Super carrier: Britain's largest warships take shape

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by U Sun Dar, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. U Sun Dar

    U Sun Dar Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    39
    Location:
    Mumbai
    The first of the UK's two new aircraft carriers - The Queen Elizabeth - takes shape at Rosyth. The ship, which will have a displacement of 65,000 tons, is the largest warship ever to be built in the UK. She is so big that she is being built in blocks at dockyards around Britain and then assembled in dry dock in Rosyth. Two ships of the class are being built - the Queen Elizabeth and the Prince of Wales




    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2.  
  3. arunpat

    arunpat Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2011
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    100
    [​IMG]

    Queen Elizabeth Aircraft Carrier (R08&R09 QE-class battleships) - latest news and all about the “pride and joy” of the British Royal Navy.

    The Future Aircraft Carrier (CVF) is the largest of UK warships ever built for the Royal Navy. The Great Britain’s new class aircraft carrier will be generating enough energy to power 5500 households and will be 4 meters taller than the Niagara Falls. HMS QE aircraft carrier will be the UK’s Royal Navy fleet flagship (the UK’s main ship).

    HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier details/facts (Queen Elizabeth class battleships specifications and statistics)

    Country/Owner/Operator: UK
    Builders: BAE Systems Surface Ships, Thales Group, Babcock Marine (see below for more details).
    Cost to Build: £3,5 billion (US$5,520 billion), which is exactly £7 billion for the two carriers of the QE-class by the 2008 contract. And the money goes to (related to the construction of both ships): £1,325mill to BVT Surface Fleet (BAE and VT Group joint venture) for building the huge sections at Govan & Portsmouth, £300mill to BAE for the sections at Barrow-in-Furness, £675mill to Babcock Marine for the bow section/final assembly/completion at Rosyth, £425mill to Thales UK (design/engineering), £275mill to BAE (design & supply of Mission Systems (Insyte), additional contracts for the steel, diesel generators, aircraft lifts, key electronics.
    Jobs created: hull section (Portsmouth – 1200), hull sections (Govan/Clyde – 3000+), hull section (Barrow-in-Furness – 400+), BAE Systems Insyte (Frimley, Surrey – 145), Thales UK (Bristol & Crawley – 250), for the assembly of both ships (Rosyth – 1,600).
    Size Comparison: HMS Queen Elizabeth will be 3 times the size of the UK’s only one remaining carrier HMS Illustrious and will be 2nd only to the USA’s nuclear-powered Nimitz-class aircraft carriers.
    Ordered May 2008, contracts signed by the UK’s MOD and industry (Portsmouth, July 3, 2008), laid down July 2009, year of service: early 2017, fully operational by 2020 (with HMS Prince Of Wales 2 years behind.), expected service life of up to 50 years.
    Homeport: (Her Majesty’s Naval Base) HMNB Portsmouth, one of three UK operating bases for the Royal Navy (along with HMNB Clyde & HMNB Devonport).
    Capacity/Crew: 1450 (1600 company+aircrew), complement 686+.
    (Royal Navy) Ship Class: Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers (2 ships-in-class – sister ship HMS Prince of Wales (R09).
    IMO number: 4907892.
    Length overall 932 ft (284 m).
    Width/Beam: overall/flight deck 239,4 ft (73 m), waterline 128 ft (39 m).
    Height: 184 ft (56 m) overall/from keel to masthead.
    Draught/Draft: 36 ft (11 m).
    Deck area/facilities: 172,220 ft2 (or 16,000 m2, or by the words of one official “4 acres of sovereign territory” at sea), a huge hangar below deck (50,600 ft2 / 4,700 m2, volume 29000m3), flight deck (140,000 ft2 / 13,000 m2), 2 aircraft lifts (capable of 70t loads (two F-35′s), machine rooms, water-treatment equipment, ammunition storage space, a weapons handling bay, a room for the crew to play football (located in the passageways), accommodations for 1650, no catapults/arrestor wires.
    Weight/Displacement: 65,600 tonnes (64,600 long t) at deep/full load.
    Top Speed: 25 kn (29 mph or 46 km/h)
    Engines/Propulsion/Power Output: 109 MW (total), 2×120-tonne Rolls-Royce MT30 marine gas turbine engines (based on Rolls-Royce Trent 800 aero engine, which achieved a 44% share of Boeing’s 777 program) to provide the power for the 2 propellers, weapons, sensors, command systems, the lower voltage requirements of the ship’s company. The list of all engines/propulsion systems includes: CODLAG (combined Diesel-Electric & Gas Turbine propulsion), the two 36MW Rolls Royce turbines, two Wartsila 16V38 diesels (with 11,6MW generators), two MW Wartsila 12V38 diesels (with 8,7MW generators), one “Wartsila 200″ 2MW emergency diesel generator, two propeller shafts (each with two Alstom 15-phase electric motors (150 rpm), 80MW total power consumption, output – 95,000 SHP.
    Range: up to 10,000 nautical ml (19,000 km).
    HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier weapons/air arms

