Stand with Pakistani Christian Refugees - Hector Aleem

Ray

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After Jinnah died, his sister Fatima asked the court to execute Jinnah's will under Shia Islamic law.[181] This subsequently became the part of argument in Pakistan about Jinnah's religious affiliation. Vali Nasr says Jinnah "was an Ismaili by birth and a Twelver Shiaby confession , though not a religiously observant man." [excerpts from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_Jinnah]

What does "Ismaili by birth and a Twelver Shia by confession" means?
Was Jinnah a Shia or a Sunni?

fter 1947, Pakistan adopted the position of denying that the population of the country was divided between Shias and Sunnis, among others. The census that followed took account of Muslims and non-Muslims but ignored the sects: it was also an indirect pledge of the state that it would not discriminate on the basis of sect. The founder of the state, Mohammed Ali Jinnah, although himself a Twelver Shia after conversion from the Ismaili sect, was wont to describe himself in public as neither a Shia nor a Sunni. His stock answer to a query about his sect was: was Muhammad the Prophet [pbuh] a Shia or a Sunni? Yet when he died in 1948, it was necessary for his sister Miss Fatima Jinnah to declare him a Shia in order to inherit his property as per Jinnah's will. (Sunni law partially rejects the will while Shia law does not.) She filed an affidavit, jointly signed with the Prime Minister of Pakistan, Liaquat Ali Khan, at the Sindh High Court, describing Jinnah as 'Shia Khoja Mohamedan' and praying that his will may be disposed of under Shia inheritance law. The court accepted the petition. But on 6 February 1968, after Miss Jinnah's demise the previous year, her sister Shirin Bai, moved an application at the High Court claiming Miss Jinnah's property under the Shia inheritance law on the ground that the deceased was a Shia.

Given the prestige of Miss Jinnah, she was allowed to dispose of all the property of her brother (as a Sunni she would have title to only one-half) and continued to do so till her death. After her death her sister Shirin Bai arrived in Karachi from Bombay, converted from Ismailism to Twelver Shiism, and laid claim to Jinnah's property. It is at this point that the rest of Jinnah's clan, still following the Ismaili faith, decided to challenge the authenticity of Jinnah's Shia faith. The High Court, which had earlier accepted Miss Jinnah's petition, now balked at the prospect of declaring the Father of the Nation a Shia. Needless to say, the case is still pending in Karachi. But Miss Jinnah's conduct showed that she was an observing Shia and took her brother's conversion to Twelver Shiism seriously. Why had Jinnah converted? It develops that he did it on his secular principle of freedom of religion. According to court's witness, Syed Sharifuddin Pirzada, Jinnah broke from the Ismaili faith in 1901 after his two sisters, Rehmat Bai and Maryam Bai, were married into Sunni Muslim families. It appears that this happened because the Ismaili community objected to these marriages. It also appears that the conversion to Isna-Ashari (Twelver) Shiism happened in Jinnah's immediate family, and not in the families of his two paternal uncles, Walji and Nathoo.

The court proceedings bear evidence of the last rites observed by Miss Jinnah immediately after her brother's death. Witness Syed Anisul Hasnain, a Shia scholar, deposed that he had arranged the ghusl (last bath) of Jinnah on the instructions of Miss Jinnah. He led his namaz-e janaza (funeral prayer) in a room of the GovernorGeneral's House at which such Shia luminaries as Yusuf Haroon, Hashim Raza and Aftab Hatim Alavi were present, while Liaquat Ali Khan, a Sunni, waited outside the room. After the Shia ritual, the body was handed over to the state, and Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani, a breakaway alim of the Deobandi school of thought who supported Jinnah's Pakistan Movement but had recently apostatised the Shias, led his janaza (funeral) according to the Sunni ritual at the ground where a grand mausoleum was later constructed. Other witnesses confirmed that after the demise of Miss Fatima Jinnah, clam and panja (two Shia symbols) were discovered at Mohatta Palace, her residence.

