Tajikistan gives land to China

[nimo_cn]

Sikkim had a "referendum" genius. The people VOTED 98% in favour of acceding to Indian Union. And not the first time. The last time we were in a similar state was Mauryan empire 2,300 years ago. I would suggest you ask us from Sikkim rather than believe in what People's Daily feeds you.

Referendum conducted under the coercion of Indian Army, what a joke!

 

[mayfair]

Referendum conducted under the coercion of Indian Army, what a joke!

You're havin' a laff..A Chicom accusing others of coercion, now that's what I call a joke.

 

[civfanatic]

I disagree with you friend, there are many areas where no human population exists but it doesn't mean that it can be handed over to any country. Kashmir and Aksai chin is area of strategic importance.

Aksai Chin is of strategic importance to China but not to India. China needs it because of the highway that passes through the land (it is the only link between Kashgar in Xinjiang and Tibet). This highway was built in the 1950s and it is the sole reason why China entered the territory in the first place.

For India, the region is a strategic liability more than anything, which was proved in the past. Look at the map to see why.

As for the land itself, is important to note that a country's most important asset is not its land but rather its people. If Aksai Chin were home to Indians, then I would unreservedly support its return to India. After all, it is a government's top priority to protect its citizens and ensure their welfare. But that is not the case. I would gladly fight for some rocks if those rocks were home to Indians, but I would never fight for the sake of the rocks themselves.

History is littered with countries who have fallen because they became too sentimental over inconsequential disputes. Let us not be one of them.

China can place its missiles and troops in it and can pose major threat to India. Think 100 times before you agree with that.

Chinese missiles and military assets placed in Lhasa or Tibet proper are a far greater threat to India. Placing any assets in Aksai Chin is stupid because they are literally a minute away from IAF bases in Leh and Kashmir Valley.

Arunachal pradesh is already India's part and India don't need anybody's certificate for it.

Why does CCP claim Arunachal Pradesh in the first place? Do you think CCP really believes that Arunachal Pradesh is rightful Chinese territory, or that India will ever give it up in negotiations? Why do they continue the claim, even though they captured the whole region in 1962, only to withdraw later?

Friend, it is important to view Chinese claims and counterclaims in a much wider geopolitical context. Only then you will understand their true intentions.

You are absolutely right that India doesn't need a certificate to exercise its control its own land. But in order to resolve disputes on a permament basis, it is necessary for both sides to compromise. There is a reason why India keeps its claim on Aksai Chin even today, even though the chances of getting it back are almost nil.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Atleast INDIAN ARMY is controlled by our Democratic Government. But entire china is controlled by PLA. You people are controlled by ARMY and you say that IA controls us. You must be day dreaming.........

 

[JayATL]

R+E+F+E+R+E+N+D+U+N ...................IN BLOOD!

 

[captonjohn]

Aksai Chin is of strategic importance to China but not to India. China needs it because of the highway that passes through the land (it is the only link between Kashgar in Xinjiang and Tibet). This highway was built in the 1950s and it is the sole reason why China entered the territory in the first place.

For India, the region is a strategic liability more than anything, which was proved in the past. Look at the map to see why.

As for the land itself, is important to note that a country's most important asset is not its land but rather its people. If Aksai Chin were home to Indians, then I would unreservedly support its return to India. After all, it is a government's top priority to protect its citizens and ensure their welfare. But that is not the case. I would gladly fight for some rocks if those rocks were home to Indians, but I would never fight for the sake of the rocks themselves.

History is littered with countries who have fallen because they became too sentimental over inconsequential disputes. Let us not be one of them.



Chinese missiles and military assets placed in Lhasa or Tibet proper are a far greater threat to India. Placing any assets in Aksai Chin is stupid because they are literally a minute away from IAF bases in Leh and Kashmir Valley.



Why does CCP claim Arunachal Pradesh in the first place? Do you think CCP really believes that Arunachal Pradesh is rightful Chinese territory, or that India will ever give it up in negotiations? Why do they continue the claim, even though they captured the whole region in 1962, only to withdraw later?

Friend, it is important to view Chinese claims and counterclaims in a much wider geopolitical context. Only then you will understand their true intentions.

You are absolutely right that India doesn't need a certificate to exercise its control its own land. But in order to resolve disputes on a permament basis, it is necessary for both sides to compromise. There is a reason why India keeps its claim on Aksai Chin even today, even though the chances of getting it back are almost nil.

