Su-30MkI V/S JF-17 & J-10

VayuSena1

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The best way to compare is...Su 30MKI vs SU30MKK/F15C/I, F16Blk50 vs J10A/MRCA winner, JF17vs LCA/F16a/b
Actually, you are quite wrong in the second half and I must say that you seem to have underestimated the Tejas, my friend. While the engineers are still working on the re-design and manufacture of the Mk.2, it would be prudent to compare Tejas with F-16 of the previous decade and not that of 3 decades back. Tejas is a light multirole fighter while F-16 is a medium combat aircraft.

JF-17 and Tejas are more likely to be comparable since both fall under almost similar category. And this thread of comparing the Su-30 MKI with JF-17 is rather unequal and would be like comparing an upgraded MiG-23 BN with a Eurofighter Typhoon.
 

rock45

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Comparing aircraft

Hi VayuSena1
I'm confused here
Tejas is a light multirole fighter while F-16 is a medium combat aircraft.
The F-16 is truly a multirole fighter maybe one of the best ever made.

While the engineers are still working on the re-design and manufacture of the Mk.2,
I don't think you can compare at all the Tejas to an F-16 any model or version at all really. Think about it it's still an unfinished project to begin with which honestly has really drag out something 17 plus years already. I don't how it can be called a " multirole fighter" and even use in the same sentence as a proven F-16 with 4,000 + made and sold.
I don't want to sound mean but too much credited is given to the Tejas. I really think India should have moved on many, many year ago on this.

I know I'll be hated for saying that and it was a great first leap into the aviation producing industry for India to take. If you think about how much money and time was spent on this project it turn into a pride thing for India. If a different country was producing the Tejas and taking this long most of the people in forum would be all over it. By the time its operational your not going to want flying in India's Air Force. Maybe a Block-II Tejas will be the answer but lets be honest it hasn't been the best run aircraft producing program. It should have been ended many years ago and regenerated into some better using what was learn. It is very hard to build a modern fighter type aircraft intelligent people know and understand that. The Tejas is flying so that puts India in what six or seven country's in the world that can produce flyable aircraft in the world, not bad in my book.
 

Soham

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Hi VayuSena1

I don't think you can compare at all the Tejas to an F-16 any model or version at all really. Think about it it's still an unfinished project to begin with which honestly has really drag out something 17 plus years already. I don't how it can be called a " multirole fighter" and even use in the same sentence as a proven F-16 with 4,000 + made and sold.
I don't want to sound mean but too much credited is given to the Tegas. I really think India should have moved on many, many year ago on this.
It can be a blunder to speak without knowledge friend.
The LCA today, is not what LCA originally was. The design, payload and weapon systems have continuously evolved according to the new requirements presented by the Indian Air Force.
It might have taken time, but it would be a discredit to hundreds working in this project if you say "too much credit has been given".

My suggestion to you would be to read up more on the development of the Tejas, and the LCA thread here can be a very good beginning.
 

rock45

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Somebody did answer I knew I couldn't post some bad about this aircraft without getting some feed back. I step away for awhile and just added to my first post on this.

I realized it's not the same and so many changes have taken place but it's still a pride thing. Its not as good as you think it is if it was you'll be mass producing it big time. If it was even half as good as most of you think and hope it is India would have production lines being setup right now. Its first start and just that.

You guys (not you per say sohamsri) have been telling me get a tougher skin on some of the American comments well the Tejas fans need to get a tougher skin to. Honestly if it were a private company building this designed, aircraft,etc for your own personnel owned aircraft company you would have ended years ago and move on. Nothing wrong with having pride but be honest with it.

evolved according to the new requirements presented by the Indian Air Force.
This could mean anything and could years away from being on par with anything current.

It might have taken time, but it would be a discredit to hundreds working in this project if you say "too much credit has been given".
Its not meant that way but its turn into a pride thing. I've heard India posters say its taken too long and has grown into a unstoppable project. They might even be people on this forum who are part of the team who worked on this project it's nothing against them. Project leaders and I'm sure the government in some way are more to blame for not making changes. We all know to well key people in the right places can get stuck on certain ideas and slow anything down, what would make this project any different? The difference on some and not all is that sometimes higher ups say enough, either change it, fix it, do something or were pulling the plug
But it didn't happen on this project is all I'm saying.