Witnesses appearing at the Sindh High Court in 1968 to affirm Jinnah's sect were Mr I.H. Ispahani, a family friend of Jinnah and his honorary secretary in 1936, and Mr Matloobul Hassan Syed, the Quaid's private secretary from 1940 to 1944. Mr Ispahani revealed that Jinnah had himself told him in 1936 that he and his family had converted to Shiism after his return from England in 1894. He said that Jinnah had married Ruttie Bai, the daughter of a Parsi businessman according to the Shia ritual during which she was represented by a Shia scholar of Bombay, and Jinnah was represented by his Shia friend, Raja Sahib of Mahmudabad. (Raja Sahib was a close friend of Jinnah but differed completely from him in his belief. He was a devout follower of the Twelver Shia faith and ultimately chose to migrate from an independent India to Najaf in Iraq. His friendship with Jinnah has puzzled many. Apparently, the only bond they had was of the Shia faith.) He, however, conceded that Jinnah was opposed in the Bombay elections by a Shia Conference candidate. Ispahani was present when Miss Fatima Jinnah died in Karachi in 1967. He himself arranged the ghusl and janaza for her at Mohatta Palace according to the Shia ritual before handing over the body to the state. Her Sunni namaz-e janaza was held later at the Polo Ground, after which she was buried next to her brother at a spot chosen by Ispahani inside the mausoleum. Ritualistic Shia talgin (last advice to the deceased) was done after her body was lowered into the grave. (Jinnah had arranged for talgin for Ruttie Bai too when she died in 1929).

Fatima Jinnah's own funeral became something of a theatre of the absurd after her friends had given her a Shia funeral before the state could give her a Sunni one. Field Marshal Ayub Khan writes in his Diaries:

11 July 1967: Major General Rafi, my military secretary, returned from Karachi. He had gone there to represent me at Miss Jinnah's funeral. He said that sensible people were happy that the government had given her so much recognition, but generally the people behaved very badly. There was an initial namaz-e janaza at her residence in Mohatta Palace in accordance, presumably, with Shia rites. Then there was to be namaz-e janaza for the public in the Polo Ground. There an argument developed whether this should be led by a Shia or a Sunni. Eventually, Badayuni was put forward to lead the prayer. As soon as he uttered the first sentence the crowd broke in the rear. Thereupon he and the rest ran leaving the coffin high and dry. It was with some difficulty that the coffin was put on a vehicle and taken to the compound of the Quaid's mazar, where she was to be buried. There a large crowd had gathered and demanded to converge on the place of burial. This obviously could not be allowed for lack of space. Thereupon, the students and the goonda elements started pelting stones on the police. They had to resort to lathi charge and tear gas attack. The compound of the mazar was apparently littered with stones, Look at the bestiality and irresponsibility of the people. Even a place like this could not be free of vandalism.
Welcome to The Friday Times - Was Jinnah a Shia or a Sunni? by Khaled Ahmed - Pakistan's First Independent Weekly Paper:www.thefridaytimes.com
 

ghost

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@Neo sir,

Some history lesson for you,of the land you are sitting on

Chronology of Bharatvarsh since its origination

Period
(trillion years ago)

Description


155.521972
(155.521971961600 in 1998)


Birth of Brahma, the first kalp called the Brahm kalp. Brahma meditates and conceives all the Vedas and Puranas with the Grace of Krishn. His homage to Krishn at that time is called the Brahm Sanhita.


155.513332


The second kalp. Brahma creates the brahmand, produces the first ten Rishis. Devas and asuras (gods and demons) are created. They are called the celestial gods and the demons. The main abodes of the gods are: bhu, bhuv, swah (the abode of god Indra), mah, jan, tap and satya (the abode of Brahma). The general term for the abode of the demons is patal lok which is below the celestial abodes of gods and near bhu lok. All these abodes are in a separate space and dimension. Later on the ozone layer is formed on the earth planet. Brahma produces Swayambhuva Manu and Shatroopa, the Rishis on the earth planet conceive the Vedas and Puranas; and gradually the human civilization develops. (There are 14 manvantars in a kalp and in every kalp similar Divine historical events happen. Up till now 18,000 kalpas have already elapsed. One kalp along with Brahma's night is 8,640 million years.)


