Something else made in China – Chinese GDP

JustForLaughs

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Your link states:



It is all China increase in all cities?

What's the increase in the Villages, especially the one in the West of the coastal belt and in the mountainous areas?
typically a statement like that imply they did an average of Chinese cities.

urban = cities
rural = would include villages

well, increase in disposable income is countered if inflation keeps increasing. probably only purchase the same amount or even less despite more to spend.
 

houde10000

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Sorry, indian friends, chinese make too many fraud things, even their GDP, so don't even care about that, just let chinese play with their own shit. Indian now is the third or fourth large economic nation, and with the highest increasing rate 9%? forget chinese cooked rate 10%, that just shit, I believe India will be the No. 1 around 2025, I have already warned my american collegue to pay attention on India, not China!! India is the only county has possibility to overstep USA. China is dictatorship nation, no real future, nobody need waste time to care China.
 

Ray

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Sorry, indian friends, chinese make too many fraud things, even their GDP, so don't even care about that, just let chinese play with their own shit. Indian now is the third or fourth large economic nation, and with the highest increasing rate 9%? forget chinese cooked rate 10%, that just shit, I believe India will be the No. 1 around 2025, I have already warned my american collegue to pay attention on India, not China!! India is the only county has possibility to overstep USA. China is dictatorship nation, no real future, nobody need waste time to care China.
The issue is not which country is #1 or not.

And I daresay, any Indian poster feels that India will be #1 in 2025. I don't think anyone here is wafting in a pink cloud of unmitigated jingoism. They know their onions.

Compare it with your post. Is there nothing wrong in China? Are the statistics totally correct and there is no fudging? Maybe. So explain how there is no fudging and not lace posts with irrelevant sarcasm, because we here sure would like to know with genuine interest as to what is the correct picture, more so, because China is a surging country, which started with near identical disadvantages .

One with democracy and one with Communism.

Indians are interested in knowing about China, its pluses and the minuses. Its system, its people, etc so that they can compare and check what makes India disadvantageous in progress.

Prima facie, there is no doubt that China has progressed immensely and without doubt, is ahead of India in many fields.Therefore, when one learns of 'cooking books', it intrigues.

Hence, the debate.

As far as the Chinese posters are concerned, there are only a handful who honestly inform about the affairs of their country.

Hence, the scepticism.

Check the threads here. Indians are not afraid of debating what is wrong with their country and rarely would you find posts clouding issues with misplaced jingoism.
 
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Ray

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I have already warned my american collegue to pay attention on India, not China!! India is the only county has possibility to overstep USA. China is dictatorship nation, no real future, nobody need waste time to care China.
The Americans are more sceptical about China than any other country in the world.

China is in competition to overhaul the USA and not India.

Therefore, maybe they would not heed your warning.

More so, since the issue of overtaking (overstepping as per you) the USA, is but a pipedream!
 

Iamanidiot

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The biggest problem it is hard to figure out what is the truth and what is the lie in China.There are a lot of illusions and lies mixed with achievements that one has to scrutinise every inch of information that comes out very carefully.The Chinese are deriving growth of unecessary construction and too much infrastructure.Infrastructure is needed but growth derived on infra is funny.

Ray sir they are good putting things in action but this isn't sustainable.India's growth is more organic because infrastructure is done because of demand but not for statistics.The CCP are thorughly screwing the environment and landscape of China.Sustainability and carrying capacity are words that are not present in CCP's dictionary it looks
 

cir

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2010 Made In China

[video]http://player.56.com/v_57572851.swf[/video]
 
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Ray

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The biggest problem it is hard to figure out what is the truth and what is the lie in China.
While one would not to take the western commentary to be without bias, the Chinese are also not very helpful on knowing what is the reality since there is so evident an effort to sugarcoat or totally obfuscate the issues.

