Tajikistan gives land to China

Tshering22

Sikkimese Saber
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
7,869
Likes
23,213
Country flag
DUSHANBE, Tajikistan -- Tajikistan has agreed to give away a portion of its territory to neighboring China in a bid to put an end to a land dispute dating back more than a century.

Parliament voted Wednesday in favor of giving up around 1,000 square kilometers of land in the Central Asian nation's sparsely populated Pamir Mountains region. There was no immediate information on how many people live in the territory to be ceded.

Opposition leader Mukhiddin Kabiri said the land transfer is unconstitutional and represents a defeat for Tajik diplomacy. But Foreign Minister Khamrokon Zarifi portrayed it as a victory, saying China had initially claimed more than 11,000 square miles (28,000 square kilometers).

The dispute dates to the 19th Century, when Tajikistan was part of Czarist Russia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/12/AR2011011200961.html

_____________________________________________

Looks like China just got bigger.. while we are getting smaller since Prithviraj's defeat.
 

The Messiah

Bow Before Me!
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
10,809
Likes
4,619
and will continue to get smaller till we have spineless leaders looting the country.
 

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
Foreign Minister Khamrokon Zarifi portrayed it as a victory, saying China had initially claimed more than 11,000 square miles (28,000 square kilometers).
Let's try to be "objective".

During Czarist Russia era there was a border treaty btwn Russia Empire and Qing Dynasty by which 1/3 of today's Tajik was China's. But later Russia expanded eastward and annexed more. What happens now is a compromise - China gave up most of the claim based on Czar-Qing Treaty.

Both may say they suffer a "loss". But the upside of such a settlement ALL central Asian STANs and China can move ahead with no more "historical baggage" from now on.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Has China ratified this treaty? If CCP don't accept it means nothing.
 

JayATL

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
1,775
Likes
190
Let's try to be "objective".

During Czarist Russia era there was a border treaty btwn Russia Empire and Qing Dynasty by which 1/3 of today's Tajik was China's. But later Russia expanded eastward and annexed more. What happens now is a compromise - China gave up most of the claim based on Czar-Qing Treaty.

Both may say they suffer a "loss". But the upside of such a settlement ALL central Asian STANs and China can move ahead with no more "historical baggage" from now on.
we should go back to the 15th century , to draw borders perhaps then it will be satisfied..
 

Shaitan

Zandu Balm all day
Mod
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
4,654
Likes
8,363
Country flag
http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=18030

I posted this.

And the Qing dynasty was formed by foreigners that invaded China. These are Manchurians, northern tribes like the Mongols that invaded China, and created the Qing empire.

Why are they using this old empire, that was equivalent to Timurids to India to claim land? Its almost like India claiming Burma or something, because the British Raj had Burma a part of it.

Or am I getting this right, is the dispute 100s of years old?
 
Last edited:

civfanatic

Retired
Ambassador
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,562
Likes
2,570
http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=18030

I posted this.

And the Qing dynasty was formed by foreigners that invaded China. These are Manchurians, northern tribes like the Mongols that invaded China, and created the Qing empire.

Why are they using this old empire, that was equivalent to Timurids to India to claim land? Its almost like India claiming Burma or something, because the British Raj had Burma a part of it.

Or am I getting this right, is the dispute 100s of years old?
Techinally, the Chinese claim to Tibet goes back to Yuan era, and maybe even before. Some Tibetan princess married a Han guy or something like that. It's all a bunch of BS really.

The relationship between China and Tibet is similar to the relationship between ancient India and Afghanistan. It was within our cultural sphere, but the rulers were distinct from the "heartland" regions. In India's case, the heartland was Magadha and the Indo-Gangetic plain. In China's case, the Yellow River Valley.
 

Shaitan

Zandu Balm all day
Mod
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
4,654
Likes
8,363
Country flag
Techinally, the Chinese claim to Tibet goes back to Yuan era, and maybe even before. Some Tibetan princess married a Han guy or something like that. It's all a bunch of BS really.

The relationship between China and Tibet is similar to the relationship between ancient India and Afghanistan. It was within our cultural sphere, but the rulers were distinct from the "heartland" regions. In India's case, the heartland was Magadha and the Indo-Gangetic plain. In China's case, the Yellow River Valley.
Yuan dynasty is a Mongol dynasty....

Yuan and Qing empire are founded by northern nomadic tribes that invaded China, Manchus and Mongols. Know how ever these ethnic groups are apart of the modern China.

And Tibet wasn't the topic, its a part of China and frankly its staying with modern China for a while, because Chinas power is only going up. And Tibet I supposing is going to stay with China like Florida or Texas with USA, people will have to get used to that..
 
Last edited:

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
An interesting development.

What is the quid pro quo is what should be ascertained.
 

civfanatic

Retired
Ambassador
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,562
Likes
2,570
Yuan dynasty is a Mongol dynasty....

Yuan and Qing empire are founded by northern nomadic tribes that invaded China, Manchus and Mongols. Know how ever these ethnic groups are apart of the modern China.

