Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troops

Black Blood

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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

Religion aside they controlled afghanistan for 300 years. Far from afghanistan being
their graveyard.
Only because it made them harmonious with the existing structure. Mongols, settled where ever the went, ie modern day Turks do derive a fair % of their population from mongol ancestry who converted to Islam after conquering Bagdad and other countries.
 
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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

Only because it made them harmonious with the existing structure. Mongols, settled where ever the went, ie modern day Turks do derive a fair % of their population from mongol ancestry who converted to Islam after conquering Bagdad and other countries.
Just a quick history lesson Mongols were animists when the destroyed Baghdad the capital of the Abbasid caliphate,
kabul and much of Persia.
 
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W.G.Ewald

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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

Here starts the "versions of history" debate...
Can you refute what the article's author says, point by point, or are you just going to be like a little dog gnawing at a bone?
 
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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

I, know that..
They were not representatives of Islam in anyway during their Conquests. After
Mongol rulers embraced islam their empire started it's decline.
 
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W.G.Ewald

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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

There is a existing thread on that article, link in post #6.
Here is the rest of the article:
And what about the Soviets? To be sure, the quagmire they faced in Afghanistan -- with all of its economic, political, and psychological consequences -- was a major factor in the collapse of their political system. But even the most skeptical historians concede that around 1984 or so, the Soviets were actually getting the better of the mujahideen. It was the U.S. decision to send shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles to the Afghan resistance, which robbed the Russian helicopter gunships of their superiority, that allowed the guerrillas to stage a comeback.

The bottom line, though, is that the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan represented a radical break with the country's past, not an extension of it. The Soviets and their Afghan communist allies wiped out entire communities and devastated wide swaths of the countryside, sending millions of refugees fleeing across the borders. They systematically targeted traditional institutions and elites, leaving behind a power vacuum that was eagerly seized upon -- but never quite filled -- by a new brand of revolutionary Islamists, promoted by Pakistan and abetted from afar by eager cold warriors in Washington.

These communist attempts to impose utopian designs on a deeply traditional society triggered what Barfield describes as Afghanistan's "first national insurgency" -- one that transcended old dividing lines of tribe and ethnicity. As Barfield points out, the war against the Soviets was sharply different from previous rebellions in Afghanistan's history as a state, which were relatively fleeting and almost always local affairs, usually revolving around dynastic power struggles. "From 1929 to 1978," he says, "the country was completely at peace." In some respects, one might hazard, the current insurgency -- as an almost exclusively Pashtun affair -- harks back to an earlier, more fragmented pattern of Afghanistan's history. But that, by itself, doesn't make it an insurmountable problem. Just the opposite, in fact.

Unfortunately, popular views of the place today are shaped by the past 30 years of seemingly unceasing warfare rather than substantive knowledge of the country's history. Anti-war activists routinely blame the post-2001 Western military presence in the country for the destruction of national infrastructure and the widespread cultivation of opium poppies -- both of which actually date back to the Soviet invasion and the civil war that followed. Others play up the notion of Afghanistan as inherently immune to civilization: "We are not going to ever defeat the insurgency," said Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper on CNN in 2009. "Afghanistan has probably had -- my reading of Afghanistan history -- it's probably had an insurgency forever, of some kind."

Barfield contends that the Afghans have long understood the tendency of foreigners to view them as untamable savages and have been happy to leverage the stereotype to their advantage. "The Afghans use hyperbole of history to exaggerate [their] strengths in order to deter invaders," he says. "In this case, a poor knowledge of their history goes a long way to convincing others to stay away, but it can be a dangerous illusion." Back in 2001, Barfield says, Mullah Omar and Osama bin Laden recycled the myth to themselves -- only to watch Taliban rule, and al Qaeda's safe haven, collapse under U.S. bombing.

I made my first visit to Afghanistan that same year. The Afghans I met were neither xenophobic nor bellicose. What they wanted most of all was peace, and they didn't trust their own leaders to bring it. "We're sick of fighting. We hate war. We want to have a free election," one grizzled -- and illiterate -- warrior told me. "And let's have the United Nations come in and make sure it's fair, so the warlords don't interfere." I heard similar views from many Afghans. Nowadays that vision sounds a bit like a dream, and it's hard to say precisely how many of his compatriots shared it for real, but I can't help recalling the sentiment. One thing is for sure: If we really want Afghans to attain the future they deserve, clinging to a fake version of their history won't help.
 

Black Blood

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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

Can you refute what the article's author says, point by point, or are you just going to be like a little dog gnawing at a bone?
Even if i do it will not change your opinions, Americans believe in selective history, the one they write and the one where they are the winners. Majority of the American public knows nothing about why their govt lead them into this endless war. Ignorant souls still, think, that the Pentagon is fighting the taliban here..

Regardless of how big the claims, of "the openness" Americans come up with, they still choose to believe what suits them, and justifies their past actions, be it annihilating the Indians, obliterating two civilian cities, killing millions of viets, Iraqis and so on.... As long as the written word justifies what mother America does, it becomes accepted history--even if it means justifying a state system that until 40 years go considered its own black citizens as unequal.

Never mind, read this: Afghanistan: “It's Just Damage Limitation Now” | TIME.com
 

W.G.Ewald

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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

Welcome to the graveyard of empires....
Well, Americans were willing to believe that while Ivan was being abused there.
 

Black Blood

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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

They were not representatives of Islam in anyway during their Conquests. After
Mongol rulers embraced islam their empire started it's decline.
Empire and Islam don't mix. There is zero place for kings in Islam, you cannot make a true monarchist out of a true Muslim. Every Muslim country historically, which has adopted the kingdom model has collapsed.
 
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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

Empire and Islam don't mix. There is zero place for kings in Islam, you cannot make a true monarchist out of a true Muslim. Every Muslim country historically, which has adopted the kingdom model has collapsed.
Ottoman empire lasted almost 600 years.
 

Black Blood

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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

Ottoman empire lasted almost 600 years.
It was a Caliphate, it became an empire later on and collapsed. [It was the longest standing in human history]
 
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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

It was a Caliphate, it became an empire later on and collapsed. [It was the longest standing in human history]
so your original statement is not true?? Also it is not the longest Roman empire lasted
more than 1000 years.
 

Black Blood

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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

so your original statement is not true?? Also it is not the longest Roman empire lasted
more than 1000 years.
Caliphate is not an empire nor a monarchist kingdom,its a different system of governance,based more in democracy than anything else, so no my statement stands the same. My case is that Muslim countries fall when they adopt a kingdom model, it doesn't last long. Arab spring is a good case study in that regard.
 
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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

Caliphate is not an empire nor a monarchist kingdom,its a different system of governance,based more in democracy than anything else, so no my statement stands the same.
you are mixing religion and history Caliphate can not be generalized Ottoman caliphite and
Abbasid calaphite and others were all different. Ottoman empire were focused on expansion thru
military force.
 

Black Blood

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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

you are mixing religion and history Caliphate can not be generalized Ottoman caliphite and
Abbasid calaphite and others were all different. Ottoman empire were focused on expansion thru
military force.
They were different, because of obvious reasons. But the collapse of those Caliphates is rooted in the same set of causes which makes it a good case study in the context of the Arab spring.
 
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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

They were different, because of obvious reasons. But the collapse of those Caliphates is rooted in the same set of causes which makes it a good case study in the context of the Arab spring.
How exactly the caliphates were never united in history neither were shiites and sunnis??
 

Black Blood

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Re: Taliban attacks US base in Afghanistan, killing three Afghan troop

How exactly the caliphates were never united in history neither were shiites and sunnis??
Deep religious topic, which i wont get involved in.
 

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