(million years ago)


(The existing kalp)


1971.961600
(as in 1998)


Beginning of the existing day (kalp) of Brahma and (as in 1998) first manvantar of Swayambhuva Manu and Shatroopa. Swayambhuva Manu had two sons and three daughters. Bhakt Dhruv was from his second son Uttampad, Bhagwan Kapil was from his daughter Deohooti and Bhakt Prahlad was in the family succession of his first son, Priyavrat.


1663.3902


Beginning of the second manvantar of Swarochish Manu.


1354.8188


Beginning of the third manvantar of Uttam Manu.


1046.2474


Beginning of the fourth manvantar of Tamas Manu.


737.676


Beginning of the fifth manvantar of Raivat Manu.


429.1045


Beginning of the sixth manvantar of Chakchush Manu.


120.5331


Beginning of the seventh manvantar of Vaivaswat Manu.


(million years ago)


(The existing manvantar)


120.5331*


Beginning of the existing (seventh) manvantar of Vaivaswat Manu who had ten sons and one daughter. Surya Vansh starts from his elder son Ikchvaku and Chandra Vansh starts from his daughter Ela. Bhakt Ambarish was in the 3rd generation of his son Nabhag.


57.024


Emperor Mandhata's rule in Bharatvarsh.


39.744


Descension of Parashuram.


18.144


Descension of Bhagwan Ram.

(BC)

(From 3228 BC onward)


3228**


Descension of Bhagwan Krishn.


3139


The Mahabharat war (lasted for 18 days). Beginning of Brihadrath dynasty of Magadh, and Yudhishthir dynasty of Hastinapur. (Brihadrath dynasty starts with Marjari so it is also called the dynasty of Marjari family.)

*The Puranas mention more than 50 important personalities of Surya Vansh who were between Ikchvaku and Bhagwan Ram in 102 million years.
**According to the "Surya Siddhant" the astrologers have calculated that kaliyug started on the afternoon of 17th February, 3102 BC. In the Bhagwatam, Brahma tells in round figures that Krishn remained on this earth planet for 125 years.



Accordingly, if you add 125 years to February, 3102, it comes to February 3227 BC. But Krishn's descension was in the Rohini nakchatra (asterism) of the 8th waning moon midnight of bhadon (August) which is about seven months earlier. Thus, His descension date is 3228 BC and He stayed on the earth planet for 125 years and about 7 months.


3102

Ascension of Bhagwan Krishn and the beginning of kaliyug.


2139


End of Brihadrath dynasty (21 kings for 1,000 years).


2139-2001


Pradyot dynasty (5 kings for 138 years).


2001-1641


Shishunag dynasty (10 kings for 360 years).


1894-1814


Gautam Buddh.


1641-1541


Nandas (Mahapadm Nand and his 8 sons for 100 years).


1541-1241


Maurya dynasty (10 kings for about 300 years).


1541-1507


Chandragupt Maurya (34 years).


1507-1479


Bindusar (28 years).


1479-1443


Ashokvardhan (36 years).


1241-784


Shung and Kanua dynasty (14 kings for 457 years).


784-328


Andhra dynasty (30 kings for 456 years).


509-477


Jagadguru Shankaracharya.


328-83


Gupt dynasty (7 kings for 245 years).

(Chandragupt Vijayaditya, 328-321 BC, and Alexander's invasion was
326 BC.)

(Samudragupt Ashokaditya Priyadarshin, or Ashok the Great,
321-270 BC.)


102 BC-15 AD

Vikramaditya, established the Vikram era in 57 BC.

(AD)

25-85

Shalivahan (ruled for 60 years), established Shalivahan Shak era in 78 AD.


85-1192

There were several kingdoms of Rajpoot kings all over India. They ruled for 1,107 years.


1192-1757

In 1192, Mohammad Gori invaded Delhi (Hastinapur) the second time, defeated and killed Prithiviraj Chauhan, and became the king. Since then several dynasties of Muslims ruled India for 565 years, then,


1757-1947


In 1757, English regime was established in Bengal. British ruled India for 190 years.


1947


In 1947, India got Independence.




