Stone pelting at Hanuman Jayanti procession - Sec.144 imposed !

[JBH22]

I was looking at the issue from the law and order point of view and communal stability.

One would rather have communal stability than bloodshed and mayhem on religious competitiveness.

As I look at it, the Govt machinery has failed, the intelligence, the administration, the Ministry and more so, the Police.

I rather have a robust governance than a weak kneed bunch of dithering oaf who cannot do their job for which they are paid through the tax payer's money.

Further, these communal riots lead to destruction of property. Most often than not, it is not repaired nor replaced (like burnt buses etc).

Who suffers?

The law abiding lot amongst the citizenry.

For the lumpen element, it makes no difference.

What about first stopping calling those who don't adhere to your dogmas as infidels and instead accept and cohabit peacefully.

Why is it that only they have problem with others, wherever they go this pattern is established.

Ok assume Hindus are the trouble but if you take france,UK there also its same issue.

Sometimes denying the truth is harmful.

 

[Known_Unknown]

And Muslims are saints, no? You are advocating stone pelters. How many proven cases of that type you have seen ? Do you remember just a month ago Muslims in UP during Ramjan rally showed slogans of "Pakistan Jindabad" still no Hindu thrown a single stone at them, & there is a thread on that here.

No one is a saint, but you seem to believe that all Hindus are saints. If you want proof, you should attend VHP rallies.....they have hate speeches against minorities at every single one of them. Togadia is the Owaisi of the Hindu extremist nutjobs.

Why should Hindus throw stones at anyone who says "Pakistan Zindabad"? If a Buddhist says "Sri Lanka Zindabad", should Hindus throw stones at them too? What if a Christian says "Vatican Zindabad"? Are they personally abusing you or your religion? Do you understand the difference between hate speech and mere sloganeering?

 

[A chauhan]

Re:

There are tens of Hanuman Jayanti processions arranged in each city, not all of them are arranged by VHP or Shiv-Sena , they are arranged by devotees of Hanuman, even I help a Samitee for the same here.

Strange to see if Hindus are attacked people use the bogey of VHP, RSS or Shiv-sena, and if Hindus retaliate, again the same institutions are blamed, what a Pakologic/Farhanologic !!

It's simply a misuse of secularism and a serious law and order situation.

 

[Known_Unknown]

There are tens of Hanuman Jayanti processions arranged in each city, not all of them are arranged by VHP or Shiv-Sena , they are arranged by devotees of Hanuman, even I help a Samitee for the same here.

Strange to see if Hindus are attacked people use the bogey of VHP, RSS or Shiv-sena, and if Hindus retaliate, again the same institutions are blamed, what a Pakologic/Farhanologic !!

Maybe if right-wing apologists like yourself were more forthcoming in supporting bans on these organizations, they would not be used as bogeymen. But you want to have your cake and eat it too-support these rabid fanatics, but hide under the cover of a "local samiti" when their crimes are exposed. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Ray]

What about first stopping calling those who don't adhere to your dogmas as infidels and instead accept and cohabit peacefully.

Why is it that only they have problem with others, wherever they go this pattern is established.

Ok assume Hindus are the trouble but if you take france,UK there also its same issue.

Sometimes denying the truth is harmful.

I added this later.

Their cunning manipulative propaganda to compartmentalise the Indian people into vote banks is the bane of the Indian society, its robustness, its vibrancy, and in the bargain, India remains in a cesspool shrouded under false glimmers of hope with political, catchy, populist slogans!

 

[Ray]

Why should Hindus throw stones at anyone who says "Pakistan Zindabad"? If a Buddhist says "Sri Lanka Zindabad", should Hindus throw stones at them too? What if a Christian says "Vatican Zindabad"? Are they personally abusing you or your religion? Do you understand the difference between hate speech and mere sloganeering?

Not a very strong defence I would say.

I would only like to say it with an excerpt from Sir Walter Scott's poem:

BREATHES there the man with soul so dead,
Who never to himself hath said,
'This is my own, my native land!'

Sloaganeering eulogising foreign countries and entities, is hardly justifiable, even under Mahatma Gandhi's pacifist principles!

 

[A chauhan]

@KU you are getting hillarious I'll answer you later when I will reach home. BTW I contribute to a samitee in my muhalla which arranges Hanuman processions and celebrates Jayanti and which is not VHP RSS or Shiv-Sena backed organization.

 

[Known_Unknown]

Not a very strong defence I would say.

I would only like to say it with an excerpt from Sir Walter Scott's poem:

BREATHES there the man with soul so dead,
Who never to himself hath said,
'This is my own, my native land!'

Is a lack of nationalism among minorities enough reason for Hindus to indulge in stone pelting or other more ghastly crimes against them?

 

[blank_quest]

Am feeling frustrated so came here to comment .... every thing shall pass ,just make the chill

 

[Ray]

Is a lack of nationalism among minorities enough reason for Hindus to indulge in stone pelting or other more ghastly crimes against them?

