Su-35 vs Super Su-30 MKI

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actualy ,its not good that you compare each and every thing with chinese compartment.
Why we always compare MKI with each and every fighter of this world (with f15,f18,eft,rafale,j10,11s etc,etc) and now with SU35.
Each and every fighter have diff. roles ,duties and capability.
MKI cant fit on each and every perspective.
 

arya

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actualy ,its not good that you compare each and every thing with chinese compartment.
Why we always compare MKI with each and every fighter of this world (with f15,f18,eft,rafale,j10,11s etc,etc) and now with SU35.
Each and every fighter have diff. roles ,duties and capability.
MKI cant fit on each and every perspective.
what are you talking man , how will you counter su35 while mki is not standing in desicssion how will they handle in war .

Do you current conditions and what that' s mean.

We have to take our defence serious .

See our army is in worst conditions now airforce is also lossing edge .

If we don' t compare with china then what you want we should compare with nepal.
 
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Bhadra

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Why is one worried if Russian are giving you PAK FA....
 

arya

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Why is one worried if Russian are giving you PAK FA....
brother pakfa will take time we have to fill the gap .

We need to use some thing to giver upper edge to our force while we have less numbers.
 

tharikiran

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I don't see China buying SU35 as a worrying sign.

The fact is SU30 MKI was and is the most advanced Sukhoi fighter in operational role.
Yup, better than what the Chinese are fielding as on today.
When it was developed it's base was not SU27...but SU37.

It had the best radar Russia had to offer and the best of western avionics.
Chinese purchase of SU35 will have a better Radar and better avionics than their existing sukhoi's have.

But the Indian upgrade with AESA will definitely match up.
We can never compete with China in numbers.
 

ADITYA MAYUKH

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We can also integrate it with super mki and any other fighter of iaf and btw brahmos aam is ready and is going to be tested and two sukhoi has been modified for it .a mini version of brahmos is in development for medium range fighter as rafale ,mig 29 upg and mirage 2000-5 mk 2 of iaf
 

Shirman

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btw @ Aditya mayukh r u not the same dude frm yesterday @ Mariner HK who compared Su-35/ eurofighter vs rafale........ even he in his post mentioned brahmos as air-2-air missile..........:rolleyes:
 

ADITYA MAYUKH

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I am not telling it is air to air missile but i am saying it is being tested for air to air role and is in development phase.brahmos was a surface to surface missile at the time it was developed but after that this programe was expanded and air to air variant of it is a part of it
 

Daredevil

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Brahmos as air-to-air missile is overkill plus it doesn't have the maneuverability to chase aircraft or awacs. Its simply a fanboy fantasy. :rolleyes:
 

ADITYA MAYUKH

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Brhamos as a highly manuverable missile .it was the first manuverable crusie missile to perform manuovers in its trajectry.and in the air to air role it can do the same and with its high crusing speed it can chase any plane in its reach and destroy it.
 

manishhot

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Brhamos as a highly manuverable missile .it was the first manuverable crusie missile to perform manuovers in its trajectry.and in the air to air role it can do the same and with its high crusing speed it can chase any plane in its reach and destroy it.
brahmos aam, just stupid
 

subir

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well first buy any second class item earn money by kickback then upgrade that item again earn money by kickback..

Why we refused su35 when we had option? Why more order for su30


can any one tell me coast of su30 with upgrade .
The main advantage that MKI has over most su30 variants is its versatility. It can change configuration very quickly from A2A to A2G to maritime strike to a multitude of other roles. Squadrons can change their aircrafts from CAS to CAP to strike support etc roles in just a few hours. This is due to the fact that the avionics and the weapons plumbings are designed especially for the IAF requirement for a truly multi-role aircraft. In layman language it has open-architecture and supports plug and play for many components.

Su35 on the other hand is designed to dog-fight and is not a multi-role aircraft despite what some websites and ad-brochures claim. Yes it can also do CAS if required, but its radar is not designed to operate very well against ground clutter. As you know ground target discrimination is critical in a CAS role. In a CAP role, on the other hand it excels. Now if someone asks if su35 could be modified for better A2G role, the answer is undoubtedly YES. but it will require a long and arduous reconfiguration exercise which IAF went through with the SU30 to get the SU30MKI.

About the Super sukhoi, the last I heard was that its the modifications being done for airborne brahmos and nuclear delivery capabilities which are being added to the aircraft.

Price of MKI is an irrelevant question as it ranges from 25 mil (first HAL batches) to about 85+ mil for the super sukhoi (dont have the exact price).

I heard the current HAL delivered planes cost anywhere between 30-35 mil.

