Sukhoi PAK FA

gadeshi

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
9,223
Likes
6,636
Niobium Nitride is a superconductors, to use it in ROFAR radar you need to cool it upto - 257 degree Celsius. And then make sure it doesn't heat up again otherwise you will have a radar which is non functional after a little time of operations.
Yes, but:
1 - Superconductivity is not required in this case;
2 - It can be turned into high temperature superconductor by including special compounds into it.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Egypt has ordered MiG-29M/M2 with Zhuk-ME from the beginning.
Russians have mastered GaAs tech since 1982 for Zaslon PESA radar for MiG-31. It was world's first GaAs based radar. It was distant past.
N036 Belka GaN DAESA radar for T-50 is completely ready and is in serial prodiction from late 2015 on GRPZ (Ryazan).
There are plenty of GaAs AESAs for ships, AD and land forces for several years.
Now NIIP concentrates on Niobium Nitride based TRMs for ROFAR.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk
It is so funny that you mention that considering India is the place to dispel your myths. India tested Russia's AESA tech and it couldn't even target commercial airliners at 100km much less do multi-mode. Egypt ordered MiG-35 but Russia couldn't deliver, so they offered them twice the number of MiG-29M2 for the same price. I think you are confused over the implementation of the technology, Russia does not have an in-service example much less a flying GaN model.
 

gadeshi

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
9,223
Likes
6,636
It is so funny that you mention that considering India is the place to dispel your myths. India tested Russia's AESA tech and it couldn't even target commercial airliners at 100km much less do multi-mode. Egypt ordered MiG-35 but Russia couldn't deliver, so they offered them twice the number of MiG-29M2 for the same price. I think you are confused over the implementation of the technology, Russia does not have an in-service example much less a flying GaN model.
India has tested Zhuk-A early prototype (GaAs that time) and found it promising. Old MiG-35 has lost a contest not for a radar (MiG-35 was one of the 2 aircraft with AESA ready in the contest that time), but for an engine and a general prematurity of type.

@Armand2REP you are a retard teenager with poor information sources and myths instead of knowledge.
Didn't you tired to be a local clawn in every post?

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk
 

Steven Rogers

NaPakiRoaster
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
1,537
Likes
2,416
Country flag
Yes, but:
1 - Superconductivity is not required in this case;
2 - It can be turned into high temperature superconductor by including special compounds into it.


Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk
Well for a photonic system you need a superconductor.... Eager to know what special materials will be amalgamated with niobium nitride so that it can maintain the same superconductor properties at high temperatures as it maintains in the lower temperature and can emit and detect photons .
 

Steven Rogers

NaPakiRoaster
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
1,537
Likes
2,416
Country flag
It is actually aluminum diamond spreaders used to dissipate the heat.
Heat caused breaking up of GaN semi conductor material in various tested here in India.. Now we have mastered it and are soon productionizing for next gen aesa radars for various operations.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
India has tested Zhuk-A early prototype (GaAs that time) and found it promising. Old MiG-35 has lost a contest not for a radar (MiG-35 was one of the 2 aircraft with AESA ready in the contest that time), but for an engine and a general prematurity of type.

@Armand2REP you are a retard teenager with poor information sources and myths instead of knowledge.
Didn't you tired to be a local clawn in every post?

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk
MiG-35 has failed three evaluations because its AESA is not working. Make it four counting Russia not fielding it yet. Old MiG-35 lost, new MiG-35 lost because it still isn't ready. How much more evidence do you need?

There you go with the personal insults again. It doesn't make your case any better.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Heat caused breaking up of GaN semi conductor material in various tested here in India.. Now we have mastered it and are soon productionizing for next gen aesa radars for various operations.
That is all well and good, but it is still just a semi-conductor that does the same thing as the GaAs module, just at higher power that still has to be cooled efficiently. You know what they say about learning to walk before you can run.
 

Steven Rogers

NaPakiRoaster
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
1,537
Likes
2,416
Country flag
That is all well and good, but it is still just a semi-conductor that does the same thing as the GaAs module, just at higher power that still has to be cooled efficiently. You know what they say about learning to walk before you can run.
It is 5 times more efficient compared to GaA, and almost double capable in performance than GaA.... The unique material needs lesser cooling than the GaA counterpart. India has partially mastered the liquid cooling. It's just application which will register the full mastered tech. Indian High band jammer uses Indian liquid cooling so as Indian aesa radars which require large cooling due to GaA which melts at high temperatures .
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
It is 5 times more efficient compared to GaA, and almost double capable in performance than GaA.... The unique material needs lesser cooling than the GaA counterpart. India has partially mastered the liquid cooling. It's just application which will register the full mastered tech. Indian High band jammer uses Indian liquid cooling so as Indian aesa radars which require large coolings to GaA.
Actually it is 10X more capable, as GaAs maxes at 5w and GaN maxes at 50w. It is also 4X the heat so good luck finding something to cool that off with. There is no heat reduction with GaN, it is just able to operate at higher temperatures. It is like pouring anti-freeze into water, it raises the boiling point but it will still boil at the new level. You still have to make a better cooling system for GaN than you do for GaAs.
 