My country wasted billions of dollars for a lousy scout helicopter that was cut before it was finish and may not have never been finish, India not the only one believe me.
 

Soham

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Somebody did answer I knew I couldn't post some bad about this aircraft without getting some feed back. I step away for awhile and just added to my first post on this.

I realized it's not the same and so many changes have taken place but it's still a pride thing. Its not as good as you think it is if it was you'll be mass producing it big time. If it was even half as good as most of you think and hope it is India would have production lines being setup right now. Its first start and just that.

You guys (not you per say sohamsri) have been telling me get a tougher skin on some of the American comments well the Tejas fans need to get a tougher skin to. Honestly if it were a private company building this designed, aircraft,etc for your own personnel owned aircraft company you would have ended years ago and move on. Nothing wrong with having pride but be honest with it.


This could mean anything and could years away from being on par with anything current.


Its not meant that way but its turn into a pride thing. I've heard India posters say its taken too long and has grown into a unstoppable project. They might even be people on this forum who are part of the team who worked on this project it's nothing against them. Project leaders and I'm sure the government in some way are more to blame for not making changes. We all know to well key people in the right places can get stuck on certain ideas and slow anything down, what would make this project any different? The difference on some and not all is that sometimes higher ups say enough, either change it, fix it, do something or were pulling the plug
But it didn't happen on this project is all I'm saying.

My country wasted billions of dollars for a lousy scout helicopter that was cut before it was finish and may not have never been finish, India not the only one believe me.
I think you misunderstood.
As you said, requirements will change with time. But it doesn't change the fact that the air-frame is a very capable one, with a bright future.

Please never ever call me a fan of anything, as I'm not a fanboy of any sorts.
The Tejas project is still active because its hides a bright future within it.
India is no US that we can afford to spend billions to ultimately discard.

Its not a pride thing. You must understand that this is just the second fighter designed by India. And the first one was no big success. The experience for such projects is hard to come by especially when Indian scientists are continuously going abroad to work with western companies.

Don't think that we praise it just because it is Indian. Being Indian also gives us the right to criticize it more than anyone else.
 

rock45

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Bright future

I wish the project all the luck in world

Being Indian also gives us the right to criticize it more than anyone else
I'll keep this in mind when the United States is criticized.

Rock
 

K Factor

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Being Indian also gives us the right to criticize it more than anyone else
This is BS. If nationalistic crapping is the idea, then why have such forums?

Let me start a scenario to compare the Fighters.

The Su30 MKI is pressed for surgical strikes on lahore Millitant training camps. The Halwara airbase is given a task to take out the militant training camp. The Sukhois are flying both strike and CAP missions

3 Su 30s loaded with 4 KH 31 and 2 R73 archer and 2 RVV-AE (Arrow head formation)
4 Su 30s Loaded with air to air payload flying 3000ft above the Strike package (finger four formation)

10 JF 17s are scrambled from Lahore to intercept them. These are loaded with air defence package. 2xPL 12( SD-10) and 4x PL 11.

Use your imagination people. It is only 2011.
The entire scenario is BS. Terrorist training camps are more in POK, FATA, NWFP, etc areas, not Punjab. On what kind of strike mission will the MKIs be carrying 4 KH-31s, and not KAB LGBs? Are they on SEAD or ASh mission, cos AFAIK KH-31 is ARM and/or AShM, not land attack.
Plus the fact that there is no consideration of AWACS, etc !!
 

Soham

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This is BS. If nationalistic crapping is the idea, then why have such forums?
To get a platform to praise or criticize or remain neutral after getting enough knowledge to justify our decision.

The entire scenario is BS. Terrorist training camps are more in POK, FATA, NWFP, etc areas, not Punjab. On what kind of strike mission will the MKIs be carrying 4 KH-31s, and not KAB LGBs? Are they on SEAD or ASh mission, cos AFAIK KH-31 is ARM and/or AShM, not land attack.
Plus the fact that there is no consideration of AWACS, etc !!
So true.
 

youngindian

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i think u should start comparing hal tejas vs jf17&j10,su30mki is far ahead its comparison should be with typhoon french rafael f15 silent eagle .
 

sgarg

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I like JF-17 vs Su-30. Let us take a realistic scenario of JF-17 on an attack mission over India to destroy a strategic target.

