Superiority of American weapons and tactics

average american

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asianobserve

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Re: INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

@ average american,


I'm sorry to tell you this but you're not doing a good job at promoting American weapons. You seem to be constantly nagging about how better American weapons are. There are more subtle ways of doing it...
 

pmaitra

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Re: INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

@ average american,


I'm sorry to tell you this but you're not doing a good job at promoting American weapons. You seem to be constantly nagging about how better American weapons are. There are more subtle ways of doing it...
Average American,

Yeah, learn it from AsianObserver. See how he argued his case here: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...mil-mi-26t2-halo-vs-boeing-ch47f-chinook.html

:D

Jokes apart, I am interested to know about modern US Aircraft Carriers. Please do open a thread dedicated to that, if you will. Let's keep this one for Gorshkov, and the other one for any ship you wish.
 

asianobserve

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Re: INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

Thanks LB, I don't know how to use that feature.
 

sayareakd

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Re: INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

Take a look at a modern aircraft carrier, especially the electronics. Yahoo! Video Detail for A Tour of the USS Ronald Reagan

Anatomy of a Supercarrier Part 2 - YouTube

You are looking at 30 year old electronics on the Vikramaditya.

The Ronald Reagan has false floor with about two feet underneath to make it easy to upgrade and reconfigure the carrier such as the installation of rail guns or lasers, EMP weapons.
Ave. American, yeah we are aware that space pen is high tech then Pencil used by Russians, but the fact of the matter is that we are using AC for long time therefore we know what is good for us. As far as US systems is concern, we are not interested in those for the reason, stupid clauses, reliability if supplies in war, inspections and non use of weapons for attack.
 

average american

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Re: INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

Ave. American, yeah we are aware that space pen is high tech then Pencil used by Russians, but the fact of the matter is that we are using AC for long time therefore we know what is good for us. As far as US systems is concern, we are not interested in those for the reason, stupid clauses, reliability if supplies in war, inspections and non use of weapons for attack.
Like a lot of things you think you know your wrong there was never any goverment involvment in a space pen. NASA Space Pen - Did NASA Spend Billions on a Zero-Gravity Space Pen? - Urban Legends
Kind of like Indians being 20 percent of NASA employees.
At the present time India is Russia cash cow to support Russian employment to make obsolete military equipment and serves as an junk yard for weapons like the Vikramaditya.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...son-space-center-nasa-scientist-indian-origin
 
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sayareakd

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Re: INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

Like a lot of things you think you know your wrong there was never any goverment involvment in a space pen. NASA Space Pen - Did NASA Spend Billions on a Zero-Gravity Space Pen? - Urban Legends
Kind of like Indians being 20 percent of NASA employees.
At the present time India is Russia cash cow to support Russian employment to make obsolete military equipment and serves as an junk yard for weapons like the Vikramaditya.
Actually we dont seems to mind that, things which Russia has provided us, were actually never supplied by USA despite the fact that we always pay top $$.

any way i too is not fan of Russians weapons or for that matter US weapons.
 

Damian

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Something that may or may not interest people in terms of materials technology. These are currently maturing solutions, but when they will be ready, we can have interesting breaktrough in different platforms as well as individual soldier survivability.

Fullerene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Aggregated diamond nanorod - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Especially ADNR is very interesting materials as being the hardest material known to humanity.

As we all known one of the most important aspects of materials used for ballistic protection is their hardness, the harder material is, the better it is... untill a point where too much hardness makes material brittle, ADNR solves this problem, because being in the same time incredibly hard, it is also flexible material, it is not brittle as diamonds or ceramics.

I found also one more interesting read.

Scientists working on carbon nanotube body armor

Researchers are working on a carbon nanotubes-based replacement for Kevlar:

The trait that makes carbon nanotubes so interesting for use in bulletproof vests is that the carbon nanotubes have excellent resistance to repeated ballistic impacts. In theory, that would mean that soldiers and police officers wouldn't need to replace body armor after taking hits and multiple hits in prolonged firefights would be more survivable than with current generation body armor.

Unlike Kevlar fibers that deform and loose effectiveness after struck, the carbon nanotube vest can withstand repeated impacts to the same spot without allowing the bullet to penetrate. The researchers say that body armor 600nm in thickness constructed form six sheets of the 100nm thick carbon nanotube yarns could bounce off a bullet with muzzle energy of 320 J.

That would be enough strength to stop low powered bullets fired from some handguns, but high velocity bullets fired from assault rifles carry much more muzzle energy than the current carbon nanotube fibers can withstand.

