Surgical strikes: Ignore Pak claims, but Indians deserve to know the truth

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Zarvan, Oct 10, 2016.

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  1. Zarvan

    Zarvan Regular Member

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    Arya Sharma/Catch News

    India may be compelled to provide the evidence it has of the 'surgical strikes' it claims it conducted across the Line of Control (LoC) to destroy terrorist launch pads in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK).

    There have been unconfirmed stories of how the Special Forces wore helmet cameras to capture the destruction they wrought on the enemy - almost following the script of Zero Dark Thirty. Home Minister Rajnath Singh has said "just wait and watch" when asked about the purported video evidence of the strikes across the LoC.

    Both Delhi Chief Minister Arvind Kejriwal as well as the Congress party have asked the government to "call Pakistan's bluff" by making public the evidence of the 'surgical strikes'. The BJP retaliated by accusing the Opposition of questioning the army's competence.

    No-holds-barred: BJP-Congress slugfest over 'surgical strikes' escalates
    One possible explanation why such evidence has not been made public up to now could be that India does not want to escalate the tensions with Pakistan any further. However, that has not stopped Pakistan from ridiculing the Indian claims.

    It is no surprise that the credibility of the Indian claims has come under question from the Pakistani media - which may be suffering from the same jingoistic adrenaline high as the Indian media. However, it is also being questioned now by the international media.

    This could well be because on last Saturday, Pakistan Army took a group of international journalists to the area where the Indian Army supposedly conducted the surgical raids. It tried to debunk the Indian claims.

    PAKISTAN QUESTIONS INDIA'S CLAIMS

    The Director General of Inter-Services Public Relations, Lt. General Asim Bajwa questioned Indian claims by asking, "Where did all the dead bodies go? Where were the funerals? Why haven't the Indians produced any dead bodies if they took them back? Where is the damage?"

    Maj. Gen. Muhammad Chiragh Haider, the commander of the 23rd Infantry Division of the Pakistan Army posted in PoK across the LoC from India expressed surprise at the Indian claims saying they were totally incomprehensible. He wondered how was it possible that "a surgical strike took place against us, and we were not even aware of it?"

    International media while admitting that the claims of the Pakistan Army Generals who were chaperoning them were difficult to verify, nonetheless interviewed local residents independently. They also seemed incredulous about the Indian claims.


    Thus, Agence France Presse reported, "It was not possible to verify the General's claims, though villagers who spoke with a second AFP reporter in the area independent of the military-guided trip were also incredulous."

    In an independent dispatch, the BBC reported: "In the Bhimber, Leepa and Neelum valley regions, several eyewitnesses reported cross-border shelling - but, crucially, none said they saw any aerial or ground incursions by Indian troops."




    "International media entities such as BBC and Washington posts have questioned India's claims"
    The Washington Post has also questioned India's claims of surgical strikes after visiting the areas where they were supposed to have been conducted. The New York Times was more circumspect. Quoting an Associated Press report it asked: "Who is telling the truth? No outsider knows for sure. ... Access to the area is restricted on both sides. Officials in both countries are leaking select details to reporters, while announcing almost nothing openly."

    Pakistani strategic analyst Ayesha Siddqa admits to a limited operation. Writing in The Wire, she says:

    "Contrary to the impression created by India's DGMO, the operation across the border was limited in scale and less gargantuan than claimed.


    "Reportedly, Indian troops crossed over not more than 200 meters inside the Pakistani side of the Line of Control to attack an LeT camp located some 100 metres away from an army check post at Dudhnial. The fact that it was a limited scale operation made it possible for Pakistan to couch this as nothing more than firing and a border violation. While it attained some goals in the form of killing 5-6 militants, the use of the term 'surgical strike' was misleading. Perhaps, a better term was a 'targeted' operation in which the risk of further escalation was avoided by not killing military personnel at the nearby check post. Reports indicate that only 3-4 army personnel were injured due to the use of grenades against the post."

    The Narendra Modi government needs to debunk these claims alleging that either the operation did not take place or if it did, it was limited to a single strike across the LoC. It should not let its credibility be eroded by such allegations.

    PARTS THAT DON'T ADD UP

    With nationalist fervor at its pitch in the media and elsewhere in India, it is impossible to question the claims of the surgical strikes by the government without being branded anti-national.

    However, some questions are being raised within the security community in India and they are worth pondering over. Naturally, no one wants to come on record and identify themselves. Some of these questions are being raised in closed social media groups comprising defence experts.

    Here are the uncomfortable issues they have raised:


    • The government has claimed that Indian Special Forces carried out strikes 500 metres to 2 kilometres inside PoK. Experts claim that Pakistan's Forward Defended Localities (FDLs) are situated inside the PoK at an average distance of 1 to 2 km from the LoC. Under these circumstances, they ask, "How is it possible for camps to exist in the line of Pak FDLs or in front of them?"

    • They also point out that both Pakistan and Indian FDLs are mined and heavily guarded. "How did our commandos manage to go inside and bypass Pak FDLs to strike for three hours and return without being challenged or fired at? Moreover, how come choppers hovered in the vicinity of Pak FDLs without being fired at? Not even a single FDL retaliated? Not even a single mine exploded ?" they ask. (Actually, the army claims that one Indian soldier was injured in a mine explosion).



    "How can heavily armed terrorists be killed without any retaliation? In all 7 camps?"
    • Further, they point out that the FDLs are on hill tops and there are deep forested gorges embracing the hills and ask, "How come paratroopers land in deep and densely forested gorges so smoothly?"