And Tibet wasn't the topic, its a part of China and frankly its staying with modern China for a while, because Chinas power is only going up. And Tibet I supposing is going to stay with China like Florida or Texas with USA, people will have to get used to that..
Yes, I don't have a problem with China controlling Tibet. Quite frankly we can't do anything about it, nor is it in our interest to interfere in Chinese internal affairs. The problem is with China claiming Indian territory as their own for dubious, historical reasons.

Did you know that Bengal was part of the Tibetan Empire in the 9th century? Does that mean China should control Bengal as well?
 

The Messiah

Bow Before Me!
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
10,809
Likes
4,619
we should also start claiming lands based on history...but we can't even take back land that was occupied only 50 years ago.
 

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
Techinally, the Chinese claim to Tibet goes back to Yuan era, and maybe even before. Some Tibetan princess married a Han guy or something like that. It's all a bunch of BS really.
I don't know why u digress to Tibet from Tajik - distinctively two subjects

u are of course entitled to a totally different interpretation of the history. but be FACT based - it's not BS - for in Tang Dynasty there were royal inter-marriages btwn Tang and Tibet (7th Century). Since then the interactions in between got intensive. BTW Tang Royalty had Turkic blood while Turks/Uigur was very formidable in North China.
 

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
we should go back to the 15th century , to draw borders perhaps then it will be satisfied..
Czar-Qing had modern border treaties in 19th Century through which Qing (China) was gradually pushed out of Central Asia.

And the Qing dynasty was formed by foreigners that invaded China. These are Manchurians, northern tribes like the Mongols that invaded China, and created the Qing empire.
Explain to me if u Indians regard Barbur or Akbar or Aurangzeb as foreigners?
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
it is just a compromise between legitimate border treaties and reality.

Czarist Russia- Qing border treaty is a modern legitimate treaty and regulated that 1/3 of Tajic should belonged to CHina. However Czarist Russia/Soviet broke the treaty unilaterlly and occupied the disputed area for over 100 years.
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
Techinally, the Chinese claim to Tibet goes back to Yuan era, and maybe even before. Some Tibetan princess married a Han guy or something like that. It's all a bunch of BS really.

The relationship between China and Tibet is similar to the relationship between ancient India and Afghanistan. It was within our cultural sphere, but the rulers were distinct from the "heartland" regions. In India's case, the heartland was Magadha and the Indo-Gangetic plain. In China's case, the Yellow River Valley.
that is CCP's official stand.

IMO, it was during Qing dynastry that Tibet became one part of CHina. it is shorter than CCP's offical stand,but it is enough.
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
Has China ratified this treaty? If CCP don't accept it means nothing.
the treaty has been accepted by CHina and Tajic for long time. it is just recently that some west medias become so interested in it.
 

Shaitan

Zandu Balm all day
Mod
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
4,654
Likes
8,363
Country flag
Explain to me if u Indians regard Barbur or Akbar or Aurangzeb as foreigners?
They were until they inter mixed with Indian ethnic groups like the Rajputs. We dont like Aurangzeb, but he has Indian blood.
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
BTW, I think that the solve of Sino-Tajic border disputy should be a good example to the sovle of sino-India border disputy.

compromise should be there.


for example, Tawang is only less 10% of east section dispute area,but Tawang had been a part of Tibet for hundreds of years before Indian troops drove off Tibetan officials and local administrations there.

So, If Tawang could returned to Tibet, then CHina could acknowledge that the rest 90% of east disput areas belong to India.
 
Last edited:

Shaitan

Zandu Balm all day
Mod
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
4,654
Likes
8,363
Country flag
BTW, I think that the solve of Sino-Tajic border disputy should be a good example to the sovle of sino-India border disputy.

compromise should be there.
What India give some land, you have to be out of your mind. It will never happened. We will if you give back inner Mongolia to Mongolia or something. There deal?


for example, Tawang is only less 10% of east section dispute area,but Tawang had been a part of Tibet for hundreds of years before Indian troops drove off Tibetan officials and local administrations there.
Thats the biggest dispute India has with China.
 
Last edited:

civfanatic

Retired
Ambassador
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,562
Likes
2,570
BTW, I think that the solve of Sino-Tajic border disputy should be a good example to the sovle of sino-India border disputy.

compromise should be there.
for example, Tawang is only less 10% of east section dispute area,but Tawang had been a part of Tibet for hundreds of years before Indian troops drove off Tibetan officials and local administrations there.
I will be fine with India recognizing Aksai Chin as part of China in exchange for China recognizing Arunachal Pradesh as part of India.
I know there a lot of "patriots" on this forum who want to get back Aksai Chin, but that is simply not going to happen and we should deal with it. No humans have ever lived in Aksai Chin.

These border disputes between India and China are a big headache. The sooner we solve them the better.

I don't know why u digress to Tibet from Tajik - distinctively two subjects
I apologize for digressing, I forgot the topic was Tajiks and not Tibet.
 
Last edited:

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top