It is interesting. Of course the technology needs to mature, and further research is needed to develop armor versions against more capable weapons and ammunition, but everything is promising.

Another advantage of ultra hard materials based on carbon is that they are relatively light.

Of course in case of vehicles such composite armor would need to be still encased in vehicles steel structure cavities, but the weight reduction is more than possible + use of other solutions for weight reduction.

This means several things.

First armored vehicles and armor itself is not obsolete, in fact there will be more and more problems to defeat such armor.

Just imagine that we replace currently used composites with ADNR based ones, we will be actually abale to put composite armor all around vehicle, without making it too much heavy. Top attack weapons won't be a big concern anymore, vehicles sides and rear will gain improved protection, as well as it's frontal arc.

Not only this, but also other platforms than AFV's like tanks will benefit from it. Today the survivability of attack helicopters or fighter planes is low when they are hit by enemy projectiles or missiles, but with new lightweight materials stronger than the ones currently used, we can increase their survivability.

Of course there are other interesting developments currently slowly inducted for armor protection use, based on nanotechnology.

In Germany there was company known as IBD Deisenroth, currently Rhinemetall Chempro, they are manufacturing armor protection based on nanotechnology.
Rheinmetall Chempro GmbH - AMAP product family
Rheinmetall Chempro GmbH - AMAP-B
Rheinmetall Chempro GmbH - AMAP-SC

Advanced Modular Armor Protection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unfortunetly the old brochures are not avaiable anymore, but there was also a lot of interesting read there about the materials development.

Also Japanese claims that they are using nano-crystal steel in their newest Type 10 tank.

The US Army Future Combat Systems had a 20-29 tons heavy universal combat platform designated MGV (Manned Ground Vehicle), one of requirements was to provide platform with frontal protection against 45mm automatic cannons. For a platform with such weight and very thin armor, it could not be possible to achieve required protection levels without use of advanced armor solutions, and possible nanotechnology based materials.

So what we will gain here, thanks to these materials?

-Increased survivability trough improved armor protection.
-Reduced platform weight.
-Different platforms possible implementation.
-Other benefits.

The only problems that needs to be solved is how to manufacture ADNR's cheap, efficently, in form of armor plating, and in huge numbers. But when these problems will be solved, we can have real revolution in protection means.

Ah and there is also other benefit, currently used composite armors are divided in to two types, passive and reactive, passive type is using more efficnetly it's cavity space but is also less efficent against ammunition, while reactive type to work needs some space inside it's cavity, making it more effective against ammunition, but less efficently using space of it's cavity.

ADNR could have both, better efficency in using space, more efficent in projectile defeating, and it will be lighter.

The question is how many countries is investing in to nanotechnology applications in armor protection? I know USA is, there was a lot of talk about these materials in 1990's on different AUSA's. Germany is, Japan of course, thanks to Kunal Biswas I know that India is making some steps there, I know that in my country there are probably some very early conceptual works. France perhaps, UK?

Well probably all countries with advanced industrial and scientific base.

As a side note, with such armor technology, it can be interesting to actually see a ressurection of the Dreadnought/Battleship concept in Navies of the most advanced nations, or perhaps something similiar to Arsenal Ship concept from USA.
 

sayareakd

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@ AA can you point out any offensive equipment we have purchased from uncle.
They may have superior weapons, but clauses in buyer agreement will make them plain and stupid. Any self respecting army will avoid buying them. Some fools are present in our MOD. Lets see how this exprement works.
Btw US planes were kicked off because they were inferior to others.
 

Damian

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BTW. To that article about carbon nanotubes ballistic vest.

In article it is said that it is 600nm thick, which means the vest thickness is 0,0006mm, it is very impressive for such thin material to have such high protection characteristics.

Now imagine such armor layer that is 100mm thick, which means it will be 100,000,000nm thick.

Capabilities of these materials are just incredible.
 

average american

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@ AA can you point out any offensive equipment we have purchased from uncle.
They may have superior weapons, but clauses in buyer agreement will make them plain and stupid. Any self respecting army will avoid buying them. Some fools are present in our MOD. Lets see how this exprement works.
Btw US planes were kicked off because they were inferior to others.
A Dassault Rafale introduced in 2000 is going to be superior to F16 or F18 in 74 and 78 thats a given. Though I doubt its much better then the upgraded super hornet F18. But never the less India is never going get top of the line advanced US weapons if it does not agree to Logistics Sharing Agreement (LSA), Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-spatial Cooperation (BECA). Not to have those agreements and not to be sure India would follow them would compromise the safety of US troops and the USA.