    armament
    Phalanx CIWS (a automated Close-In Weapon System, against anti-aircraft/anti-ship missiles), 6 barrels (caliber 20×102mm), fire rate 4,500 rounds/min (75 rounds/sec).
    30mm automated guns + miniguns for asymmetric threats.
    HMWHS (“Highly Mechanised Weapon Handling System”), about 6 times faster than any previous RN aircraft carrier, operated with only 50 people (could be operated with as few as 12), this system will move munitions on pallets by remotely controlled electric vehicles/lifts.
    (maximum) 40 Aircraft of the following types:
    Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II (stealth capability) - a single-seat, single-engine, 5th generation fighter for ground attacks, reconnaissance, air defence. Unit cost (in millions USD, data 2012): F-35A ($107 mill), F-35B ($238 mill), F-35C ($239 mill).
    Boeing CH-47 Chinook (a twin-engine transport helicopter), avrg unit cost (USD$35 million), top speed (196mph or 315km/h)
    AgustaWestland AW101 Apache/Merlin (a med-lift helicopter), unit cos (USD$21 million)
    AgustaWestland AW159 Wildcat (aka Future Lynx, Lynx Wildcat) – a military helicopter (serving as utility, search and rescue, anti-surface warfare), to enter service with the British Army in 2014 and with the British Royal Navy in 2015.
    “Maritime Airborne Surveillance and Control” (MASC), formerly known as FOAEW (“Future Organic Airborne Early Warning System”), to provide air and surface surveillance (detecting threat aircraft, missiles, sea surface targets (Over-the-Horizon-Targeting), also for Tactical Control and Networking (to direct intercepts of fighter aircraft, airspace management, air traffic control), speed 174 mph (280 km/h), range 575 miles (925 km). Note: click on image to enlarge.
    QE UK future aircraft carrier technology