Sorry mate but this doesn't mean for any country that he should not defend its territory which has no population. USA has very least population in Alaska but still nobody can dare to grab an inch of land from them because it is of their strategic importance land. In the same way china also has very least population in many areas but he'll never give you that land or let you grab their land whatever reason you present to them. Then why shouldn't india defend its land which has more strategic importance.

Of course Aksai chin is not our first priority but by giving this land officially to china would increase the hunger of more land to china and this will pose a weak image to world. Aksai chin is a land of political and strategic interest so India can't allow them to take it specially when china claiming arunachal pradesh and creating infrastructure in POK.

I also favor to solve all dispute but not at the cost of our land or our sovereignty and freedom. We are not interested in solving any problem in this way even nobody would be interested in this.

 

[captonjohn]

Referendum conducted under the coercion of Indian Army, what a joke!

You should see first your government and its army's control on their region. Don't you have complete military dominance in Tibet?

 

[mcukiller]

not a good news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[civfanatic]

Sorry mate but this doesn't mean for any country that he should not defend its territory which has no population. USA has very least population in Alaska but still nobody can dare to grab an inch of land from them because it is of their strategic importance land. In the same way china also has very least population in many areas but he'll never give you that land or let you grab their land whatever reason you present to them. Then why shouldn't india defend its land which has more strategic importance.

Of course Aksai chin is not our first priority but by giving this land officially to china would increase the hunger of more land to china and this will pose a weak image to world. Aksai chin is a land of political and strategic interest so India can't allow them to take it specially when china claiming arunachal pradesh and creating infrastructure in POK.

Can you explain what strategic importance Aksai Chin has for India?

I also favor to solve all dispute but not at the cost of our land or our sovereignty and freedom. We are not interested in solving any problem in this way even nobody would be interested in this.

At this point there is no better solution. It is not in our capability nor interests to capture Aksai Chin from China through force, nor is China a Pakistan that is on the brink of civil war.

We should be willing to accept a compromise that puts these issues in the dustbin of history once and for all.

 

[captonjohn]

Can you explain what strategic importance Aksai Chin has for India?



At this point there is no better solution. It is not in our capability nor interests to capture Aksai Chin from China through force, nor is China a Pakistan that is on the brink of civil war.

We should be willing to accept a compromise that puts these issues in the dustbin of history once and for all.

This is not a business deal where we can compromise but an interest of a nation having one billion population. What does your mean? Aksai chin is not of India's interest then give it to others? In this way there are many areas which has no strategic interest then will you favor to give them to other country?

My point is simple and straight that is no any part of land can be given to any country for any reason, forget about compromise. Your comment reflects your lack of information about Indian capabilities. Think for a while if india is so weak and china is so much strong as you think then why china haven't grabbed arunanchal pradesh by force?

When tibet were not a part of china then how can aksai chin be a part of china? Research more about indian and chinese capabilities and you will see the difference. China project itself bigger than what really it is and india don't have enough confidence on its capability which is more than what indian thinks.

in short if china is willing to compromise by giving land and leaving its claim on arunachal pradesh then India can think on aksai chin but china won't let you take a single inch of its land whether it is of strategic interest or not.

 

[houde10000]

This is not a business deal where we can compromise but an interest of a nation having one billion population. What does your mean? Aksai chin is not of India's interest then give it to others? In this way there are many areas which has no strategic interest then will you favor to give them to other country?

My point is simple and straight that is no any part of land can be given to any country for any reason, forget about compromise. Your comment reflects your lack of information about Indian capabilities. Think for a while if india is so weak and china is so much strong as you think then why china haven't grabbed arunanchal pradesh by force?

When tibet were not a part of china then how can aksai chin be a part of china? Research more about indian and chinese capabilities and you will see the difference. China project itself bigger than what really it is and india don't have enough confidence on its capability which is more than what indian thinks.

in short if china is willing to compromise by giving land and leaving its claim on arunachal pradesh then India can think on aksai chin but china won't let you take a single inch of its land whether it is of strategic interest or not.

Mr. captonjohn,

Your words prove: the territorial disputes can never be solved by negotiation.

For chinese, they have already shown indian so many evidences Tibet is belonged to China, South Tibet is chinese land historically; for indian, you believe all you took is yours, not even one inch can be returned. So it is clear, it just waste both side time to argue the history and negotiate the compromise solution.

If chinese still want to get the 90,000sqk land back, they have to prepare a war, otherwise there is no peaceful way to get their claimed land back.

If indian don't want to lose your land, you also has to seriously prepare the war, otherwise, you not just lose the 90,000sqk land, you could lose SKIKKIM, BUTAN, NEPAL,EAST INDIA Section, etc, maybe India get dismembered!!!

