Sri Sathya Sai Baba is No More

[johnee]

All scriptures emphatically declare the importance of a Guru. A guru has been placed on par(and infact above the Gods themselves).
Guru brahma, guru vishnu, guru devo maheshwarah
guru sakshat para brahma, tasmai sri guruve namah.

There is also a famous quote," If Shiva(God) is angered by you, you can be saved by Guru. But if Guru is angered by you, even Shiva will not save you..."

It has been said that Scriptures have to be understood via Guru, without Guru, the scriptures cannot be understood properly. The meditation and its methods are also be taken from someone who has already mastered them(Guru), otherwise, the meditations are futile.

To believe that an individual himself can somehow discover God, without the help of Guru is declared by all scriptures as foolishness. `Shraddha' is the first pre-condition is all spiritual quests. And `Shraddha' is defined as one's strong belief in the instructions of scriptures and Guru. One who lacks in `Shraddha' is lost. `Shraddavan labhate gyanam'. Gyanam, here, is defined as the realisation of one's innate Godliness.
The chief opponents of `Shraddha' are Ego(Ahankara) and wrong reasoning(durbuddhi). These both stop a person from placing a belief in Guru's or scripture's words.

Adi Shankara-Acharaya had spelled out two requisites for someone to be qualified as a Guru:
a) He should be Brahma Gyani, jivan mukta, ...etc( a realised soul)
b) He should be thinking of welfare of his disciple.

Scriptures also predict that in Kali Yuga(the present yuga), many mischievious Sanyasis will delude people from righteous path. So, people need to be careful while choosing the Guru. The best thing is to stay in the traditional path setup by Adi Shankara. Adi Shankara established 4 Peethas
a) Sharada Peetha at Sringeri in south india
b) Kalika Peetha at Dwaraka in western india
c) Govardhana Peetha at Puri in eastern india
d) jyotih Peetha at Badri in northern india

He annointed his primary disciples, namely, Sureshwara-Acharya, Padmapada-Acharya, Hastamalaka-Acharya and Totaka-Acharya as the heads of these peethas. These heads were reffered to reverentially as `Shankaracharya's and `Jagadguru's. These four peethas along with Kanchi Peetha and their Guru paramparas are authentic and safe to follow.

 

[JBH22]

Its not just the recent decades,Hindus have always held high regard for the spiritual guru.Guru sakshaat parabrahma,Guru is the supreme brahman manifest.haven't the scriptures declared that only a 'Guru' is the surest means for an individual to receive jeevanmukthi........To seek 'God',seek a 'Guru'.

Agreed but still a Guru with a trust fund with assets worth USD$ 9 billion isn't it weird to you?
I'm Hindu but i prefer to pray rather than go to some guru between what's this trend of god reincarnation that happens only in India.

Sai Baba- Reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba
Amma- Reincarnation of Durga mata

PS: A so called living god should not die of diseases

 

[S.A.T.A]

How will the individual even attempt to make the journey of realizing the 'self',if he doesn't even know of this elf and what the this 'realization' entails.An individual trying to realize his 'self' is like the men for the story of 'elephant and five blind men',each individual,in the absence of someone to help them under the reality of the elephant,is forced to derive his own conclusion.Its the prevalence of avidya(ignorance)which force the individual to seek the 'self' beyond his ignorance,as such how can he be sure his realization not product of his own persistence ignorance,that's where the guru lends assistance.


The spiritual journey of self-relization is like climbing a steep mountain,each individual has to make the journey himself,no doubt,but a guru is similar to someone who has already mounted the summit and thence in better position to guide the seeker at the foothill to succeed the finally making the climb,a guru foretells the seeker if the path he has taken will get him to the summit,if there is any hiccup on the way,if there is he might suggest you some course correction,sometimes the climb is steep and long and sheer exhaustion might force the seeker to give up the effort,the guru encourages you to continue and reassure you that the end is near.....

There is always the possibility that you might be taken for ride by a charlatan,but unless you make the effort to seek a guru how will you even know if he is charlatan or a realized one.If you are not satisfied with a guru,go find another.Swami Vivekananda wouldn't have ended up at the gardens of the Dakshineswar temple,at the feet of Paramahamsa,if he was afraid his years long search for a guru would end in disappointment,or the one he meets is not a realized soul.Infact the scriptures says finding and receiving the grace of a Guru is the forts and most important step in the goal of self-realization.