As to the question why India chose su30 over the su35 for modifications, well I suspect the reasons are primarily commercial. Russia I hear was asking for a ridiculous price for su35 in the early 2000's when the MKI program started.

Hope this helps.
 
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archie

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Brhamos as a highly manuverable missile .it was the first manuverable crusie missile to perform manuovers in its trajectry.and in the air to air role it can do the same and with its high crusing speed it can chase any plane in its reach and destroy it.
Why would anyone use such a heavy missile as air to air that to with a limit of 1 per aircraft.
 

trackwhack

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@Daredevil

Bramhos AAM. Of course not. However, next gen BVRAAM of above Novator class will probably be hitching a ride on a similar platform before a supersonic ejection for final engagement phase. I have a friend who works in Snecma HAL who was talking...
 
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pmaitra

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Sorry for resurrecting an old thread. I did not want to open a new thread on this topic.
______________

Russia to Upgrade the Su-35 Fighter Based on Experience From Syria
For one it was discovered the jet will suck in small stones on rough airfields

Dave Majumdar | [SOURCE]



Russia hopes to upgrade its fleet of Sukhoi Su-35S Flanker-E multirole fighters based on experience gained operating in Syria this year.

As with almost all new aircraft—even those with otherwise excellent designs—minor but vexing flaws are often be discovered during high intensity real world operations. In this case, the Russian Air Force is correcting relatively minor issues that cropped up while operating in austere conditions in Syria.

“This year’s aircraft will be upgraded based on all the drawbacks and the Syrian experience,” Russian deputy defense minister Yuri Borisov told the Moscow-based TASS News agency during a visit to the Gagarin aircraft plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur on June 5.

According to TASS, one of the main modifications is to a set of screens in the Su-35’s inlets that are designed to prevent the ingestion of foreign object debris (FOD).

In this case, “small stones” were being ingested by the aircraft—which could seriously damage the jet’s twin Saturn AL-41F1S engines. Unlike most Western jets, Russian—and Soviet aircraft before them—are typically designed with inlet screens that are designed to allow them to operate from austere airfields.

It’s not surprising that the Russian Air Force discovered minor issues with the Su-35 and the other aircraft that it deployed to Syria. Indeed, such discoveries are typical for all aircraft types in every air force.

“There is no better stress test for a new aircraft than sustained flight operations,” Mike Kofman, a research scientist at the Center for Naval Analyses specializing in Russian military affairs, told The National Interest.

“The expeditionary setting no doubt places added pressure on the maintenance and support crew.”

Other than the inlet screens, the Su-35 might also receive some minor tweaks to its avionics hardware and software—particularly those systems pertaining to air-to-ground missions.

“Basically as I understand it, there were just some small problems which emerged during the intense combat use during the war,” Vasily Kashin, a senior fellow at the Center for Comprehensive European and International Studies at Moscow’s Higher School of Economics told The National Interest.

“Since the aircraft was employed for ground strike missions—more with smart weapons and dumb bombs—there can be some modifications for software and systems responsible for ground attack.”

The Russian Air Force is more or less satisfied with the Su-35S, thus there are no immediate plans to upgrade the aircraft with major new systems like an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

“There will be no AESA,” Kashin said.

They have a very powerful PESA [Passive Electronically Scanned Array] radar and it is considered to be the strong point.

What the Russian Air Force does need, however, are targeting pods similar to the Lockheed Martin Sniper or Northrop Grumman LITENING pods. Right now, only the Sukhoi Su-34 Fullback bomber has a decent air-to-ground electro-optical/infra-red targeting capability with a built-in system called Platan. The Su-30SM and the Su-35 have to rely on their radars for targeting air-to-surface targets because of the lack of suitable targeting pods.

The lack of pods is considered to be a major weakness of the Russian Air Force,” Kashin said.

The Russians are developing indigenous pods after plans for co-development with France fell through. Indeed, for a time, the Russians had intended to license produce the Thales Damocles pod.

“There is a targeting pod development program which started even before Syria, but no results yet,” Kashin said.

“As I understand, before the sanctions there were plans for cooperation with France. So later the plans changed, not the Russian pods are still being tested.”

It’s not clear when Russia’s indigenous targeting pods might be fielded.

Source: The National Interest
 

square

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Sorry for resurrecting an old thread. I did not want to open a new thread on this topic.
______________

Russia to Upgrade the Su-35 Fighter Based on Experience From Syria
For one it was discovered the jet will suck in small stones on rough airfields

Dave Majumdar | [SOURCE]



Russia hopes to upgrade its fleet of Sukhoi Su-35S Flanker-E multirole fighters based on experience gained operating in Syria this year.