That is what perplexes.
 

longwolf

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I really feel you are so humor, which goverment need 50 million PC ? Actually most of those are bought by normal citizens, like me, I have two notebooks, and my salary is under average.
 

neoshangh

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Honestly speaking,I donot believe Chinese govenment's statistics.But Chinese GDP is not that fake,you can compare it with many NGO's and World Bank's reports on that topic.

While,in this thread of Lichangchun,It is true that provinces incline to make fake statistics to show their "progress",but it does nothing to do with Chinese GDP.Province statistics are not the original souce of Chinese GDP.
 

bigtiger

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2010 Made In China

[video]http://player.56.com/v_57572851.swf[/video]
For people who cannot read Chinese, this video is a ranking of Top 7 Achievements of China in 2010:

7. Beidou-2 Guiding System: Equivalent of GPS of USA
6. High Speed Train: Top speed 486 km/h; Rails in commercial operation: 7531 Km
5: JiaoLong Manned Submarine: 7000 meters below sea level, covers 99.8% of global ocean area
4. Chang'e-2 Moon Satellite: Reached moon in 5 days (it took Chang'e-1 12 days); Resolution 10 meters
3. Tianhe-2 super computer: Ranks No. 1 in the world
2. J-20 fighter jet: Stealth fighter
1. Ground-Based Midcourse Defense Test: Destroy hostile missile in its midcourse in the outer space.
 

singa

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China really made a HUGE progress in year 2010:

1. Almost 10000km Express way was added to its express way system, now up to 74K km in total. In 2011 or 2010 was expected to exceed USA's expressway length.
2. the HSR speed broke commercial record twice, now up to 486km/h.
3. J-20
4. Space shuttle to moon again;
5. Mid- course anti missile
6. Chinese GPS
7. Fastest computer;

The achievement above is not surprised me. What surprised me is that it is out of my expectation.


For people who cannot read Chinese, this video is a ranking of Top 7 Achievements of China in 2010:

7. Beidou-2 Guiding System: Equivalent of GPS of USA
6. High Speed Train: Top speed 486 km/h; Rails in commercial operation: 7531 Km
5: JiaoLong Manned Submarine: 7000 meters below sea level, covers 99.8% of global ocean area
4. Chang'e-2 Moon Satellite: Reached moon in 5 days (it took Chang'e-1 12 days); Resolution 10 meters
3. Tianhe-2 super computer: Ranks No. 1 in the world
2. J-20 fighter jet: Stealth fighter
1. Ground-Based Midcourse Defense Test: Destroy hostile missile in its midcourse in the outer space.
 

houde10000

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1) Go over Chinese 2000 year history after Jesus was born, I really can not find another good neighbor like India:

a. China was invaded by northern barbarian, such Hun, Turky, Mongolian, Manchu, etc. so many times, and the nation was conquered twice at 13th and 17th century.

b. Japan invaded China crossing Korea Peninsula at 8th, 16th, 19th, 20th century, only between 1931~1945 in anti-japan war, over 35 million chinese was killed by japanese army.

c. Korea, Vietnam, etc. as Chinese Subsidiary country, When China was strong and health, chinese empirer protect them and feed them, when China fall, those bastards bited back, stole chinese land, culture, everything.

d. India is totally different, China got Buddhism from India, and today, Buddhism is dissolved in chinese culture so deep, if take all Buddhism from chinese culture, so hard to see what can be left. It is already in chinese blood, no matter the people is Christian or Muslin, "FO" is in every chinese heart.

e. I did a long time search, there is only a not sure conflict between India and Chinese at 9th century, because chinese Tang dynasty diplomatic corps was attacked by upper indian king, only the Head guy run away, he collected army to revenge, finally he caught the king and bring him back Tang's capital "Chang An".

2) The Modern China and India were found at end of 1940s, and treat each other as brother. Why thing was changed in 10 years? To be fair and honest, that's fault on indian side. India can get 1000 national security reasons, but the truth is that indian troop cross the traditional border between China and India, the current MacMahon Line is not a legal border, never been accepted by any Chinese government, it was not even recognized by British themself.