Let us say 4 JF-17 and 4 F-16 come to attack Ambala airbase and are engaged by 4 Su-30 from either Halwara or Bhisiana.

How will the situation develop?
 

The Fox

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well MKI will eat the Thunder for dinner and $hit it in the Morning
 

sgarg

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The distance between some of the Pakistani and Indian bases is too low. There will be a large number of situations where the engagement will happen at relatively short distance, thus denying the Su-30 advantage of its radar. What about weapons, electronic warfare etc. that can equalize a Su-30 with JF-17?
 

sgarg

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The wikipedia says that JF-17 radar can detect 3sqm target at 75 km and 5sqm target at 120km. Chinese AAM are available for 100km+ range. Does it change any equations?
 

mikhail

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Comparing MKI with JF-17 is a insult to MKI !!!! :mad:
Sir,i think you are a bit underestimating the capabilities of the JF-17 Thunder.We all agree that the JF-17 is a medium range fighter and hence not comparable with the Su-30 MKI but still it's quite a decent combat aircraft in it's price range.I mean on a given day,a JF-17 under a good pilot can make a Mig-29A/B(non upgraded version) of the IAF a run for it's money.
Plus Su-30 MKI isn't an invincible aircraft.It has got it's own Achilles Heels which is in form of it's huge RCS(more like 10/sq. m) and hence it'll be quite easy for any AWACS or ground based Radar system to track it down from a fair distance.Then another Achilles Heel for Su-30 MKI is that it's a maintenance intensive aircraft and hence in an emergency situation the over all availability of Su-30 MKI will be around 60-65%.On the other hand i have read that the JF-17 is a maintenance friendly one and hence will be available in a greater no. in case of an emergency.So while the Su-30 MKI has some advantages over the JF-17 it's safe for us not to underestimate the premium combat aircraft of our primary adversary:rolleyes:.
 

Dhairya Yadav

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Sir,i think you are a bit underestimating the capabilities of the JF-17 Thunder.We all agree that the JF-17 is a medium range fighter and hence not comparable with the Su-30 MKI but still it's quite a decent combat aircraft in it's price range.I mean on a given day,a JF-17 under a good pilot can make a Mig-29A/B(non upgraded version) of the IAF a run for it's money.
Plus Su-30 MKI isn't an invincible aircraft.It has got it's own Achilles Heels which is in form of it's huge RCS(more like 10/sq. m) and hence it'll be quite easy for any AWACS or ground based Radar system to track it down from a fair distance.Then another Achilles Heel for Su-30 MKI is that it's a maintenance intensive aircraft and hence in an emergency situation the over all availability of Su-30 MKI will be around 60-65%.On the other hand i have read that the JF-17 is a maintenance friendly one and hence will be available in a greater no. in case of an emergency.So while the Su-30 MKI has some advantages over the JF-17 it's safe for us not to underestimate the premium combat aircraft of our primary adversary:rolleyes:.
Please dont call me "Sir".
There is a reason that Chinese themselves are reluctant to procure the plane .
JF17 is a good aircraft in its own category, can be compared to Tejas and others like F16 , J10 , Gripen , Mirage 2000 etc. But not Sukhoi. Sukhoi is a heavy fighter.
You are correct about the RCS figures, but 17 also has a huge one for its size. Plus it has one of the most inefficient , outdated engine. So I dont think it will be that maintenance friendly .
Because of these drawbacks , it is classified a 4th gen fighter. Every new plane coming out these days is either 4.5 gen or 5th .
It might be the prime adversary , but it is outdated, outgunned by IAF's Tejas and Sukhoi.

PS- that comment was light-hearted. I was not being serious :p
 

sgarg

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The engine and air-frame are one thing, weapons and electronics are another.

Also the nature of engagement is also important. The designations and classifications do not always help in war.

I am expecting a discussion of effectiveness of available weapons in a typical scenario in India-Pak war.
 

sgarg

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The engine of JF-17 is the same as in Mig-29. So its availability will be in the class of Mig-29.

China has made huge advancement in electronics. There is good reason to believe in the effectiveness of their AAMs. The radar seems to be a good one on this plane.

The JF-17 may be deficient in some aerodynamic aspects but seems to come with a good radar and weapons package.
 

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