Now either you are pure blood and ancestor of the lot of Mohammed Gori,In such case please be thankful to Bharat which gave your ancestor and you a land where you can live or return to your real land" ghor " located in central Afganisthan.And if you have a mix ancestor heritage with real Bharat blood ,then show some respect to your mother land.

Regarding your theory that there was no Bharat

According to the scriptural description of the brahmand the entire earth planet is called Bharatvarsh, but particularly the area of the continent that lies south of the Himalayas is called Bharatvarsh. It is also called Aryavart. The inhabitants of Aryavart are called the Aryans as referred to in the Rigved. Thus, the words Bhartiya or Aryans were both used for the inhabitants of Bharatvarsh or Aryavart, however, the words Bhartiya and Bharatvarsh were more popular.

Persians used to call 'Hindu' for the Sindhu river, which was a localized version of the word Sindhu. When Muslims invaded Bharatvarsh from the west (which was the land of the Sindhu river) they started calling the inhabitants of Bharatvarsh 'the Hindus.' Accordingly, the country of the Hindus was called Hindustan by them which means:

the place ( sthan)
of the Hindus ( Hindu)
For speaking convenience the colloquial form of the word 'sthan' became 'stan' and in this way the word Hindustan (Hindu + stan) came into being. The Greeks used to call 'Indu' for 'Hindu,' because there is no letter 'h' in the Greek alphabet.

When English people came, for their convenience, they altered the names of quite a few places and also some of the rivers. They called 'Indus' for the Sindhu river and, accordingly, 'India' for Hindustan or Bharatvarsh. Thus, the words Hindu and India became popular.


Please show some respect to your motherland "Bharat" and if it is not your motherland than show some respect because it adopted your ancestor and you as its own part.
 
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Ashutosh Lokhande

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@Neo sir,

Some history lesson for you,of the land you are sitting on

Bhartiya Chronology 3228 BC - 1947(BC)
3228Descension of Bhagwan Krishn
3139The Mahabharat War
Start of Brihadrath dynasty of Magadh
Start of Yudhisthir dynasty of Hastinapur
3102Ascension of Bhagwan Krishn
Start of kaliyug
2139End of Brihadrath dynasty
2139-2001Pradyot dynasty
2001-1641Shishunag dynasty
1894-1814Gautam Buddh
1641-1541Nandas
1541-1241Maurya dynasty
1541-1507Chandragupt Maurya
1507-1479Bindusar
1479-1443Ashokvardhan
1241-784Shung and Kanau dynasty
784-328Andhra dynasty
509-477Jagadguru Shankaracharya
328-83Gupt dynasty
328-321Chandragupt Vijayaditya
326Alexander's invasion
321-270Samudragupt Ashokaditya Priyadarshin, or
Ashok the Great
102BC-15ADVikramaditya, established Vikram era in 57 BC

(AD)
25-85Shalivahan, established Shalivahan Shak era in 78 AD
85-1192There were several kingdoms of Rajpoot kings all over
India. They ruled for 1,107 years.
1192-1757In 1192, Mohammad Gori invaded Delhi (Hastinapur) the
second time, defeated and killed Prithviraj Chauhan, and
became the king. Since then several dynasties of
Muslims ruled India for 565 years.
1757-1947In 1757 English regime was established in Bengal.
British ruled India for 190 years.
1947India got Independence


Now either you are pure blood and ancestor of the lot of Mohammed Gori,In such case please be thankful to Bharat which gave your ancestor and you a land where you can live or return to your real land" ghor " located in central Afganisthan.And if you have a mix ancestor heritage with real Bharat blood ,then show some respect to your mother land.

Regarding your theory that there was no Bharat

According to the scriptural description of the brahmand the entire earth planet is called Bharatvarsh, but particularly the area of the continent that lies south of the Himalayas is called Bharatvarsh. It is also called Aryavart. The inhabitants of Aryavart are called the Aryans as referred to in the Rigved. Thus, the words Bhartiya or Aryans were both used for the inhabitants of Bharatvarsh or Aryavart, however, the words Bhartiya and Bharatvarsh were more popular.