I know you will say that Tibet is not China, that's bullshit, as I mentioned in early replying, go search in any famous library to find world or asian map published before 1950, even published by British-Indian government, then let me know, I take my words back!!!!

Indian government has to find an excuse to make the "MacMahon Line" to be legal, Tibetan government as local (provincal) government didn't have foreign right to sign any border treat, so Tibetan was an independant country, China invaded Tibetan, ..................

Indian political leaders should have long vision, they can decide the future between two nations. Ocuppying 90,000sqk chinese land, and in the meantime to be friend with China, that is impossible.

3) Indian are so enjoy to compare with chinese in every aspect, but for chinese, they never seriously thought India as a competitor, for chinese, there is only one target to catch up: USA.

You guys believe or not, Chinese economic in any standard, is much better than Indian, about 15 to 20 years ahead!! even the IT area, chinese side did very well in the passed 5 years, chinese market itself has big demand to support chinese IT industy, which indian doesn't, right?

4) Do you remember the "first human footprint on moon" picture? you know the jet engine can blow any dust away, how can Armstrong leave a so clear footprint without any dust? I don't want to say American is liar! because I know they want to leave a better impression to world.

For chinese government, they did too many such kind of "stupid/funny" things: the Beijing Olympic little fraud girl singer, for me, either little girl is beautiful, but for chinese government, they just want to make thing look perfect, which doesn't really need.

For Chinese GDP statistic data, I don't believe it either, I think it is much higher than chinese government reported!!! Every chinese family has its gray income, mostly higher than the regular/public income, the gray income is not counted in GDP at all, I don't have any official number about gray income, just depend on my knowledge to calculate, the gray income is over 1/3 or GDP at least.

For different chinese province, it has different reason to correct the GDP number, most province won't make high number, because nobody want to pay more tax to cental government!!! And central government also doesn't want a high number, because it will give American more reason to push chinese Yuan increasing.
 

cw2005

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To be fair, statistical figure such as GNP from any country could not be fully representing what has been happen. May be the one from China is even more questionable because of its political system. I used to work in a company in China in 1997. This was a company 100% owned by Foreign investor and their product had to be exported and not to be sold in China. But reality was its product was all sold to the local market through certain lophole in the system. At this point one might concluded that China's export might be greatly reduced from whatever in the report. But wait a minute, these products, more than 60% of them actually end up in neigboring countries such as Russia, Vitnam and other South Asian countries via cross border trade. The conclusion is that whatever figure came out from China, it is difficult to know how accurately it is. One thing for sure is that its CPI is not accurate at all.
 

shaka

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Frankly speaking, I take western sources with a pinch of salt regarding china. they are not to be trusted regarding china as they have their own motives. India should learn from its own intelligence regarding China.

I dont want India to follow China or compete with it. India has its own type of civilization, likely oldest in the world. We should make Indian system which was left by British more compatible with Indian culture/ way of thinking, which is based on Dharam. There is no point in becoming a super power and dominate others. This never was Indian thinking, definitely not a dharmic one.

What is the point of making our country a superpower if you are going to be naked at an airport ? :happy_2:
 
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Armand2REP

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So China's growth is not real, our remarks are real?

GZ dark as a small cell in the US of Asses or France? Get real:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=619404&page=13

Living off 600 RMB a month? Which dark corner do you hail from? Which century are you living in? 600 RMB a month? If you want to make up something, try at least be more creative.

RMB will appreciate 20-30% over the next couple of years before settling down on a more stable footing. China's productivity increase will be several times that of the US in the foreseeable future, implying massive appreciation for yuan against dollar. China is still on the starting block in so far as urbanization is concerned. China's service industry has hardly made an impact. China's infrastructure building is also far from completion, for China aims to make her each and every major province, such Liaoning, Shangdong, Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Fujian, Guangdong ect...a France, a Germany, Spain, the UK. Rest assured, my prediction regarding 2015 will not only be realized but surpassed. Of course, you can always live in denial and claim: all is not real. lol!

