Supreme Court has not declared fatwas illegal

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by Ray, Jul 18, 2014.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    This (the quote below) maybe the legal interpretation on the Sharia, but the intent is fraudulent

    More than any law in the world, social ostracisation is the biggest fear of all individuals.

    If Allah knows better, then it is best left to Allah.

    Islam is a contract between the Person and Allah and the good thing about Islam is that their is no intermediation between God and the Person!

    It is a One to One equation.

    That is all very fine to espouse and soft soap the issue, but the reality is that there are many fatwas that contravenes the basic human rights guaranteed by the Law and the Constitution as was the case of Shah Bano and the foolish and most idiotic fatwa which declared the father in law who raped his daughter in law as the new husband! Or the case when a man in a drunken stupor pronounced talaq three times and then wanted to recant, but could not unless his wife married another and cohabited and then divorced so that the drunk could remarry his wife.

    Another stupid argument.

    it was successful because none dared to challenge lest one was socially ostracised and religious rites denied. Everyone loves his religion and so are forced to take a whole lot of nonsense that is heaped. It in no way indicates success. It only indicated success in duress and religious blackmail.



    It is not only that the Personal laws of Muslims that require a relook, but also the laws of each religious entity. All are flawed and all are not in sych with the contemporary environment.
     
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  3. Pulkit

    Pulkit Satyameva Jayate "Truth Alone Triumphs" Senior Member

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    It cannot be made illegal as we do have right to religion ....
    The only thing said is that its implementation cannot be forceful ...
    Which means any individual can deny the decision taken with respect to that fatwa and even approach court it imposed against his/her will...

    We have IPC in our country and thus FATWA cannot be implemented forcefully....
     
  4. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    Imho fatwa should apply to muslims only; non muslims should not be exposed to sharia law.
     
  5. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    That should be done in Pakistan where the Shariah applies to all, irrespective of religion.

    India is a secular country.

    And it is silly to have laws that are religion centric.
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Thats OK.

    But what about social ostracisation if you do not follow the fatwa or the salisa courts of Bengal or the Khaps of Haryana.

    Can you thereafter live in the village?

    People have been killed and the Govt could not protect.

    who will take a chance and hope that if one defies they will be protected by the Govt?
     
  7. Pulkit

    Pulkit Satyameva Jayate "Truth Alone Triumphs" Senior Member

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    Religion cannot be part of Law making body here in India...
    In India Indians are bound by Inidan Laws only.....

     
  8. Pulkit

    Pulkit Satyameva Jayate "Truth Alone Triumphs" Senior Member

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    Sir I am quite familiar with the situation you are referring to ...
    Honestly 10 years back it was not possible but today yes it is...
    I have seen these panchayats .... I know what they do and how they do...I have seen them changing decisions even taking them back...

    Hukka paani band... Koi inse baat ni karega..etc etc are past today people also prefer going to courts than going to such org..
    You said Haryana...In haryana earlier if a guy marries a girl of same village tehy were killed... now they are banished..Its notcorrect but they are getting liberal...



    Teher are courts to protect righst of such people...

     
  9. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    Fatwa should be applicable to only those persons who want to obey it. There are none in India who has the executive power to implement the fatwa on somebody or a on a group except the Govt. who obviously don't take cognizance of it.

    So, if Fatwa is externally non-enforceable, then best it serves as a advisory only for those who wishes to follow by it.

    If some group tries to implement Fatwa, then they will be classified as a vigilante group, whose legal status will probably be deemed outlawed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
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  10. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    I am a Pakistani and a proud one too but here I am a DFI'an contributing to a debate so kindly don't drag Pakistan into this, its annoying and often triggers trolls to derail the thread.

    I am not challenging that India is not secular but the fatwa exist under the sharia law and you haven't banned it, you can't ban it without bypassin the constitution.

    I am not a fan of sharia law but then again who am I? For a large section of muslims sharia and fatwas are
    important in religious and social matters, specially disputes hence they look for guidence to the clerics.

    In this light I think sharia and fatwa should be allowed and respected but within the Muslim community only.
     
  11. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    There are some cases where a muslim will favor the s a fatwa through shariah more than what the state says in order to have a clear conscience.