I see what chinese is preparing, spending over 100billion dollars on military budget, how about India? 30 billion? do you think it is enough? China has its 5G jet fighter in air, do you really trust russian partner? do you really believe you can get T50 on scheduling? the AC story won't happen again? chinese navy get 20 new boats, 30 new submarins in 10 years, how about indian navy?

Sorry, don't want to offend anyone, I am just a pure military fan or you can call me war fan, I really want to see India and China wrestle, want to see the result.

 

[pmaitra]

Sorry, don't want to offend anyone, I am just a pure military fan or you can call me war fan, I really want to see India and China wrestle, want to see the result.

No offense taken. You and I have a lot in common. Even I agree that negotiations can never yield results. Even I want to see results. Results like:

• Independent East Turkestan
• Independent Tibet
• Aksai Chin and Shaksgam returned to India.
• Lands south of the Ussuri river returned to the Russian Federation.
• Islands originally belonging to Vietnam returned.

It feels nice to see PRC is preparing for war. You better prepare well, lest you lose even the original Han Chinese lands. We are better prepared than earlier. Good luck.

 

[houde10000]

No offense taken. You and I have a lot in common. Even I agree that negotiations can never yield results. Even I want to see results. Results like:

• Independent East Turkestan
• Independent Tibet
• Aksai Chin and Shaksgam returned to India.
• Lands south of the Ussuri river returned to the Russian Federation.
• Islands originally belonging to Vietnam returned.

I feels nice to see PRC is preparing for war. You better prepare well, lest you lose even the original Han Chinese lands. We are better prepared than earlier. Good luck.

Mr. Pmaitra,

Because this is Indian Forum, so when I write my post, I will stand on chinese side to ask indian some serious questions, you are right, if chinese lose the war, what you listed also could happen. Thank you very much for your commentary.

I am also looking for your opinion about indian military budget, i feel it is not enough to compete with China.

 

[pmaitra]

Mr. Pmaitra,

Because this is Indian Forum, so when I write my post, I will stand on chinese side to ask indian some serious questions, you are right, if chinese lose the war, what you listed also could happen. Thank you very much for your commentary.

I am also looking for your opinion about indian military budget, i feel it is not enough to compete with China.

Sad but true. India's budget is nowhere near PRC budget. However, if and when we manage to enter Tibet and East Turkestan, the local people will come out in hordes and rally behind us. If PLA enters India, that can never happen. This is a serious disadvantage on the part of PRC.

 

[Armand2REP]

For chinese, they have already shown indian so many evidences Tibet is belonged to China, South Tibet is chinese land historically

CCP bases its claims on being the decedent of Mongol Khanates. That is hardly a legitimate claim for ownership.

If chinese still want to get the 90,000sqk land back, they have to prepare a war, otherwise there is no peaceful way to get their claimed land back.

If indian don't want to lose your land, you also has to seriously prepare the war, otherwise, you not just lose the 90,000sqk land, you could lose SKIKKIM, BUTAN, NEPAL,EAST INDIA Section, etc, maybe India get dismembered!!!

Do you know what would happen if you lost a war to India? East Turkestan and Tibet would revolt, Aksai Chin and Shaksgam goes back to India. Taiwan declares independence, Vietnam resets claims... all hell for CCP.

I see what chinese is preparing, spending over 100billion dollars on military budget, how about India? 30 billion? do you think it is enough? China has its 5G jet fighter in air, do you really trust russian partner? do you really believe you can get T50 on scheduling? the AC story won't happen again? chinese navy get 20 new boats, 30 new submarins in 10 years, how about indian navy?

You spend over $100 billion and what do you have to show for it? 140 J-10s with Russian engines and radars, a tarmac full of J-11B with no engines, PLAAF made up largely of MiG-21 clones? An Army with only a handful of modernised brigades? A submarine fleet still dominated by Foxtrot clones? SSBNs with no missiles? A surface and SSK fleet using European diesels and sonars? A helicopter fleet even India would laugh at? You spend so much but get so little... good job. No one of knowledge on the subject is worried about your 5th gen fighter with no AESA, poor maneuverability and huge cross section.

Sorry, don't want to offend anyone, I am just a pure military fan or you can call me war fan, I really want to see India and China wrestle, want to see the result.

Sorry, don't want to offend you but the Chinese military is 30 years behind the West in key technologies.

 

[houde10000]

Sad but true. India's budget is nowhere near PRC budget. However, if and when we manage to enter Tibet and East Turkestan, the local people will come out in hordes and rally behind us. If PLA enters India, that can never happen. This is a serious disadvantage on the part of PRC.