Persians used to call 'Hindu' for the Sindhu river, which was a localized version of the word Sindhu. When Muslims invaded Bharatvarsh from the west (which was the land of the Sindhu river) they started calling the inhabitants of Bharatvarsh 'the Hindus.' Accordingly, the country of the Hindus was called Hindustan by them which means:

the place(sthan)
of the Hindus(Hindu)
For speaking convenience the colloquial form of the word 'sthan' became 'stan' and in this way the word Hindustan (Hindu + stan) came into being. The Greeks used to call 'Indu' for 'Hindu,' because there is no letter 'h' in the Greek alphabet.

When English people came, for their convenience, they altered the names of quite a few places and also some of the rivers. They called 'Indus' for the Sindhu river and, accordingly, 'India' for Hindustan or Bharatvarsh. Thus, the words Hindu and India became popular.


Please show some respect to your motherland "Bharat" and if it is not your motherland than show some respect because it adopted your ancestor and you as its own part.
Very well put. I just wished you strted your chronology order from dashrat then bharat then ram then so on and so forth...
That will instill some respect in neo about the oldest and rich civilization of akhand bharat.
@Neo am sorry to say but the fact is when you say india was created after 1947 it is you who is propogating false information and refuse to accept the truth.
 
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Neo

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No one in Pakistan cares if Jinnah was a shiah or sunni. Even after serius and ambitious attempts by foreign electronic media to raise this sensitive issue in Pakistan to create communal divide failed miserably to get momentum and died like a fart as they deserve.

Maybe Indians should worry less about Shiah or Sunni believes of Jinnah and concentrate more on their huge gay community. Afterall some of founding leaders of present day India were alledgely gay.

Was Gandhi gay? Intimate letters go on display in India - Telegraph

...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-Intimate-letters-go-on-display-in-India.html

...

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n..._xOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=MhUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2632,2281009
 
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ladder

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No one in Pakistan cares if Jinnah was a shiah or sunni. Even after serius and ambitious attempts by foreign electronic media to raise this sensitive issue in Pakistan to create communal divide failed miserably to get momentum and died like a fartas they deserve.

Maybe Indians should worry less about Shiah or Sunni believes of Jinnah and concentrate more on their huge gay community. Afterall some of founding leaders of present day India were alledgely gay.

Was Gandhi gay? Intimate letters go on display in India - Telegraph

...

Was Gandhi gay? Intimate letters go on display in India - Telegraph
LOL, expected from you, couldn't counter on the merits of the case so had to bring diversion. But would we fall for it?
 

Srinivas_K

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No one in Pakistan cares if Jinnah was a shiah or sunni. Even after serius and ambitious attempts by foreign electronic media to raise this sensitive issue in Pakistan to create communal divide failed miserably to get momentum and died like a fartas they deserve.

Maybe Indians should worry less about Shiah or Sunni believes of Jinnah and concentrate more on their huge gay community. Afterall some of founding leaders of present day India were alledgely gay.

Was Gandhi gay? Intimate letters go on display in India - Telegraph

...

Was Gandhi gay? Intimate letters go on display in India - Telegraph
Gandhi is a man a human, Indians are not paranoid like muslims who will go on rampage for silly reasons.

You people view every great man in Muhammed's lens, that is a conservative view.

All Indians care is Gandhi lead the movement with little blood shed and achieved his objectives.
 

ladder

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No one in Pakistan cares if Jinnah was a shiah or sunni. Even after serius and ambitious attempts by foreign electronic media to raise this sensitive issue in Pakistan to create communal divide failed miserably to get momentum and died like a fart as they deserve.

Maybe Indians should worry less about Shiah or Sunni believes of Jinnah and concentrate more on their huge gay community. Afterall some of founding leaders of present day India were alledgely gay.

Was Gandhi gay? Intimate letters go on display in India - Telegraph

...

Was Gandhi gay? Intimate letters go on display in India - Telegraph

...

New Straits Times - Google News Archive Search
Now, tell me if Jinnah was a Shia or Sunni or Ismaili bother you, why does it matter to your state about who is a Ahmadi?
 

thethinker

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No one in Pakistan cares if Jinnah was a shiah or sunni. Even after serius and ambitious attempts by foreign electronic media to raise this sensitive issue in Pakistan to create communal divide failed miserably to get momentum and died like a fart as they deserve.