As with almost all new aircraft—even those with otherwise excellent designs—minor but vexing flaws are often be discovered during high intensity real world operations. In this case, the Russian Air Force is correcting relatively minor issues that cropped up while operating in austere conditions in Syria.

“This year’s aircraft will be upgraded based on all the drawbacks and the Syrian experience,” Russian deputy defense minister Yuri Borisov told the Moscow-based TASS News agency during a visit to the Gagarin aircraft plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur on June 5.

According to TASS, one of the main modifications is to a set of screens in the Su-35’s inlets that are designed to prevent the ingestion of foreign object debris (FOD).

In this case, “small stones” were being ingested by the aircraft—which could seriously damage the jet’s twin Saturn AL-41F1S engines. Unlike most Western jets, Russian—and Soviet aircraft before them—are typically designed with inlet screens that are designed to allow them to operate from austere airfields.

It’s not surprising that the Russian Air Force discovered minor issues with the Su-35 and the other aircraft that it deployed to Syria. Indeed, such discoveries are typical for all aircraft types in every air force.

“There is no better stress test for a new aircraft than sustained flight operations,” Mike Kofman, a research scientist at the Center for Naval Analyses specializing in Russian military affairs, told The National Interest.

“The expeditionary setting no doubt places added pressure on the maintenance and support crew.”

Other than the inlet screens, the Su-35 might also receive some minor tweaks to its avionics hardware and software—particularly those systems pertaining to air-to-ground missions.

“Basically as I understand it, there were just some small problems which emerged during the intense combat use during the war,” Vasily Kashin, a senior fellow at the Center for Comprehensive European and International Studies at Moscow’s Higher School of Economics told The National Interest.

“Since the aircraft was employed for ground strike missions—more with smart weapons and dumb bombs—there can be some modifications for software and systems responsible for ground attack.”

The Russian Air Force is more or less satisfied with the Su-35S, thus there are no immediate plans to upgrade the aircraft with major new systems like an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

“There will be no AESA,” Kashin said.

They have a very powerful PESA [Passive Electronically Scanned Array] radar and it is considered to be the strong point.

What the Russian Air Force does need, however, are targeting pods similar to the Lockheed Martin Sniper or Northrop Grumman LITENING pods. Right now, only the Sukhoi Su-34 Fullback bomber has a decent air-to-ground electro-optical/infra-red targeting capability with a built-in system called Platan. The Su-30SM and the Su-35 have to rely on their radars for targeting air-to-surface targets because of the lack of suitable targeting pods.

The lack of pods is considered to be a major weakness of the Russian Air Force,” Kashin said.

The Russians are developing indigenous pods after plans for co-development with France fell through. Indeed, for a time, the Russians had intended to license produce the Thales Damocles pod.

“There is a targeting pod development program which started even before Syria, but no results yet,” Kashin said.

“As I understand, before the sanctions there were plans for cooperation with France. So later the plans changed, not the Russian pods are still being tested.”

It’s not clear when Russia’s indigenous targeting pods might be fielded.

Source: The National Interest
so it has problum in ground attack mode , which even the jaguare can easly perform......how it going to perform in a combat situation then ??
 

pmaitra

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so it has problum in ground attack mode , which even the jaguare can easly perform......how it going to perform in a combat situation then ??
It will need to have an equivalent of the Platan or Damocles for combat in air to ground attack mode. It performs satisfactorily in combat i.e. in air dog-fighting.
 

square

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It will need to have an equivalent of the Platan or Damocles for combat in air to ground attack mode. It performs satisfactorily in combat i.e. in air dog-fighting.
do isis has 4+g fighter jet in syria , where it perform satisfactory in a air to air mode...?
 

TPFscopes

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Brhamos as a highly manuverable missile .it was tstanirst manuverable crusie missile to perform manuovers in its trajectry.and in the air to air role it can do the same and with its high crusing speed it can chase any plane in its reach and destroy it.
Aditya, when there is need to improve your facts than why you are resistant to it.
You have to under stand the roles of missiles.
Have you heard about SCALP? you can slightly compare the role of air launch Brahmos version with it. But when we have fully ready Brahmos (air launch version) than it will have more Capabilities than others.
 

Armand2REP

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Su 35 vs super 30 mki
Russian BVRAAMS have such a high failure rate this fight would likely go into the merge. I don't know the exact specifications on the Super 30 deal but the edge would go to India's imported avionics that give better situational awareness and on a general flight hour basis India flies twice as much as Russian pilots. Most likely India would win unless facing the most skilled Russian instructor.
 

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