Mr. pmaitra,

I can not agree with you, i guess you don't really know East Turkestan and Tibet.

East Turkestan is not world accepted name of chinese Xinjiang province, anyway, i will use your word. There are over 25 million people living in this province, Han is over 50%, Uyghur is about 35%, the left 15% are HUI, Kazakian, ..., only Uyghur looking for separating from China, and definately not all Uyghur support the separatism, I don't think over 10% of East Turkestan people support any separatism. Even the 10% supporting separatism, they are all extremism muslin, I don't think they will support Indian troop, you know Taliban, so you understand what i mean. Byway, I have to explain to you one important fact, there are a special Han farmers group "Nong Ken Jianshe Bingtuan", translate in English is "Land Reclamation Construction Corps", they are not minuteman, they are army without uniform, plus their family, their number is over 2 million, this trandational system can be tracked back from 200BC, when Han people started to settle in this region. Friendly remind, when you indian army plans to invade East Turkistan, don't forget to count them.

Tibet, you can not just listen what Dalai Lama said, because Dailai and his fellowers (about 100,000) are top 5% tibetan rulers, like landlord, Lama, etc. They owned 90% tibetan land, the left 95% tibetan are serf, the Dalai Lama's tibetan is more like medieval time, of course, Dalai Lama won't tell you that, his kingdom is heaven, but that's not for all Tibetan. If you think all tibetan will like Dalai Lama support Indian troop, that's a big mistake. As I know, PLA can beat Indian army in 1962, the tibetan civilian support is one important reason, even 8 year old tibetan boy following his parents carried canned food and artillery shells to support PLA, they are all volunteer, nobody got pay to do that. Tibetan, even Dalai Lama knows China is the only country can offer tibetan metarial life, for sure, India can not pay that, Dalai and his fellowers screaming, but they are not foolish, I doubt they really support Indian to take Tibetan.

The modern war really burns money, most time you not really lose the war, just run out your money. If you recongnize indian millitary budget nowhere close to chinese budget, how can you indian army cross Himalaya Mountain to invade Tibet and East Turkistan? As I know chinese is taking a big geographical advantage, they stand on plateau, their tank and jet can easily attact Indian plain, they J10, Su27 just 400Km away from New Deli, 10 minute can drop bomb on your head, how do you defend that? Even indian army occupy Tibetan and East Turkistan, chinese still can gether their troop from chinese east inland to kick you out, correct me if i am wrong?

Serious talking, want to hear your opinion

 

[pmaitra]

Mr. pmaitra,

I can not agree with you, i guess you don't really know East Turkestan and Tibet.

Maybe I don't know East Turkestan well. I am pretty sure my understanding of Tibet is much better than yours.

East Turkestan is not world accepted name of chinese Xinjiang province, anyway, i will use your word. There are over 25 million people living in this province, Han is over 50%, Uyghur is about 35%, the left 15% are HUI, Kazakian, ..., only Uyghur looking for separating from China, and definately not all Uyghur support the separatism, I don't think over 10% of East Turkestan people support any separatism. Even the 10% supporting separatism, are muslin, I don't think they will support Indian troop, you know Taliban, so you understand what i mean.

I don't feel obligated to tow the line of PRC or CCP regarding the nomenclature of East Turkestan and you must excuse me for that. The 50% Han are immigrants and need to pack up a head back to wherever they came from. Their opinion does not matter as far as the aspirations of East Turkestan is concerned.

Tibet, you can not just listen what Dalai Lama said, because Dailai and his fellowers (about 100,000) are top 5% tibetan rulers, like landlord, Lama, etc. They owned 90% tibetan land, the left 95% tibetan are serf, the Dalai Lama's tibetan is more like medieval time, of course, Dalai Lama won't tell you that, his kingdom is heaven, but that's not for all Tibetan. If you think all tibetan will like Dalai Lama support Indian troop, that's a big mistake. As I know, PLA can beat Indian army in 1962, the tibetan civilian support is one important reason, even 8 year old tibetan boy following his parents carried canned food and artillery shells to support PLA, they are all volunteer, nobody got pay to do that. Tibetan, even Dalai Lama knows China is the only country can offer tibetan metarial life, for sure, India can not pay that, Dalai and his fellowers screaming, but I really doubt they will really support Indian to take Tibetan.

Serious talk, want to hear your opinion

A very close relative, along with his friends, recently returned from Kailash-Manosarovar Trip. I even have a small bottle filled with water from Manosarovar in my book-shelf which was given to me by one of these travellers. I trust them more than you and your assessment of Tibet.