    The BAE Systems Insyte Artisan 3D Radar is the most sophisticated in the RN’s fleet (appr 5 times more efficient than any currently in service, range between 200m/656ft and 200km/124ml, its antenna weighs only about 700kg). It can identify a tennis ball sized target traveling at over 2000mph/3220kmh at distance greater than 16ml/26km away. It can track more than 900 targets simultaneously. It can operate in densely signal-populated environment and cut through interference equivalent of 10000 GSM signals directed its way.
    the Lower Block 02 is 66ft (20m) high and 230ft (70m) long. All the largest sections are built in Portsmouth.
    the QE 3 ship’s 2 propellers weighs 33t each (it’s 2 1/2 times heavier than a double-decker bus).
    the flight deck will be 919 ft (280 m) long and 243 ft (74 m) wide.
    both propellers together will generate 80 MW of power – enough to run 50 high speed trains.
    the QE3 ship will require 1,5 million m2 of paintwork.
    the ship’s main body is called “Super Block 03″.
    QE-class aircraft and the most powerful gas turbine in the world - Rolls-Royce MT30. Each of the ship’s 2 gas turbines (the MT30 model was firstly produced in 2002) generates 36 MW – enough to power a small town. The turbine was engineered to meet the needs of both naval ships and commercial marine vessels, the list of its naval applications includes frigates, destroyers, and of course – the aircraft carriers. The gas turbine main features are: compact size (15ft /4,5m in length), light weight (total module weight as a set 77t), great flexibility to the ship design process, ideal for new builds and fast turnaround maintenance programs, full authority digital control, fully integrated alarm, monitoring and control, it has its own integral fire protection system. In 2012 the Rolls-Royce company repackaged the MT30 turbine so that it would fit into smaller ships. The company will offer the MT30 engine to the Royal navy for the CODLOG system in the RN’s Type 26 frigates (their construction to start in 2015).
    the list of countries which currently have aircraft carriers includes USA, Russia, Brazil, India, France, Italy, Spain, China and even Thailand. The US has 11 of them and will have the 1st of its new Ford-class super-carriers by 2016. Just to be among the “aircraft carrier nations”, China has bought a former USSR vessel from Ukraine to refit and use it as a warship.
    R08-class ship comparison to the old designs: 2 islands on the flight deck rather than just 1 (1 forward for the ship’s navigation control/bridge and 1 aft for air-traffic control/flight operations), 2 heavy lifts to the ship’s side (to bring aircraft up from the hangar, while the older carriers had their lifts placed in the middle of the flight deck), a HMWHS (see armament below) to select and deliver ammunition from the 2 large magazines to aircraft in the hangar (saving on crew numbers).
    Concise review and links to the ship builders websites

    The Aircraft Carrier Alliance (ACA) has 4 members: 3 industrial (Babcock, BAE Systems, Thales UK) and the 4th is the UK’s Ministry of Defence (acting as both member and customer).
    Babcock (sites Appledore, Rosyth) is an UK based company with 4 main divisions – 3 of which for UK operations (Marine & Technology, Defence & Security, Support Services) and 1 International (for the Middle East/Africa). Its Marine division is the major support partner to the Royal Navy (with over 75% share in the annual ship maintenance/refit of the RN’s surface ships).
    BAE Systems (sites Glasgow, Portsmouth, Cammell Laird, Birkenhead) is a global corporation and a provider of defence and security products (cyber services, military support, mission critical electronic systems, protection equipment, and more), with way over 100,000 employees worldwide (the majority of them working in USA and UK). Reported sales of £22,4 bill (US$ 36,2 bill).
    Thales Group UK - a global leading company on the technology markets for Aerospace, Space, Defence, Security and Ground Transportation, with over 67,000 employees in 56 countries, global revenue £11,5 bill.
    Ministry of Defence (UK) - a ministerial department, supported by 30 agencies/public bodies, working on defence/armed forces, national security, foreign affairs.
    A&P Group (site Hebbum) – the UK’s largest ship repair/conversion company, with 3 huge shipyards (Hebburn, Middlesbrough, Falmouth).
    (soon to be added) our internal link to the new HMS Queen Elizabeth cruise ship (specs/stats/fun facts).
    HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier construction progress (2013 news)

    The newest Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier is being built in (or rather assembled from) 9 huge sections (construction work is done at 6 different shipbuilding yards around the UK – Rosyth, Portsmouth, Govan, Devon, Tyne and Wear, Birkenhead), then parts are transported onto sea-going barges to the Rosyth’s shipyard Babcock (dry-dock No1) to be welded together. Similar method is being used to build the newest largest cruise ships as well. Rosyth is located north of Edinburgh, it’s dry-dock 1 was specially-extended to fit the Royal Navy Future Aircraft Carrier (CVF) – the dock’s entrance was enlarged, dredging is also under way at Portsmouth (their home base) to make the existing channel deeper and wider.