Steven Rogers

NaPakiRoaster
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
1,537
Likes
2,416
Country flag
Actually it is 10X more capable, as GaAs maxes at 5w and GaN maxes at 50w. It is also 4X the heat so good luck finding something to cool that off with. There is no heat reduction with GaN, it is just able to operate at higher temperatures. It is like pouring anti-freeze into water, it raises the boiling point but it will still boil at the new level. You still have to make a better cooling system for GaN than you do for GaAs.
It still dissipates less heat compared to GaA when compared the poweroutput, performs at much higher temperature than the GaA does so it is obvious current cooling system is enough for GaN. In applications to the radar it is optimized to the poweroutput required by radars per modules and everyone will be happy to put a 50W quad tr module to Max poweroutput to 15-20kW for a radar than simply putting 10W quad module in 2000s of nos.....
 
Last edited:

Steven Rogers

NaPakiRoaster
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
1,537
Likes
2,416
Country flag
India has tested Zhuk-A early prototype (GaAs that time) and found it promising. Old MiG-35 has lost a contest not for a radar (MiG-35 was one of the 2 aircraft with AESA ready in the contest that time), but for an engine and a general prematurity of type.

@Armand2REP you are a retard teenager with poor information sources and myths instead of knowledge.
Didn't you tired to be a local clawn in every post?

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk
Earlier Zhuk AE aesa had cooling problem because it was aircooled system.... India had rejected Zhuk AE than...
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
It still dissipates less heat compared to GaA when compared the poweroutput, performs at much higher temperature than the GaA does so it is obvious current cooling system is enough for GaN. In applications to the radar it is optimized to the poweroutput required by radars per modules and everyone will be happy to put a 50W quad tr module to Max poweroutput to 15-20kW for a radar than simply putting 10W quad module in 2000s of nos.....
Who told you that? GaN can operate at higher temperatures, but that is still HIGHER temperatures. The only benefit of GaN over GaAs is how much power you can run through it. You still need an efficient substrate that will act as the heat sink and if using GaN, you need an even better substrate. The most efficient substrate is diamonds for thermal conductivity. The US is using an aluminum diamond alloy.
 

Steven Rogers

NaPakiRoaster
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
1,537
Likes
2,416
Country flag
Who told you that? GaN can operate at higher temperatures, but that is still HIGHER temperatures. The only benefit of GaN over GaAs is how much power you can run through it. You still need an efficient substrate that will act as the heat sink and if using GaN, you need an even better substrate. The most efficient substrate is diamonds for thermal conductivity. The US is using an aluminum diamond alloy.
Aluminium diamond is used by every every GaN operator as substrate. GaN has high thermal conductivity, almost 3ce the GaA has so it dissipates lesser much lesser heat than the GaA does. It doesn't operate at high temperatures but it survives and operates higher performance at high, or higher temperatures which with GaA ain't possible.
 

gadeshi

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
9,223
Likes
6,636
Earlier Zhuk AE aesa had cooling problem because it was aircooled system.... India had rejected Zhuk AE than...
Yes, but the main reason was engine and premature status.
Old GaAs based Zhuk-AE was rejected not for cooling reason but for its weight and power consumption.

And yes, Zhuk radars are not connected to T-50 tech level in any mean cause its's been developped by Phasotron company, that uses completely different technology chains and TRM vendors thsn NIIP that has designed Zaslon, Bars, Irbis and Belka radars.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk
 

gadeshi

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
9,223
Likes
6,636
MiG-35 has failed three evaluations because its AESA is not working. Make it four counting Russia not fielding it yet. Old MiG-35 lost, new MiG-35 lost because it still isn't ready. How much more evidence do you need?
There you go with the personal insults again. It doesn't make your case any better.
Well, I'll not be personal. I will send you to learn MMRCA contest docs and releases first before writing BS.
 

gadeshi

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
9,223
Likes
6,636
Who told you that? GaN can operate at higher temperatures, but that is still HIGHER temperatures. The only benefit of GaN over GaAs is how much power you can run through it. You still need an efficient substrate that will act as the heat sink and if using GaN, you need an even better substrate. The most efficient substrate is diamonds for thermal conductivity. The US is using an aluminum diamond alloy.
ORLY???
So why GaN TRMs have 65 to 85 percent of energy effectiveness while GaAs ones have 25% at maximum?
Energy effectiveness (and much less power consumption for a watt of transmitted energy) is the main GaN advantage.
The other advantages are much less requirements to cooling system (as a result of less power consumption and of course much higher temperature tolerance) and much better radiation resistance in high altitude and space.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top