Thats Indias decision, unless India does sign those agreements they will have a militry that can take on Pakistan because they have 5 time Pakistan resources, but they wont be able to take on China. Global Firepower - 2012 World Military Strength Ranking


For example without the CISMOA agreements the following will be left off the C-130Js and P-8.

* AN/ARC-222 Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio System (SINCGARS) - Manufacured by Magnovox and administered by the US Air Force

* KV-119 IFF Digital Transponder (Mode 4 Crypto Applique) - Manufactured by Raytheon and administered by the US Air Force

* TACTERM / ANDVT Secure Voice (HF) Terminal - Administered by the US Air Force

* VINSON KY-58 Secure Voice (UHF/VHF) Module - Administered by the US Air Force

* Finally, the Rockwell-Collins AN/ARC-210(V) SATCOM Transceiver's COMSEC/DAMA embdedded RT is replaced with an RT that has no COMSEC/SINCGARS

The USA is not going to invest billions in weapons research that India could simply turn around and sell to Russia or China.

and its just not the weapons above, its what the future holds, the US is increaseing its cooperation and compatibility and production of weapons with a number of countries, such as Israel, UK, Japan, S Korea, Neterlands, all involved in weapon research and production and India is seen as sideing with Russia and China the wests potential enemies because Russia supplies weapons to China. India is going to be left out,,,,already is a good example is the Fratricide in the red flag exercises where India kept shooting down its own planes.

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/20782.asp

India needs to ask itself, does it want to go it alone with just Russia that spends billion or so a year on weapons research and development or does it wont to join USA, UK Israel, NATO, Japan S Korea Australia thats spends more then a hundred of billion on weapon research and development. To take on China India is going to need to run with the big dogs, otherwise they have already given up.
 
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average american

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US prepares most advanced conventional weapon: Report

NEW YORK: The US is devising an advanced conventional weapon of new strength called 'Prompt Global Strike' which can reduce dependence on atomic weapons, as it aims to accomplish great tasks without crossing nuke threshold, a media report said.

President Barack Obama, in the coming years, will have to decide whether to deploy such weapons cutting the US reliance on nuclear weapons, the New York Times said in its report.

Concerns about the technology are so strong that the Obama administration has agreed to Russia's demand that the US decommission one nuclear missile for every one of these conventional weapons fielded by the Pentagon.

The Times describes that weapons as "designed to carry out tasks like picking off Osama bin Laden in a cave, if the right one could be found; taking out a North Korean missile while it is being rolled to the launch pad; or destroying an Iranian nuclear site -- all without crossing the nuclear threshold."

"In theory, the weapon will hurl a conventional warhead of enormous weight at high speed and with pinpoint accuracy, generating the localised destructive power of a nuclear warhead," it wrote.

In a previous interview with the daily, Obama alluded to the concept, saying it was part of an effort "to move towards less emphasis on nuclear weapons" while insuring that our conventional weapons capability is an effective deterrent in all but the most extreme circumstances.

The Obama national security team scrapped the idea of putting the new conventional weapon on submarines, the Times said.

"Instead, the White House has asked Congress for about USD 250 million next year to explore a new alternative, one that uses some of the most advanced technology in the military today as well as some not yet even invented."

Under the Obama plan, the Prompt Global Strike warhead would be mounted on a long-range missile to start its journey toward a target.

It would travel through the atmosphere at several times the speed of sound, generating so much heat that it would have to be shielded with special materials to avoid melting, according to the report.
US prepares most advanced conventional weapon: Report - Economic Times

That was over two years ago.
 

W.G.Ewald

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Has this thread actually addressed "superior American tactics" at some point?
 

p2prada

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A Dassault Rafale introduced in 2000 is going to be superior to F16 or F18 in 74 and 78 thats a given.
F-16 Block 60 first flew in 2003, introduced in 2004. The Super Hornet first flew in 1995, introduced in 1999. Rafale first flew in 1986, introduced in 2000.

I rest my case.
 

average american

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The best I can tell from a stratgy standpoint the US weapons are for air dominance, The PAK-FA, T50 represents more of an AWACS killer/carrier strike platform, vs. an air dominance machines...the problem there is the F22 and F35 have AWACS capability and the carriers are developing tremendous defensive weapons along with the Ageis systems.

Also the US is developing tactics useing the F22, F35, AWACS, dones and ground to air missiles. In 1970s, the AF rigged some existing fighters to be unmanned and then had them go up against manned fighters. It wasn't pretty. When you take the human out of the cockpit, it's amazing some of the maneuvers an aircraft is capable of, even an aircraft designed for humans. I expect the USA will have air to air combat drones in the early to late 2020s.
 
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