    the first steel was cut in Feb 2010, QE is due to be launched 2014.
    (milestone) January 29, 2013 - the 1st of 2 giant gas turbine engines has been moved on to the ship – it’s simply the most powerful gas turbine installed on a ship ever.
    (milestone) February 7, 2013 - the HMS QE ship’s forward island bridge tower (fully fitted out&painted, weight 680 tonnes) left Portsmouth on a barge bound for Rosyth, Scotland (a 600-ml voyage). This section alone has 37ml/60km of cables and 3101 pipes inside, and it took 16 months to build.
    (April 15, 2013) Block SP08 aft lifted & fitted (Rosyth).
    note: click on the picture to enlarge, then Backspace(kbd) or back-button(browser) to return to article.
    Even nowadays, aircraft carriers remain the ultimate symbol of a nation’s naval power. By the words of Geoff Searle, the program director for the ACA, battleships like HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier “are a significant diplomatic tool – they can go anywhere and do anything” – one colossal mobile airfield that you can park anywhere. Visit us again soon for updates and the latest news on HMS QE aircraft carrier. I

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    HMS Queen Elizabeth Aircraft Carrier (R08)
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
    TrueSpirit1, U Sun Dar and sob like this.
  4. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    6,359
    Likes Received:
    3,661
    Location:
    New Delhi
    In 10 years they will have a completely brand new, mint condition Aircraft Carrier and the Russians have taken longer to refurbish an old carrier. It would have been better to have placed an order for a new AC to either the British or the French.
     
    lookieloo, Blackwater and U Sun Dar like this.
  5. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    5,894
    Likes Received:
    5,859
    Location:
    Kolkata
    Cost buddy, cost.

     
    nirranj and rvjpheonix like this.
  6. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    6,359
    Likes Received:
    3,661
    Location:
    New Delhi
    what about the cost of trying to prolong Viraat beyond service life and also the reality of being without a carrier on sea.

    We do not need such a huge carrier that the Brits are building. A smaller one would have suited our needs and would have been slightly cheaper. This has a dispacement of 65,600 Tonnes while our IAC will be 40,000 Tonns.
    As it is we are facing delays with the IAC.
     
  7. U Sun Dar

    U Sun Dar Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    39
    Location:
    Mumbai
    [​IMG]

    On India's decision to begin its second indigenous aircraft carrier to be called INS VISHAL (Massively Mighty) which would have displacement of massive 65,000 tons i.e. 25,000 tons heavier than the first indegenous carrier, the Vikrant.

    the Observers started questioning how wise it is on the Indian part to do so when India's first indigenous carrier is facing delays of more than two years because of the technical issues and India's quest to resurrect a Russian carrier that has been beset by yeas of delays and multi-millions in cost spending?

    Vishal will be operating larger fighter aircraft and would be featuring steam catapults, and carry an airborne early-warning (AEW) system and aerial refuelers. Vishal would also be the hanger for the naval versions of the Light Combat Aircraft, which is in development.

    The Vishal project is still in the design stage, which is being undertaken by the Navy’s Naval Design Bureau. India's decision to initiate the massive and costly project of such kind attracted many analysts with varied reaction of worth noting.

    India will need atleast three aircraft carriers but at the same time the Indian Navy needs to meet other priorities, including adding more warships and assets to its arsenal.

    The Vishal (Massively Mighty) demands a mighty cost of about 1.5 billion USD , according to Defence Ministry sources, where as the first indigenous carrier is being built at a cost of 750 million USD. During the Vikrant Project India hired Italy-based Fincantieri’s Naval Vessel Business Unit to help prepare the concept, design and implementation plans. But this time India is not seeking any any help for the Vishal. The navy might, however, would seek help from Russian Design Bureau at a later stage only to integrate the Russian aircraft onto Vishal.