Patanajali in his Yogasutra says thus:

The Supreme Lord is that special person
who is not affected by troubles, actions, developments
or by subconscious motivations.

There, in Him, is found the unsurpassed origin of all knowledge.

He, this particular person, being unconditioned by time
is the guru even of the ancient teachers,
the authorities from before.

Patanajali(verses 24,25 and 26 of the Yogasutra) here equates this being as the guru who revealed the sruti's to the ancient seers.

The scriptures and an enlightened guru are essential for the goal of realizing the Atman(self).Atma-bodha(realization of the self) cannot be undertaken if the individual does not have the Atma-gnana(knowledge of the self).The knowledge of the self,the knowledge of becoming aware of the nature of this ignorance and the deliverance from this ignorance,comes from the scriptures and the Upadesa of an enlightened one.

Very often its easier to think that the journey of self realization must be made by the individual himself,very truly it is,however this journey is not to a known destination,nor something you would by instinct recognize if you were to reach there,hence the guru is your constant sherpa,you simply cant do without one.

 

[johnee]

Agreed but still a Guru with a trust fund with assets worth USD$ 9 billion isn't it weird to you?
I'm Hindu but i prefer to pray rather than go to some guru between what's this trend of god reincarnation that happens only in India.

Sai Baba- Reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba
Amma- Reincarnation of Durga mata

PS: A so called living god should not die of diseases

Are we talking about Gurus or Reincarnations or Sanyasis?

Guru:
Guru can have bank balances or large assets. That means nothing, the relevant point is whether he has the qualities to guide his disciple...

Reincarnation:
Every individual goes through reincarnations or rebirths(not necessarily in the same race). One who is born as human can be born as a pig and vice versa...

God descends onto the world to punish the wicked and bless the noble. This descent is called as 'Avatar'. Sometimes God, sends prophets to guide people. These prophets are called `Avadhoota'. Both Avatar and Avadhoota have divine attributes. Of late, there is a trend that many people are claiming to be Avatars or Avadhootas of Gods by showing some tricks. Such tricksters cannot be trusted. Even mere presence of occult powers(Siddhis) cannot be mark of an Avatar or Avadhoota. One can take it for granted that we will see no Avatar or Avadhoota in our lifetime.

Sanyasis:
Anyone can become a sanyasi. Infact, everyone is supposed to become a Sanyasi after he has retired from household burdens. A sanyasi must wander and beg for alms. Obviously, they cannot own any assets. A sanyasi must continually engage in Vedantic thoughts...

Jagadgurus:
Jagadgurus are Pontiffs of the Peethas established by Adi Shankara. Even though, they are Sanyasis, they are entrusted with the responsibility of protecting Sanatan Dharma. And hence, they own assets to propagate the Dharma.

Realised Souls:
These realised souls can be in any manner they want. Sometimes their actions can be weird and hence, ordinary people should not take them as role models.

Babas:
Babas are supposed to be Fakirs. Some Babas may be realised souls, and people go to them for Ashirwaad.


In case, of Sathya Sai Baba, I dont trust him because he claims to be God...Not someone who realised God, but a direct avatar of God. Also, I think he just employs stage magic to fool people.

Of course, there are also accounts of people who say that they were cured by his ash. Maybe he has some siddhis...But God....no way.

 

[S.A.T.A]

Agreed but still a Guru with a trust fund with assets worth USD$ 9 billion isn't it weird to you? I'm Hindu but i prefer to pray rather than go to some guru between what's this trend of god reincarnation that happens only in India. Sai Baba- Reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba Amma- Reincarnation of Durga mata PS: A so called living god should not die of diseases

Let the question of relevance of Guru not merely resticted to sai baba or anybody else,let it embrace all spiritual pursuit in general.What difference does it make of your guru,your spiritual guide,lived in a multi million dollar mansion ina city or an obscure hermitage in jungle,does that make any difference to your spiritual pursuit and where and how this particular provides you vital instruction.Surely there are crooks in the garb of guru out to make a fast buck,but that is where your discretion must play its role.

Since Johnee has brought up the matter of instructions Adi Guru Shankaracharya on spiritual matters,The Adi Guru identifies,among various attributes required for an individual pursuing the goal of Atma-Bodha(self Realization), Viveka(discrimination)as one of the most important.The Individual at all time must possess the capacity to discriminate the real from the unreal,knowledge from ignorance.This capacity aides you in your spiritual pursuit whether its your meditation,certian transcendental experiences,or placing in perspective choosing a Guru or following his spiritual instruction.

