Successful user trial of MSMC

[ezsasa]

MSMC nee JVPC should replace age old 9 mm sten carbine still in use by the army, paramilitary and state police forces if the weapon is perfected and trial is successful.

Instead of looking at JVPC as a replacement for sten, it should be marketed as PDW(personal defence weapon). Our own version of uzi.

I am looking forward to see it with silencer.

 

[abingdonboy]

Instead of looking at JVPC as a replacement for sten, it should be marketed as PDW(personal defence weapon). Our own version of uzi.

I am looking forward to see it with silencer.

The terms SMG and PDW are largely interchangeble now, why couldn't the JVPC be a replacement for the 9mm Sten?

 

[ezsasa]

The terms SMG and PDW are largely interchangeble now, why couldn't the JVPC be a replacement for the 9mm Sten?

My comment is more in terms of marketing cycle. Since it is nearing completion of development cycle, marketing cycle would start shortly. In a marketing cycle it is important to expand the target audience at the beginning stages.

I am not saying it cannot be a replacement of sten, I am saying it can be marketed far beyond India as a UZI's competition.

JVPC can easily be used a concealed SMG. It can tap into all international markets where UZI is not banned. I think it has the potential far beyond just Indian security forces.

 

[Kchontha]

IMHO what JVPC lack is not in term of quality but lack of marketing techniques from its OEM (OFB in this case); lack of commercial wing or marketing arm has made some of its quality products render useless without any customers. DRDO has made Brahmos aerospace as it temporary marketing agency similarly ofb should rope in some marketing agency to market its products. They should come out of their shell otherwise they don't have a chance in this cut throat world of business.

 

[cobra commando]

Indeed, would like to know what calibre this weapon is chambered for, if it is 9mm then the lack of recoil is to be expected, if it is heavier then that then this is impressive.

5.56x30 MINSAS round. much lethal, very danger !

 

[abingdonboy]

IMHO what JVPC lack is not in term of quality but lack of marketing techniques from its OEM (OFB in this case); lack of commercial wing or marketing arm has made some of its quality products render useless without any customers. DRDO has made Brahmos aerospace as it temporary marketing agency similarly ofb should rope in some marketing agency to market its products. They should come out of their shell otherwise they don't have a chance in this cut throat world of business.

This is what ALL DPSUs fail at, they are far too insular looking.

Look at how poor HAL/ADA have been at marketing the LCA, with a properly managed PR campaign they could easily build up hype for this beast and win over many Indians.

 

[Brij Ray]

MSMC being fired. Looks good

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Give a look at the thread, The range is 200ms and the 5.56mm is actually a cut down INSAS round, NATO and OFB 5.56mm are not same, The smaller round has more powerful charge in it for same velocity as its longer cousin ..

5.56x30mm is design to penetrate BP vest same as INSAS 5.56mm.

I am by no means an expert, but this is what I gathered. The 5.56x30 has too much velocity at short distance. The bullet will exit the body cleanly without fragmenting. Also the bullet is too small and may not damage internal organs. But the bullet loses velocity quickly at distances more than 50m or so, it has very little momentum (it's mass is already low) to cause damage.
9 mm is more dependent on mass to cause damage and will kill at short distance due to larger wound. But it cannot penetrate body armour effectively due to less velocity.

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

Give a look at the thread, The range is 200ms and the 5.56mm is actually a cut down INSAS round, NATO and OFB 5.56mm are not same, The smaller round has more powerful charge in it for same velocity as its longer cousin ..

5.56x30mm is design to penetrate BP vest same as INSAS 5.56mm.

So this is our desi 5.7x28 FN ?

 

[Johny_Baba]

So this is our desi 5.7x28 FN ?

As mentioned by @Kunal Biswas dada wayyy back in 2013,
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/successful-user-trial-of-msmc.55979/page-2#post-815509

It is more likely similar to a cancelled project - a carbine (or 'Mini Assault Rifle') and its cartridge designated 5.56 x 30mm MARS,developed by Colt.

Colt MARS - Mini Assault Rifle System,Chambered in 5.56 x 30mm MARS

.

Colt's 5.56 x 30mm MARS round and its dimensions

Their aim was to make a ultralightweight carbine chambered in shortened 5.56mm cartridge that have similar ballistic performance to standard 5.56 x 45mm round.In that way,they can have a lightweight fully automatic carbine with same barrel (albeit,shorter for carbine role),almost similar parts and mainly,a similar weapon to standard issue assault rifle.This weapon could've become a forerunner of M4 carbine with true carbine round that has almost similar performances to 55 grains standard 5.56 x 45mm upto 300m,not bad at all for a carbine.