    While Vishal’s design is not finalized, sources said the carrier was originally planned to be 44,000 tons in 2010 before that was changed to 65,000. Vishal would carry an array of more advance aircrafts like Russian Su-33 and MiG-35 and also the AEW aircrafts.

    India's quest to own aircraft carrier started with the 53 year old Virat purchased from the British Navy in 1987. Thereafter it was the 25 years old Vikramaditya capable of flying the MiG-29K aircraft, but would not fly any AEW aircraft.

    Meanwhile, The Vikrant, which is already delayed by two years, sadly faces yet another technical delay as the carrier builder Cochin Shipyard is facing difficulties with the main reduction gear box supplied by Gujarat-based Elecon Engineering, which in turn has joined with Renk AG of Germany to build the two main reduction gears for the carrier. Sources said that apart from delays in the delivery of the gear boxes, the boxes themselves — each weighing around 90 tons — have never been handled by Indian shipyards. Also the unfortunate accident with a Vikrant's diesel generator and an issue with its alignment has further created an impediment in the procurement of the much delayed Vikrant, two years later than planned which is now expected to be included in our Navy by 2017.

    I Dont think it will be Inducted before 2025...????:pop:

    Defence News - Another Aircraft Carrier In The Making : Is It A Wise Decision?
     
    TrueSpirit1 likes this.
  8. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,283
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Second carrier is not going to be made iirc. There were rumors about them offering to India. But that was about 2-3 years ago. British cut their allocation for defence and I doubt they will make the second carrier
     
  9. dhananjay1

    dhananjay1 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    972
    Likes Received:
    912
    Location:
    india
    What, they are going to bomb Scotland and Ireland? :rofl: How could they afford to waste money on an aircraft carrier that is unnecessary and expensive while singing austerity tunes.
     
    united THIEF kingdom likes this.
  10. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,233
    Likes Received:
    3,896
    Location:
    Holy Hell
  11. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,233
    Likes Received:
    3,896
    Location:
    Holy Hell
    Prince Charles 'saves Ark Royal’ - Telegraph

    Naming this carrier Ark Royal indicates that the second aircraft carrier will be built and inducted in 2018.

    Anyway construction of the second carrier started in 2011.

    The decision to keep it as a STOVL was also taken, which means they are quite serious about it. The media was told that the decision to operationally use the carrier will be taken in the 2015 strategic defence review. But it is most probably a ruse to keep the public guessing. The decision to use the carrier may already have been taken and they may merely announce it in 2015.

    OTOH, the French have not yet decided on building a second carrier.
     
    TrueSpirit1 likes this.
  12. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    6,359
    Likes Received:
    3,661
    Location:
    New Delhi
    If the British want an equal partnership with their cousins across the pond then they will have to bolster their forces. The defence cuts in the British Army is putting a strain on the American fighting machine. already in Afghanistan we have seen that the Americans had to step in after the British Army could not handle their area of operation.

    There have been very clear signals from the americans that they would like to see the British beef up their capabilities if they wanted to continue their special relationship.

    These 2 ACs will definitely help the British to project power across the oceans.
     
    TrueSpirit1 likes this.
  13. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,233
    Likes Received:
    3,896
    Location:
    Holy Hell
    Eventually they will want a more powerful ally. They know Europe can no longer provide the military capability as they did in the past.

    The Russians are improving every year. The Chinese are improving every month.
     
    nirranj likes this.
  14. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    6,359
    Likes Received:
    3,661
    Location:
    New Delhi
    That leads us to the question where do we see ourselves with the Americans 10 years down the line. As far as I see India is the only natural ally for the US, but do we see it that way. Can we remove decades of Non alignment blinkers from our eyes and see the advantages of such an alliance/partnership which has mutual benefits and is not a one way street.
     
    TrueSpirit1 likes this.
  15. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Long walk Elite Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    5,654
    Likes Received:
    3,032
    Location:
    Inside a Cage
    Aircraft carrier costs 'to top £6bn'




    The price tag for the navy's new aircraft carriers is expected to top more than £6bn as the government prepares to announce further cost overruns, according to reports.