Once you are satisfied with the genuine qualities of your Guru,why would that individual have any doubts regarding his spiritual master.Does the fact that Jesus Christ performed certain acts of miracles,which to our modern rational mind as tricks,in any way reduce his status as one of greatest spiritual leaders in History and a spiritual anchor to hundreds of millions,you might say that was Jesus and this is some Baba,but is that really so.

Iam sure there is unlikely to be many Hindus who will doubt Sri Ramakrishna as one of the foremost Hindus spiritual leaders of our times,or for that matte his disciple Vivekananda as the spiritual voice that awakened India's consciousness from its centuries long deep slumber.Swami Abhedananda another important disciple of Sri Ramakrishna quotes Paramahamsa saying "He who was Rama, Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, and Chaitanya is now in this body as Sri Ramakrishna."

Would we fault Paramahamsa also for claiming to be an avatara,probably not,because on hindsight we know these old master were established spiritual authorities and as such we are ready gloss over certain things attributed to them,that we perceive as 'inconceivable'.The problem is our perception,which is always limited to our intellect and veneer of rationalism that we encapsulate it with.

Death is only our perception of the ceasing of the functioning of the body,we perceive its 'my' death because we cannot conceive our 'existence ' of our 'being other that this body.A Guru has realized this is only a illusion and helps others realize it too,the day that happens,Guru,disciples,god all are one.This is the core of our Hindu philosophy.

 

[JBH22]

My point is simple given the number of fake sadhus or gurus its better we do not put a human being on a pedestal and treat him like god and i say again Sai Baba i'm quite dubious about him a holy man doesn't die with USD $9 billion worth of assets.Instead i would have thought a holy man would have the philosophy of simple living and high thinking.

 

[johnee]

My point is simple given the number of fake sadhus or gurus its better we do not put a human being on a pedestal and treat him like god and i say again Sai Baba i'm quite dubious about him a holy man doesn't die with USD $9 billion worth of assets.Instead i would have thought a holy man would have the philosophy of simple living and high thinking.

Holiness may or may not be absolute. A person more holier than us, is enough to inspire and guide us. We must remember that even a Gyani is a human being and displays some habits that were acquired before his realisation. This is mentioned in the Yoga Vashishta and other such authoritative scriptures. Therefore, merely, because a Gyani displays human traits, do not devalue his Gyan/realisation.

Even if a person, maynot be a Gyani, he can still be on his path towards the realisation and at more advanced stage than ourselves. Such people need not be scorned at, just because they are not completely `holy'.
A 10th class student can guide a first class student. Just because a person has reached 10th class does not mean, he stops being ignorant. Similarly, masses must respect great men and follow their lead without judging these men by extreme standards...

I can understand your point of view, for I held similar view not long ago. But, eventually, we must understand that God will not descend in his divine form to guide us. He will send us to proper Gurus. We being human beings will get human Gurus. If we are afraid to surrender before Guru out of ego or other fears, then ultimately how can we realise God. Mere casual belief in God, as if it were a side-show to life is not going to get us far in spirituality.

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa used to narrate a story to emphasize the importance of Guru. The story goes like this:
Once there were a Guru and his disciple. The disciple had great devotion towards Guru. One day, the Guru was on one bank of a river and the disciple was on another bank. The Guru beckoned the disciple to come towards him. The Guru meant the disciple to cross the river on a ferry and come to him. But the disciple, who was highly devoted towards the Guru, took the words of the Guru literally, and tried to cross the river on foot. Magically, he walked on the water and reached the other side. Everyone, including the Guru, was astonished at the miracle and asked the disciple how he did it. Disciple replied that it was the Guru's grace that accomplished this task. While walking on water, he chanted the Guru's holy name, and hence he did not drown. Hearing this, the Guru was amazed. He concluded that he must have become very powerful and hence merely chanting his name had made his disciple walk on water. So, immediately, he also tried to cross the river while chanting his own name. But the Guru drowned.

The moral of the story: It is not the Guru's greatness that is important. It is the devotion of disciple in his Guru that achieves miracles and takes him onward in spirituality.

Sathya Sai may have been an imposter. But nonetheless he was beacon in the treacherous path of spirituality for a sea of human beings. Without the presence of such people, more and more souls would have been harvested...