    An interrsting scenario from a Pakistani drama I watched recently:

    A middle class man leaves his wife and two kids behind in Karachi to try his luck in Europe. Little does he know that the agent is fake. He enters Greece illegaly through sea and gets shot in the gun fire with the coast guard. He gets severly wounded but survives and lands in hospital where he remains in coma for almost two years. Pakistani embassy declares him dead as his passport and belongings are found floating in the sea.
    Back home his wife is married off to some old rich
    widower.
    Two years later the man gains consciousness and returns, only to find out that his wife has remarried.
    He claims his wife and kids in.court as she is still under his nikah and a second nikah for a muslim woman is considered haram in islam.

    This is a specific case for the sharia and fatwa as the decision of local court may not be in line with the believes and religious sentiment of all parties concerned.
     
  12. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    Marriages in India comes under Muslim personal law board, which has legal sanctity and their ruling has legal validity though either part can contest that in court, wherein courts will look into it.
    No self styled cleric has the right to issue fatwa or hold a Sharia court on matters which falls under ambit of Muslim personal law board.

    In India missing person can't be declared dead before 7 years if body is not recovered and identified. The story you are writing is not unique and has been covered in judgements in the past also.

    But, whether those incidents/cases should only be considered only through the lenses of the religion is a raging debate in India. Because religion has been historically unjust to woman. Thus completely relying on religion is an obstacle in the path of emancipation in India.

    Let me modify the story a little for you.

    Let the man goes incognito in a foreign country, marries a local girl and settles there. And after waiting of say 7 years ( or the number of years legally valid) the first wife in the country re-marries.

    One sudden day he comes back and claims as the talak has not taken place so, the first wife is still his legally wedded wife, and her second marriage be annulled irrespective of the fact that he has not catered for his conjugal duties towards his first wife. How about that for a change?

    What will be the Sharia interpretation?
     
  13. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    I have not studied the shariah law but I do agree that it does not always favor women.
     
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  14. Pulkit

    Pulkit Satyameva Jayate "Truth Alone Triumphs" Senior Member

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    @Neo i think the case has been very clearly explained.... @ladder if a man goes missing I believe even I am not aware of but the women can file a divorce and remarry and she need not wait for 7 long years (still i m lookin for exact law on it)... and it is surely independent of religion...

    We have IPC we need UCL....for these cases only....

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  15. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    I was talking about the below

    United vs Kadar on 16 July, 2010

    But, about re-marriage of a wife of missing person I have to check too. I am not sure.

    Divorce under desertion

    http://indiankanoon.org/docfragment/179559270/?formInput=divorcing missing person
     
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  16. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    Lol....I already feel like a law student. :lol:
     
  17. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    :rofl: I was about to quote you from " Mulla's Principles of Mohammedan Law" about special cases of divorce. Specially one where a Qazi can act as husband's deputy and can pronounce 'Talak' for him in his absence even without his consent.

    It could have been important in the story you wrote here.

    But it seems you are saturated. :namaste:
     
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  18. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    In my case the drama ended in a typical Pakistani way: according to the fatwa she had to return to her first husband since 18 months had not passed but eventhough she loved her first husband very much she was morally obliged to choose for the second because he had saved her life and was there for her when all the doors had closed.

    The typical Pakistani end came when the second husband dies in his sleep, he was ill and the enforcement of the fatwa could be avoided. She returns to her first husband. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
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  19. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Sure be a proud Pakistani.

    Debate if you wish.

    However, when you write

    . you are commenting about Muslims.

    What do you mean that it should apply to Muslims and not non Muslim?

    Is that obvious?

    It is like saying that the Sun is the Sun and we cannot apply it to call the Moon.

    It is in Pakistan where the Sharia is applied on non Muslims. It cannot be done in a secular country. That is the point.
     
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  20. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    Since the sharia or fatwa can not be ignored or banned in India, this is the only pragmatic solution to keep everyone happy.
     
  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    If you feel that - Honestly 10 years back it was not possible but today yes it is, then it indicates you are not reading the newspapers and keeping abreast of the times.

    What is happening in Haryana when couples marry out of caste? Google and see.

    Here is an article dated | Jan 23, 2014
    .
     

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