    The defence secretary, Philip Hammond, is expected to announce that the projected cost of the two carriers – which will not enter service until the end of the decade – has risen by a further £800m to £6.2bn, the Financial Times reports.

    The latest increase means the bill for the 65,000-tonne ships will be almost double the £3.5bn estimated when the project was agreed by the Labour government in 2007.

    Hammond is expected to attempt to deflect concerns about the rising costs by announcing that he has renegotiated the project to build the carriers on terms more favourable to the taxpayer.

    According to the Financial Times, he is expected to say that further cost overruns beyond the new £6.2bn baseline will be split 50-50 between the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and the contractors – whereas previously they had fallen mainly on the government.

    An MoD spokesman said: "Negotiations between the MoD and the Aircraft Carrier Alliance regarding the re-baselining of the Queen Elizabeth Carrier Programme are at an advanced stage.

    "No final decisions have been taken and the department will make an announcement in due course."

    The cost increase is the latest setback for the troubled carrier programme. The coalition announced in the 2010 strategic defence and security review that it intended to switch from the jump-jet version of the US-built joint strike fighter planned under Labour to the more capable carrier variant.

    However, the government was forced to carry out an embarrassing U-turn after it emerged that the cost of fitting the necessary catapults and arrestor gear – the so-called cats and traps – would be prohibitively expensive.

    Vernon Coaker, Labour's shadow defence secretary, is likely to question Hammond about the costs during a session in the House of Commons later on Monday.

    "This is the latest in a series of financial fiascos in the MoD under David Cameron," he said.

    "The government needs to come clean about the cost of the aircraft carrier programme and explain what has caused an increase that leaves the total projected cost at £6.2bn, almost double what was originally envisaged.

    "The defence secretary's claim that he has balanced the MoD books looks increasingly nonsensical."

    Aircraft carrier costs 'to top £6bn' | Politics | theguardian.com
     
    hello_10 likes this.
  16. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    6,359
    Likes Received:
    3,661
    Location:
    New Delhi
    Compared to this 3.2 billion pounds around us 5 billion dollars how does our Russian carrier compare. Any comparative figures available

    Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk
     
  17. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,233
    Likes Received:
    3,896
    Location:
    Holy Hell
    The Elizabeth's cost is 6.5 Billion pounds or US$10.45 Billion, not 5.

    The air complement is superior to Gorky. Gorky is expected to carry 30 aircraft versus Elizabeth's 40.

    Missions parameters will change based on complement. Eli can be equipped with 12 F-35s, 24 F-35s or 36 F-35s and the rest with helicopters depending on how they want to play it out.

    Gorky should be able to do something similar. 16 Mig-29Ks or higher depending on the mission, the rest being helicopters.

    Both should be able to carry more aircraft during wartime. Eli should be able to carry larger and heavier aircraft.
     
    SajeevJino likes this.
  18. lookieloo

    lookieloo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    248
    Location:
    US
    £6.2bn ($9.9bn) for two supercarriers of a new class... vs the $14bn were spending on one of a new class. Stuff your bitching England. :rolleyes:
     
    pmaitra likes this.
  19. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    6,359
    Likes Received:
    3,661
    Location:
    New Delhi
    @p2prada, the cost of 6 Billion is for two ACs not one

    The biggest difference in my opinion will be in the service life of the two comparative carriers.

    Based on Todays rates US Pound 6.2 Billion works out ot be around US $ 8.4 Billion. ( Just nitpicking these carriers will touch the US 10$ Billion figure before they are commissioned)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    p2prada likes this.
  20. lookieloo

    lookieloo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    248
    Location:
    US
    Try Googling "£6.2."
     
  21. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,397
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    $5 billion for one of those when you can get this doing the same thing for 2...

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    hello_10 and TrueSpirit1 like this.

Share This Page