal from the offsets policy.

    Defence Minister A K Antony, who left for Russia this morning on a bilateral visit, is expected to take up the issue of high cost with the Russian government at a political level.

    Meanwhile, in a similar case, the government has decided to float tenders to urgently import Bi-Modular Charge (BMC) systems. Without this charge in their ammunition, the upgraded 130-mm artillery guns can only fire a range of 18 to 23 km, which is half their range of 38-40 km. The BMC systems were to be made in the new Nalanda Ordnance Factory, but that has failed to take off because IMI and South African technology partner Somtech, a subsidiary of Denel, are in the blacklist.

    Blacklist effect: Tank ammo at critical low levels, MoD waives policy to buy - Indian Express

     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011
  11. Austin

    Austin Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    354
    I recollect reading 80 thousand OFB tank rounds were waster becuase of some manufacturing defects and they had to be thrown leading to crores of losses , the tank shell had the tendency to blow off when it was fired and the tank crew were shit scared to use it , couple of them lost their life using it.

    Its a case of criminal negligence but no one will sue OFB for it
     
  12. Austin

    Austin Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    354
    Here it is Flaws in T 90 Main Battle Tanks troubles Indian Army

     
  13. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    27,604
    Likes Received:
    28,414
    Location:
    BHARAT, INDIA, HINDUSTHAN
    OFB quality of working is so messed up now its in INSAS or its ammo or Tank Shells, OFB lack discipline, Dont know abt Pay roll..

    These guys need discipline and need basics upgrade of manufacturing plants..


    Though 80,000 shells were fraction of IA tank ordinance, also T-72 and T-90S use different Ammo, Still army looking for Foreign ammo, Hopefully they will buy top class Russian ammo..
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011
  14. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,507
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    LOL! why the sudden hurryit's not like all the tanks are going to war ????
     
  15. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,754
    Likes Received:
    3,273
    Location:
    Modindia
    Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst :namaste:
     
    SPIEZ likes this.
  16. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,835
    Likes Received:
    2,169
    Why Indian Army use for excercises combat ammunition and not practice ammunition? :confused:

    BTW, about these accidents, so there were explosions and cook-off of ammunition inside T-72 and possibly T-90 tanks?

    I heard and seen similiar accidents in Russia, IRCC some crews were dead, not good informations.
     
  17. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    27,604
    Likes Received:
    28,414
    Location:
    BHARAT, INDIA, HINDUSTHAN
    The Problem is with the charge..
     
  18. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,835
    Likes Received:
    2,169
    It is too much sensitive to weather conditions (too high temperatures)? Or something else?
     
  19. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,434
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    Location:
    Land of the GODS - "Dev Bhomi".
    this is an amazing stuff.

    IMI gets blacklisted because of corruption charges, but for the same thing now there is just one supplier, is quoting the price at 400% over and above the prevailing market price (imagine the same being bought for 250crs) and the 30% off set policy is being set aside (for some reason the russians just dont do it).

    what could be a bigger fraud than this? here is a blatant fraud happening and antony is sleeping over it!!!
     
  20. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    27,604
    Likes Received:
    28,414
    Location:
    BHARAT, INDIA, HINDUSTHAN
    The charge bag have fault in manufacturing..

    The propellant in semi solid form expanded under extrema heat and leaked out of the charge bag, Do note Indian Armour plays mainly in Thar desert and other western sector ( Extrema Heat ) Also do not Indian T-90 & T-72 dont have AC to keep things cool inside..

    New powerful ammo comes with new tech in older Tank guns too, that need to be noted too..
     
  21. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,835
    Likes Received:
    2,169
    So maybe India should talk with Germans or Americans, I think that it is possible for them to adapt their KE penetrators and propelant charges for T-72, T-90 and Arjun tanks, Germans can offer DM43, DM53 and DM63 based projectiles while Americans can offer KEW-A1 and KEW-A2 based projectiles, all of them made from Tungsten alloys and with high penetration capabilities, all are also designed to be used in high temperatures, so should meet all demands of Indian Army.

    My country also had problems with Israeli made APFSDS ammunition, when cooperation was switched to Germans, no problems with ammunition quality, AFAIK Arab countries also don't have any quality problems with US KEW ammunition series.

    Maybe it is worth to try?

    Or Ukrainians, they have good 125mm two piece ammunition, we also can offer some products, but I do not know what is the status of production.

    It is very strange that propelant leaked from bags, strange and unacceptabale, someone should be punished for such fucked up situation.

    Good.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011

Share This Page