Strike Variant of the PAK-FA!

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Crusader53, May 26, 2010.

  1. Crusader53

    Crusader53 Regular Member

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    I've been thinking for some time the 2-Seat Variant of the PAK-FA could make a excellent Strike Fighter. What I mean is a 5th Generation equivalent of the "F-15E" so to speak. Further, as long India is developing the 2-Seater (FGFA) more or less for Indian Requirements. They maybe able to "buy" the rights for such an Aircraft. Especially, considering Russia is primarily interested in the Single Seat Air Superiority Model and could use the funds.


    This could fill a market that neither the F-22 or F-35 are designed for.......
     
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  3. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    What are you talking? F 35 focusses more on Strike element than total air superiority. PAK-FA is an Air Dominance fighter. It is going to compliment the Su 30 MKI and the SU 35 in RuAF. It is capable of performing both A2A and A2G role.
     
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  4. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    First of all, I did not like the Idea of Comparing PAKFA with F-15SE, Two seater version would be the Export version with the clients requirements, Su-30MKI,MKM,MKA,...........
    India would get First preference from Russia, After IAF needs are Full-filled then we can export.
    but the point is correct, Indian and Russian PAKFA would be used for different roles and be superior in their performance , but would give tough competition to both F-22 and 35.
    PAKFA IAF version is Multi-role capability, can handle all the missions according to requirments. may be RuAF's is purely Air dominance fighter.
     
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  5. Crusader53

    Crusader53 Regular Member

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    The F-15C was a single seat Air Superiority Fighter. Which, evolved into the F-15E/K Strike Fighter. (i.e. Bomber) Regardless, I am not saying that the PAK-FA. Shouldn't be used in the Air Superiority Role in either single or twin seat models. More to the point the design could lead itself to a Stealthy Twin Seat Bomber. Basically, a Modern Day F-15E or more like the proposed FB-22 concept.


    BTW The PAK-FA is primarily a Air Superiority Fighter. Just like the F-22 Raptor. Its not designed to be a Strike Fighter in the sense of the F-35 with Multiple Roles. Which, is not to say that it couldn't be adapted for such a role. Yet, its a large and expensive platform for such a role.
     
  6. Crusader53

    Crusader53 Regular Member

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    Can you provide a source that states India plans on using its PAK-FA in a Strike Fighter Role. (i.e. Multi-Role) Which, is hard to believe with a total requirement of only 200-250 aircraft.
     
  7. AJSINGH

    AJSINGH Senior Member Senior Member

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    there are no such reports but 250 aircraft is more than enough for IAF ( only 187 F-22 for USAF ,is that enough ?) PAK FA will have many roles , fighter escorts ,bombers ,recon ,IAF has not designated any specific role to PAK FAGA
     
  8. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    IAF at present had changed its views, At present its only preffering Multi- role air crafts, which can be available at time of war. like Su-30MKI or MRCA so on.......
    i cant give u source exactly, But tell me which Air crafts will PAKFA/FGFA be replace in IAF?
     
  9. AJSINGH

    AJSINGH Senior Member Senior Member

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    well it is not supposed to replace any aircraft in IAF because its new type of aircraft ,so it will enhance the number of combat aircraft available to IAF
     
  10. san

    san Regular Member

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    PAK-FA will expected to induct in IAF around 2020. By that time most of the present aircrafts barring SU30MKI will be their last phase of service and need replacement.
     
  11. san

    san Regular Member

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    IAF is expected to induct PAKFA around 2020. By that time most of the present aircraft barring SUMKI will be end of their service life even with MLU. Though PAKFA will be stealth, its rule will be almost same as present Mig 29 and Mirages or Jaguars. Air superiority and deep strike. Around 2020 PAF and PLAAF will have better performance aircrafts and IAF need to counter. I expect by 2020 China will start mass production of JXX and some of them will be gifted to PAF
     
  12. AJSINGH

    AJSINGH Senior Member Senior Member

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    Mig 29 wont be out because they are just being upgraded , Mirage wont be out because they are being upgraded too. Mig21 will be out but replaced by (hopefully) LCA,so will be Mig27
     
  13. AJSINGH

    AJSINGH Senior Member Senior Member

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    Mig 29 wont be out because they are just being upgraded , Mirage wont be out because they are being upgraded too. Mig21 will be out but replaced by (hopefully) LCA,so will be Mig27
    i do not think China will be ready with J-XXX ( they can hardly make their own engine let alone desgin 5th generation stealth fighter )
    PAK FA role will not be same as of Mig29 and Jaguar ,because those aircraft will still be in service . Look we can not assign any role to PAK FA because like i said new type of aircraft but yeh it will be used for air dominance
     
  14. Crusader53

    Crusader53 Regular Member

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    The PAK-FA may have a limit strike role similar to the Raptor. Yet, its primary role is and likely will be Air Superiority. Just like the Su-30MKI, F-15C, and F-22A are today.

    All that said maybe India will purchase a dedicated Strike Model of the PAK-FA at some point. Of course that is sometime way off and purely speculation at this stage. Which, is why I think a Tactical Bomber Model of the PAK-FA a kin to the F-15E would offer great value to India.
     
  15. AJSINGH

    AJSINGH Senior Member Senior Member

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    true i agree with you , but who knows what IAF might ask PAF FA to do ( because it has stealth )
    i guess PAK FA can used to neutralise enemy air defense and then Su30MKI and Mirage ( for precision bombing raids) can be called to finish the job
     
  16. Crusader53

    Crusader53 Regular Member

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    Well, any aircraft can be adapted for different roles. Yet, all I am saying is what is currently planned.
     