Maybe Indians should worry less about Shiah or Sunni believes of Jinnah and concentrate more on their huge gay community. Afterall some of founding leaders of present day India were alledgely gay.

Was Gandhi gay? Intimate letters go on display in India - Telegraph

...

Was Gandhi gay? Intimate letters go on display in India - Telegraph

...

New Straits Times - Google News Archive Search
Futile attempt to divert the thread.

Just a reminder anyway :

1. This thread was started by a Pakistani minority to highlight communal divide in Pakistan.

2. So your claims of "creating communal divide in Pakistan" hold no merit as there are issues like minority persecution that run deep and are of serious nature than that of Mr.Jinnah. Those have already created a vast divide.

On an off topic note, do you keep binders or playbook that cover various forum discussion scenarios? This is the umpteenth time that you have attempted a diversion when everything you say or claim no matter how delusional it is falls flat and is beyond the point of any sane defendibility. :)

Just wondering.
 

Neo

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@Neo sir,

Some history lesson for you,of the land you are sitting on

Bhartiya Chronology 3228 BC - 1947(BC)
3228 Descension of Bhagwan Krishn
3139 The Mahabharat War
Start of Brihadrath dynasty of Magadh
Start of Yudhisthir dynasty of Hastinapur
3102 Ascension of Bhagwan Krishn
Start of kaliyug
2139 End of Brihadrath dynasty
2139-2001 Pradyot dynasty
2001-1641 Shishunag dynasty
1894-1814 Gautam Buddh
1641-1541 Nandas
1541-1241 Maurya dynasty
1541-1507 Chandragupt Maurya
1507-1479 Bindusar
1479-1443 Ashokvardhan
1241-784 Shung and Kanau dynasty
784-328 Andhra dynasty
509-477 Jagadguru Shankaracharya
328-83 Gupt dynasty
328-321 Chandragupt Vijayaditya
326 Alexander's invasion
321-270 Samudragupt Ashokaditya Priyadarshin, or
Ashok the Great
102BC-15AD Vikramaditya, established Vikram era in 57 BC

(AD)
25-85 Shalivahan, established Shalivahan Shak era in 78 AD
85-1192 There were several kingdoms of Rajpoot kings all over
India. They ruled for 1,107 years.
1192-1757 In 1192, Mohammad Gori invaded Delhi (Hastinapur) the
second time, defeated and killed Prithviraj Chauhan, and
became the king. Since then several dynasties of
Muslims ruled India for 565 years.
1757-1947 In 1757 English regime was established in Bengal.
British ruled India for 190 years.
1947 India got Independence


Now either you are pure blood and ancestor of the lot of Mohammed Gori,In such case please be thankful to Bharat which gave your ancestor and you a land where you can live or return to your real land" ghor " located in central Afganisthan.And if you have a mix ancestor heritage with real Bharat blood ,then show some respect to your mother land.

Regarding your theory that there was no Bharat

According to the scriptural description of the brahmand the entire earth planet is called Bharatvarsh, but particularly the area of the continent that lies south of the Himalayas is called Bharatvarsh. It is also called Aryavart. The inhabitants of Aryavart are called the Aryans as referred to in the Rigved. Thus, the words Bhartiya or Aryans were both used for the inhabitants of Bharatvarsh or Aryavart, however, the words Bhartiya and Bharatvarsh were more popular.

Persians used to call 'Hindu' for the Sindhu river, which was a localized version of the word Sindhu. When Muslims invaded Bharatvarsh from the west (which was the land of the Sindhu river) they started calling the inhabitants of Bharatvarsh 'the Hindus.' Accordingly, the country of the Hindus was called Hindustan by them which means:

the place ( sthan)
of the Hindus ( Hindu)
For speaking convenience the colloquial form of the word 'sthan' became 'stan' and in this way the word Hindustan (Hindu + stan) came into being. The Greeks used to call 'Indu' for 'Hindu,' because there is no letter 'h' in the Greek alphabet.