Tibetans hate Hans. They don't want to have anything to do with PRC. India has no intention to annex Tibet.

 

[houde10000]

Sorry, don't want to offend you but the Chinese military is 30 years behind the West in key technologies.

Mr. Armand2REP,

Believe what you believe, chinese army is shit, I am not their defender, I just war fan, want to see the result.

 

[Armand2REP]

East Turkestan is not world accepted name of chinese Xinjiang province, anyway, i will use your word. There are over 25 million people living in this province, Han is over 50%, Uyghur is about 35%, the left 15% are HUI, Kazakian, ..., only Uyghur looking for separating from China, and definately not all Uyghur support the separatism, I don't think over 10% of East Turkestan people support any separatism. Even the 10% supporting separatism, they are all extremism muslin, I don't think they will support Indian troop, you know Taliban, so you understand what i mean. Byway, I have to explain to you one important fact, there are a special Han farmers group "Nong Ken Jianshe Bingtuan", translate in English is "Land Reclamation Construction Corps", they are not minuteman, they are army, plus their family, over 2 million, the system can be tracked from 200BC, when Han people started to settle in this region. When you indian army plan to invade East Turkistan, don't forget to count them.

Since when did Hans take over 50%? if China wasn't worried about Uighur separatism they wouldn't have arrested over a thousand people and shut off the internet for the whole province. Seems they think the whole population is a threat if turn off everyone's internet for a year.

Tibet, you can not just listen what Dalai Lama said, because Dailai and his fellowers (about 100,000) are top 5% tibetan rulers, like landlord, Lama, etc. They owned 90% tibetan land, the left 95% tibetan are serf, the Dalai Lama's tibetan is more like medieval time, of course, Dalai Lama won't tell you that, his kingdom is heaven, but that's not for all Tibetan. If you think all tibetan will like Dalai Lama support Indian troop, that's a big mistake. As I know, PLA can beat Indian army in 1962, the tibetan civilian support is one important reason, even 8 year old tibetan boy following his parents carried canned food and artillery shells to support PLA, they are all volunteer, nobody got pay to do that. Tibetan, even Dalai Lama knows China is the only country can offer tibetan metarial life, for sure, India can not pay that, Dalai and his fellowers screaming, but they are not foolish, I doubt they really support Indian to take Tibetan.

Stop with the CCP history lesson. You will find once you crack open a book that isn't written by CCP, the history is very different. The Tibetans didn't want you there upon annexation and they don't want you there now. Don't believe... give them a referendum. lol

The modern war really burns money, most time you not really lose the war, just run out your money. If you recongnize indian millitary budget nowhere close to chinese budget, how can you indian army cross Himalaya Mountain to invade Tibet and East Turkistan? As I know chinese is taking a big geographical advantage, they stand on plateau, their tank and jet can easily attact Indian plain, they J10, Su27 just 400Km away from New Deli, 10 minute can drop bomb on your head, how do you defend that? Even indian army occupy Tibetan and East Turkistan, chinese still can gether their troop from chinese east inland to kick you out, correct me if i am wrong?

How could France defeat China 10,000km overseas? A mountain range is a far less obstacle. If you drop bombs on Indians they can drop bombs on you. The only advantage China has is infrastructure to move troops. India is building theirs and preposition greater force than China has on the border. Bomb here and a bomb there and Chinese transport grinds to a halt finding themselves overwhelmed. Don't even mess with Indian commandos, they will tear you up.

 

[houde10000]

The 50% Han are immigrants and need to pack up a head back to wherever they came from. Their opinion does not matter as far as the aspirations of East Turkestan is concerned.

Yes, Han are not native of East Turkistan, but they were born there generation by generation, they are living there from 2000 years ago, so where you want them packup to head back? Han people live there longer than any other residants including Uyghur, their opinion doesn't matter?! are you serious? I doubt you are really from demoncracy India.

A very close relative, along with his friends, recently returned from Kailash-Manosarovar Trip. I even have a small bottle filled with water from Manosarovar in my book-shelf which was given to me by one of these travellers. I trust them more than you and your assessment of Tibet.

Tibetans hate Hans. They don't want to have anything to do with PRC. India has no intention to annex Tibet.

Tibetan population is about 6 million, 2 million living in Tibet, the left 4 million living in Han's region, such as Sichuan, Qinghai, Gansu Province, Dalai Lama was born in Qinghai, a undoubted Han province governed by muslin general Ma. So when you talk that Tibetans hate Hans, I wonder which Tibetans? the 4 millions or the 2 millions, or the 100,000 Dalai Lama fellowers? I told you, you don't know tibet, because you can not even logically think.