  17. i think the requirement of 250 pak fa's is of today.the could be the requirement of of at least twice that no. in the next two decades. also i heard that sukhoi is also going to produce a naval version of pak fa which i think the indian navy must also consider for it's future carrier fleet much like the naval mca.also since the production of pak fa is going to run over 3 decades begining from 2015 so i think
    in abot 2025-2030 it can be modified into a highly capable ucav like the boeing x47 by the time frame in which most of the world's top air forces will switch from manned to unmaneed strike aircraft
     
  18. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    I doubt this, considering that they have yet to make even a prototype.

    China will probably get their hands on a PAK-FA, reverse engineer it, and call it J-something.
     
  19. icecoolben

    icecoolben Regular Member

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    A strike variant- foolhardy

    assuming that by 2025, a fifth generation engine with 175 kn is developed and manufactured for pakfa. china would probably be offered a customised version with 4 th generation engine like 117s in 2025 by the russians themselves.
    Regarding the strike version,Whether you like it or not, russians will thrust such a variant on us, but it would most likely be a strike bomber like the su-34 is.
    India on the other hand, would like to invest in MCA.
    If current mmrca finishes as planned max at 126+64 and we buy a heavy fighter with state of art features in ew such as rafale with a active-cancellation capacity, there might not be pressing need for a fifth generation fighter till 2020, by which time amca would be in a stage tejas is in now. So a strike version of fgfa would be superfulous.
    Even the present pakfa does not have all 5th generation stuff, its engines would reportedly take 12 years, aesa still 2nd generation . So fronting for fgfa numbers would be at the expense of both amca and kaveri engine. I'm not contemplating, but i feel Personally the Russians are devoted to the project to keep their export market share, which consists of jets upto 50%. Otherwise you can't explain them offering brazil partnership of 5th generation programme for 36 su-35 planes.
    By my own understanding, I see Indian participation for technology and to field a fighter jet that would be hedge against possible chinese j-xx success. Military strategy when effectively based on our inert technological base strength would be a far better deterance than depending on foreign expertise. This has been proven time and again, even in contemperory modern India, the failure to develop gas turbine engine technology has put us in a difficult position of choosing a $ 10 million ej-200 with 50% technology that we desperately need or $ 4 million f414 with no critical technology.
    Fielding soviet fighters during the cold war, though not making technical or strategic sense, at least made economic sense. Given the criticizm the Iaf now faces for not supporting home aircraft programmes then and complain lack of spares now, we cannot back a situation where in 2040, we dub fgfa as flying coffins, blind planes, or lacks this and that the service needs for operation in a situation like kargil but cannot be incorporated due to lack of know how, or worse IPR restrictions. We must learn to build on needs to establish capabilities. The economies of scale that can be attained in India given the enormous needs for aircraft the Iaf has is enough for a domestic manufacturer like Hal to establish themselves as one of the world's leading aircraft manufacturers. In an economic sense too,In a country like India where you have large pool of cheap labour to make a top class 4 th generation aircraft for $ 21 mil, buying engines for $ 10 mil erodes our competitiveness to others as well. The pakfa is now projected at $ 100 million and is being justified worth for a 5th generation fighter. By all means an Indian AMCA with features as advanced as the american raptor would cost a fraction of pakfa, if I had to quote a never exceed price in a clean configuration, it would be less than $ 45 million if completely domestic. Hence the fighter would certainly be even cheaper than any mmrca fighter. The AMCA with a domestic engine and radar (which would certaily be on par with that of pakfa radar, since both are second generation) can be highly effective against any potential adversary till 2040. I certaily agree that AMCA would have lesser range, payload, but, a domestic fighter would be flexible in numerous ways and highly adaptable to overcome any issues from the end user. Even a less capable domestic industry won't hamper our defence capability or preparedness, take for instance the french they have a combat fleet of nearly 300 combat aircraft, but it is backed by force multipliers such as awacs and tankers. Hence a rafale need not be within 200 km to track a target, an awacs can do that at a distance of 1000km while feeding the same to its fighter at a respectable stand off distance. Let us assume an awacs can track a 5 sq m object at 1000 km. Even the f-35 would be detectable at 500 km, from which the aggressor cannot deploy its bvr missiles. The f-22 itself could be tracked at around 300 km and be neutralised by a sufficient number of rafales. So military planning and execution on our own implied capabilites would be far more effective in a war scenario than counting on performance of top tier systems. If people still front for a foreign fighter siting insufficient Indian aerospace industry, it would be extremely short sighted, it took china less than 10 years to leap frog from 10 to 1 in the manufacturing index, but the foundation was laid in 1979. We laid the foundation in 1983 for our aerospace industry via lca. It would be foolhardy not to reap its benefits via the AMCA.
     
  20. gyannaranjanmohanty

    gyannaranjanmohanty New Member

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    2 Seater variant is most preffred.

    I believe,the 2 seater version is better equipped with another dimension of having a dedicated navigator, who'll take care of the stealth of the aircraft (upper hand in comparison to F22 or F 35). 5th gen fighters are more to rely upon stealth than other variables. India is better to pitch for 2seater variant from very first, otherwise, Russians may loose all the money on the single seater variant.
     
  21. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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    mass production is out of question........they would need to get those prototypes working first........but still assuming what you say happens , they wont produce more than 50 aircrafts and gifting them to PAF would be silly
     

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