This weapon could've replaced many aging M3 'grease guns' as they were still being used by US Armed Forces (mainly,tank crews and SF commandos) in mid 90's and those 9mm MP5 sub-machine guns with more lethal weapon but arrival of M4 carbine,a rifle cartridge carbine might have make it 'unnecessary' in views of US Armed Forces.

Our effort to make a 'Sub Machine Carbine' is similar to this project,We made Amogh in conventional rifle configuration and MSMC/JVPC in 'semi-bullpup' configuration.

For more information,

• http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...fense-weapon-calibers-005-the-5-56x30mm-mars/
• http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1239
  
• http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...achine-carbine-msmc-and-5-56x30mm-ammunition/

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

As mentioned by @Kunal Biswas dada wayyy back in 2013,
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/successful-user-trial-of-msmc.55979/page-2#post-815509

It is more likely similar to a cancelled project - a carbine (or 'Mini Assault Rifle') and its cartridge designated 5.56 x 30mm MARS,developed by Colt.

Colt MARS - Mini Assault Rifle System,Chambered in 5.56 x 30mm MARS

.

Colt's 5.56 x 30mm MARS round and its dimensions

Their aim was to make a ultralightweight carbine chambered in shortened 5.56mm cartridge that have similar ballistic performance to standard 5.56 x 45mm round.In that way,they can have a lightweight fully automatic carbine with same barrel (albeit,shorter for carbine role),almost similar parts and mainly,a similar weapon to standard issue assault rifle.This weapon could've become a forerunner of M4 carbine with true carbine round that has almost similar performances to 55 grains standard 5.56 x 45mm upto 300m,not bad at all for a carbine.

This weapon could've replaced many aging M3 'grease guns' as they were still being used by US Armed Forces (mainly,tank crews and SF commandos) in mid 90's and those 9mm MP5 sub-machine guns with more lethal weapon but arrival of M4 carbine,a rifle cartridge carbine might have make it 'unnecessary' in views of US Armed Forces.

Our effort to make a 'Sub Machine Carbine' is similar to this project,We made Amogh in conventional rifle configuration and MSMC/JVPC in 'semi-bullpup' configuration.

For more information,

• http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...fense-weapon-calibers-005-the-5-56x30mm-mars/
• http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1239
  
• http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...achine-carbine-msmc-and-5-56x30mm-ammunition/

So it's flatter shooting and harder hitting than the FN 5.7. Sweet !!

 

[Prashant12]

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[Prashant12]

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[S.Balaji]

Good news at-last ...some moment on JVPC front ...Indian Express report says that JVPC produced by OFB has been handed over to paramilitary forces.

But the confusing part is the picture caption says that it is being handed over to user trials? Will a product not yet been in trials will be accorded a place of honor in a handing over ceremony?. Did our media with intellectual capacity of a rabbit got it wrong as usual?.Some members in this forum with inside knowledge have said that JVPC has completed user trials

 

[Screambowl]

why do they need it?
how is it different from insas or ak 47?

..........................................................

 

[ezsasa]

Good news at-last ...some moment on JVPC front ...Indian Express report says that JVPC produced by OFB has been handed over to paramilitary forces.View attachment 19822

But the confusing part is the picture caption says that it is being handed over to user trials? Will a product not yet been in trials will be accorded a place of honor in a handing over ceremony?. Did our media with intellectual capacity of a rabbit got it wrong as usual?.Some members in this forum with inside knowledge have said that JVPC has completed user trials

Maybe this can be construed as MoD lobbying with home minister to acquire JVPC.

Home ministry is notorious for delaying decisions, last year I read somewhere that they 16 months to approve AK mods and probably not approved still.

similar procurement got initiated approved and completed in far lesser time in IA.

 

[Johny_Baba]

why do they need it?
how is it different from insas or ak 47?

..........................................................

We need to change those dinosaur era 9mm Sten and Sterlings with a effective compact weapon,and MSMC/JVPC is designed to take their place.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Is MSMC comparable or better than Israels UZI?

 

[Screambowl]

We need to change those dinosaur era 9mm Sten and Sterlings with a effective compact weapon,and MSMC/JVPC is designed to take their place.

so this will have same effect as Ak or insas and same range?

 

[EXPERT]

Is MSMC comparable or better than Israels UZI?

Cant say as of now, Its been offered to the paramilitary for trails. Although MSMC is in development since 2010 but still it is in the development phase.
And we all know that this trail will take atleast an year,
---> then the end-user will suggest some recommendation/changes
----> then it will take 6 Months to incorporate the changes
----> then it will again come for user trail
-----> finally after all the buzz, end-user will float a global tender for procurement of same category of weapon
-----> The program will go cold storage, and slightly end with nothing
------> Then end-user will again cancel their procurement plan after few years of trail because of single vendor situation or case of bribery.