I was merely answering to your:

Why should Hindus throw stones at anyone who says "Pakistan Zindabad"? If a Buddhist says "Sri Lanka Zindabad", should Hindus throw stones at them too? What if a Christian says "Vatican Zindabad"? Are they personally abusing you or your religion? Do you understand the difference between hate speech and mere sloganeering?

I would hardly be delighted if someone who lives, eats and sleeps in India and enjoys all the benefits and subsidies given by India to go praising another nation!

 

[blank_quest]

Is a lack of nationalism among minorities enough reason for Hindus to indulge in stone pelting or other more ghastly crimes against them?

What proves that the lack of Nationalism is a crime ?, but the modus operandi to show the lack of it when correlates to incitement of public feelings which abhors public peace and harmony is certainly a crime..

 

[Known_Unknown]

I was merely answering to your:

Why should Hindus throw stones at anyone who says "Pakistan Zindabad"? If a Buddhist says "Sri Lanka Zindabad", should Hindus throw stones at them too? What if a Christian says "Vatican Zindabad"? Are they personally abusing you or your religion? Do you understand the difference between hate speech and mere sloganeering?

I would hardly be delighted if someone who lives, eats and sleeps in India and enjoys all the benefits and subsidies given by India to go praising another nation!

Yours was not an answer at all. The question was whether Hindus should throw stones at those who praise other countries, not whether it is preferable to praise one's own nation or not. Of course it is preferable. However one can disagree with someone's viewpoint and still live with it-that's the sign of a mature democracy.

One doesn't have to go on a rampage at the mere hint of "anti-national" sentiment, especially when it's only used to justify one's own hatred of a particular minority.

 

[Known_Unknown]

What proves that the lack of Nationalism is a crime ?, but the modus operandi to show the lack of it when correlates to incitement of public feelings which abhors public peace and harmony is certainly a crime..

In what land? Lalaland? In your dreams? Name one person who has ever been sent to jail for exclaiming "(Insert foreign country here) Zindabad".

 

[blank_quest]

In what land? Lalaland? In your dreams? Name one person who has ever been sent to jail for exclaiming "(Insert foreign country here) Zindabad".

Have you ever heard of Sedition Act and art 124a under IPC ??

 

[Known_Unknown]

Have you ever heard of Sedition Act and art 124 under IPC ??

Again, name one person who has been convicted for shouting "Pakistan (or any other country) Zindabad"!

 

[blank_quest]

Again, name one person who has been convicted for shouting "Pakistan (or any other country) Zindabad"!

It does not requires any shouting. Even keeping materials that "seems" legit to compromise national security can make you go to prison and that's perfect under Art 20 of Indian constitution and does not infringes Art 14, 19 or 21.

 

[Ray]

Yours was not an answer at all. The question was whether Hindus should throw stones at those who praise other countries, not whether it is preferable to praise one's own nation or not. Of course it is preferable. However one can disagree with someone's viewpoint and still live with it-that's the sign of a mature democracy.

One doesn't have to go on a rampage at the mere hint of "anti-national" sentiment, especially when it's only used to justify one's own hatred of a particular minority.

1. No one should throw stones, or incite or undertake mayhem and pillage.

That is what indicates the oft heard cliche 'matured democracy'. Notwithstanding this cliche being bandied so glibly all over by politicians, media et al, one can hardly call India as 'matured'. We tend to fool ourselves by grandiose labels like 'emerging superpower', when if one sees the CNP, one realises that there is no semblance to this hallucinating day dream.

2. Praising one's nation is not the litmus test to nationalism. I concede that. However, I do find praising another nation or entity when one enjoys the bounties of one's land of birth is sheer treachery and height of disloyalty. If one does not like one's own country, it is better to keep shut!

If one can disagree with someone's viewpoint and still live with it and that's the sign of a mature democracy, let us rejoice the fact that we can be kicked around by even island nations as Maldives and happily endorse our impotence and applaud those who praise the 'maturity' of such impotence!

One can be friends to the enemy also - through a lack of character!

 

[Ray]

Even keeping materials that "seems" legit to compromise national security can make you go to prison and that's perfect under Art 20 of Indian constitution and does not infringes Art 14, 19 or 21.

Remember Binayak Sen?

He struts around free and like a peacock in full dance with his plummage dazzling

 

[Known_Unknown]

It does not requires any shouting. Even keeping materials that "seems" legit to compromise national security can make you go to prison and that's perfect under Art 20 of Indian constitution and does not infringes Art 14, 19 or 21.

So obviously you have no answer. There is such a thing as "freedom of speech" and the courts and the law have set the bar pretty high to define what constitutes "hate speech". A mere Zindabad will never get you into prison.

 

[Ray]

Again, name one person who has been convicted for shouting "Pakistan (or any other country) Zindabad"!

Govt impotence does not justify what should happen but not has happened!