    • The claim that the terrorists were caught unawares is also being questioned: "How come heavily armed terrorists were killed in all camps without any retaliation? Were they drugged and asleep? Didn't they hear the choppers ? Were they sleeping without sentries? In all the seven camps?"

    • These skeptics point out that the Indian Army often takes hours or even days to kill three or four terrorists inside India and that too in broad daylight with Rocket Launchers (RLs), Automatic Grenade Launchers (AGLs), Light Machine Guns, (LMGs), etc at their disposal and with a huge manpower component. If the area happens to be forested, the army operation against terrorists can days and in each operation there are soldiers who suffer injuries and there are casualties


    • In Pathankot, the Indian security forces took four days to kill the terrorists inside the enclosed campus of the Air Force station and till today there is confusion about the exact number of terrorists involved in that attack.

    • If this is how operations have been carried out in the past, they ask, "Then how come our Special Forces did everything perfectly in the middle of the night, killed all, destroyed (terrorist) camps and counted the bodies, separated Pakistani Army bodies (from that of the terrorists), counted them separately, made videos and came back without a scratch on their bodies within four hours?"

    • They point out that at night a fully loaded infantry can walk only a kilometer-plus in mountainous terrain. Not in this case of 'surgical strikes' though.



    "Army ops against terrorists in India often last 3-4 days. How could this be accomplished in 4 hours?"
    • In this case, how is it that "the Special Forces personnel, fully armed with bullet-proof jackets moved tactically - that is crawled, took cover, and while maintaining radio silence managed to locate (terrorist) camps, cleared minefields, walked uphill in those heights in oxygen-deficient conditions and still managed a perfect 10 and came back within four hours?"

    • Also, they ask, how is it that perfect intelligence inputs were available this time around for more than half a dozen terrorist camps and the movement of terrorist and not earlier? If such detailed information about the movement of terrorists across the LoC had been available earlier, then the attack on the army camp in Uri could have been prevented.

    • Questioning the claims being made, they ask: "For so many years launch pads are (being) used by terrorists supported by the Pakistan Army in PoK. If our Army had pin point info (sic), why didn't we act earlier? Why (did) Uri happen?"

    The government has claimed that it has evidence of the military operations carried out across the LoC in the wake of the terrorist attack in Uri. It must now present credible evidence of the operations publicly so that neither the international media nor skeptics within the Indian strategic community question the credibility of its claims. As for Pakistani claims, they can be ignored.

    http://www.catchnews.com/india-news...ve-to-know-the-truth-1475587137.html/fullview

    For those Indians who are not to dumb to blindly believe what their Army under Modi is trying to sell them
     
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  3. Prasanna kumar

    Prasanna kumar India is my Identity

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    Thanks but no thanks. We are happy with what we are being sold. Don't need a Paki to suggest.

    Sent from my Redmi 3S using Tapatalk
     
    Prashant12 likes this.
  4. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    2 minutes of my life I am never getting back after trying to read the drivel..thankfully I gave up half way..

    The claims are so farcical that I am torn between :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    and

    :yawn:

    @Mods, @LETHALFORCE @pmaitra @tarunraju @Sakal Gharelu Ustad and others

    First of all let me point out that I really admire you for doing your thankless jobs admirably. But if I could make a wee suggestion without stepping out of line, perhaps a relook at posting and thread starting privileges is in order (please feel free to revoke any of mine if you feel I am being too sassy).

    It's annoying and tiresome to see section after section of these fora being pissed upon and stank by the usual suspects.
     
  5. raheel besharam

    raheel besharam Regular Member

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    Perhaps he dont know that 2 of our soldiers were injured in a mine blast while doing surgical strikes

    Also how come on the day of surgical strikes we managed to kill 2 paki soldiers and injuring 10 others (official claims by napak fauj) while after that we increased our fire power and none of pork soldiers got killed, why on that particular day such high figures? according to pak ,, India has been violating ceasefire and on wednesday there were 25000 rounds of fire from our side.
     
  6. Abhinav Dharma

    Abhinav Dharma Regular Member

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    why would we trust that news do they support their news with relevant sources huh.........................................................
     
  7. PD_Solo

    PD_Solo The only one

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    Madarssa/Army cannot provide too many good paying jobs.So unemployment takes a toll and many end up in propaganda bashing business.
     
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  8. IndianHawk

    IndianHawk Regular Member

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    We should have a consistent policy towards Pakistan . Every few months we should kill some PA regulars and few cross loc operations and then we should neglect them. And then repeat.........
     
  9. Abhinav Dharma

    Abhinav Dharma Regular Member

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    kisi bhi news ke chutiye ko pakad lete hai aur halla gulla machha te hai lol :biggrin2::biggrin2::bs:catch news ka naam kisi ne suna bhi nayi
     
  10. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Salmalikum Zarvan. Kya rakha hai surgical strike mey. Tell me more about this "Eid" dress :lol:


    zar.JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
  11. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    You gave up half way? I did that after the fourth sentence!!

    And it says: "International media entities such as BBC and Washington posts have questioned India's claims."

    BBC and Washington post? :doh: Ok. Nuff said!
     
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  12. WARREN SS

    WARREN SS Regular Member

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    Ohh my god author is to dumb to understand basic unconventional ops

    Well expect from Indian media
     
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  13. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    When Pakistanis bring some unknown sources and post articles I think I need to verify 10 times the source before reading it.

    This guy is asking actual operation details which no Govt. Discloses!
     
  14. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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  15. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Thread closed. Troll thread.

    @Zarvan and other Paki ghazis, you will be booted out for unnecessary trolling.

    Please tag us instead of feeding the trolls. Thanks for keeping us posted. I usually respond if tagged.
     
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