When English people came, for their convenience, they altered the names of quite a few places and also some of the rivers. They called 'Indus' for the Sindhu river and, accordingly, 'India' for Hindustan or Bharatvarsh. Thus, the words Hindu and India became popular.


Please show some respect to your motherland "Bharat" and if it is not your motherland than show some respect because it adopted your ancestor and you as its own part.
Irrelevant, none of these dynaties comes even close to present India just as present day Iran or Syria are not the same countries under Medo-Persian Empire or under Assyria.

Adam, first human creation of God according to all Abrahamic believes alledgely set foot on Sri Lanka.
Does it mean Jews, Christians or Muslims should claim it since their prophet lived there first?

Its insane...
 
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thethinker

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Gandhi is a man a human, Indians are not paranoid like muslims who will go on rampage for silly reasons.

You people view every great man in Muhammed's lens, that is a conservative view.

All Indians care is Gandhi lead the movement with little blood shed and achieved his objectives.
Don't fall for the flame bait. :)
 

ladder

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Irrelevant, none of these dynaties comes even close to present India just as present day Iran or Syria are not the same countries under Medo-Persian Empire or under Assyria.

Adam, first human creation of God according to all Abrahamic believes alledgely set foot on Sri Lanka.
Does it mean Jews, Christians or Muslims should claim it since their prophet lived there first?

Its insane...
Just done to prove that indeed it was insane.

Because you were trying to over impose a belief of existence of a 'nation state' on a geographical land onto a time period where there was no concept of it then. When British came to India there was no concept of nation state, where will you find one?

The is no answer to flawed logic. There wasn't a nation state called India doesn't mean there wasn't India.
 

Neo

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LOL, expected from you, couldn't counter on the merits of the case so had to bring diversion. But would we fall for it?
Diversion and hi-jack is what you guys specialise at to find a way to have a troll feast and bash Pakistan.
But you can't take critic from others.

You had no problem politicising the thread, debating Jinnah and even mocking with him being a shiah or a sunni.

All is well that serves your cause right?
Bloody double standards...
 

ladder

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Diversion and hi-jack is what you guys specialise at to find a way to have a troll feast and bash Pakistan.
But you can't take critic from others.

You had no problem politicising the thread, debating Jinnah and even mocking with him being a shiah or a sunni.

All is well that serves your cause right?
Bloody double standards...
Take it easy Jack! Don't get angry enough to send me a E-slap over PM.
 

thethinker

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Diversion and hi-jack is what you guys specialise at to find a way to have a troll feast and bash Pakistan.
But you can't take critic from others.

You had no problem politicising the thread, debating Jinnah and even mocking with him being a shiah or a sunni.

All is well that serves your cause right?
Bloody double standards...
So you are crying about persecution in DFI? :rolleyes:

Why not ask your fellow countryman who started this thread about ways to make Pak better for minorities rather than blame the "trolls" here or keep defending the undefendable about your nation.

As a "liberal" Paki, you surely can make a difference even if you never really lived in Pakistan!
 

Srinivas_K

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those are accusations with out proof. They may have some reasons like conservative society like that, to not to allow it in the market.

Compare it with Muhammed's cartoon row , the destruction of properties, killings, threats etc...etc...,

Clearly you people demand respect from other religious people but when others don't , you go on rampage .... a cult quality not a peace seeking religion.

Since there are flaws in Muhammeds life like marrying Ayesha when she is 7 years old (when seen based on modern ethics), you people think degrading Gandhi by accusing him as a seeker of sexual pleasures will make it even.

Fact is Muslims who go on rampage for silly things are not the same as level headed people who follow Gandhi.
 
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Neo

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Now, tell me if Jinnah was a Shia or Sunni or Ismaili bother you, why does it matter to your state about who is a Ahmadi?
Shiah and Sunni are recognised as muslims in Pakistan because they both follow and respect the fundamental beliefs and the pillars of Islam.
Ahmadi's believes can not be backed by the Holy Quran which disqualifies them from being muslims.

Deny Abraham and Moses and tou disqualify to be called a jew. Deny Jesus and you are not Christian. Therefor deny Mohammed and you will not be considered a muslim.

Simple as that.
 

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