Let time be the judge. :happy_2:
Fly over a city like Toulon and compare it to flying over Guangzhou, French streets are well lit, buildings full. I have to walk the hall to my Chinese flat in complete darkness in the middle of the night. On a floor holding 20 apartments, only 5 of them are rented. Look out the window right before the shops close at night and there are only scattered lights on here and there in the maze of highrises. Of course you have to peer through a haze to see it. I thought they were going to clean this air for the Asian Games but I can barely breath. Thank GOD it just rained. This is Tianhe I am talking about, it is not exactly the poor district.

After they pay rent, they have 600RMB to live man. Chinese workers in my company only make like 2500-3500 which is like an office wage here. Rent is expensive, like 2000RMB for anything decent outside downtown or get a roomate and live close. Anything less is a hole in the wall. I pay 4000 for my place but split the rent The one thing China got right was public transportation, the bus and metro are great. Only wish they would print the bus schedule in English like they do the metro.

For the RMB to appreciate greatly, CCP has to be willing to sacrifice exporters because they are only making ends on the margins. Raising the currency will make exports less competitive killing them. China's only selling point is cheap, and let me tell you, everything here is built on the cheap. Even a McDonalds Big Mac combo will cost you 23 RMB and you get these tiny little fries, small coke and NO MEAT. Little tiny patties with nothing there... sad. Don't get me started on KFC chicken man... it is like Chinese do not feed their chickens. No meat on the bones at all... bone and skin. Had to go to the Arab market to get a decent sized piece of chicken.

Chinese productivity is getting worse, not better. So many people wasted cleaning streets. Throw your trash down and someone with a broom to sweep it up. Why bother placing trashcans? That kind of attitiude is prevalent throughout Chinese industry. It is about mass employment... not efficiency. I will tell you why Chinese service industry doesn't take off. You can't use a credit card hardly anywhere. A society based on cash will not get a service consumer based economy. Get CCs, cheap housing, universal health and good pensions and maybe we can talk about the future of Chinese services. It is a pain in the arse just to move money in this country and financial services are a huge market China misses out on. China infrastructure is done... they do not need hardly any of the crap they still build around here. Maybe if you could teach people how to DRIVE they could make better use of it instead of waiting every hour to clear an accident.

I am here living the China man... nothing I think about its future has changed. Actually just reinforced my previous statements.
 

houde10000

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Meh..

China's working population is going to drop as more people go into retirement and less people enter it (1 child policy and gender imbalance).

China's ability to continue to provide cheap goods will be lost as labour prices increase.

Man, the thing is not really like you image:

1) The chinese political leaders are not stupid to be blinded what you know.

2) Chinese population is over 1.4 billion, there is no enough resource to support that much people with high living standard, so China still apply serious birth control policy. But it should not be simply called One Child Policy, because in rural area, most family has at least 2 children, even in urban area, only the couples working ifor government, are strictly following this policy. In city, if husband and wife are both from single child family, they are allowed to have their second child, for example, Chairman Mao grandson, General Mao Xinyu, he has 1 girl and 1 boy with his current wife (He also has 1 girl with his ex wife).

3) As you mentioned the reason, in urban area, the chinese tradition get chanlleged, more and more young couple want to have daughtor, not son, but in rural area, peasant family still need man power working in the field, most family will keep pregnant til one son is born, naturally this won't break the gender balance. In fact, the balance was seriously broken in 90s, because rural clinic start to use ultrason to distinguish fetus gender, then a lot of femal fetus were aborted. since Chinese government strengthened management of altrasonic equipment in 2000s, the situation has improved significantly.

The gender balance problem is not a simple birth gender balance problem, it is more complicated:

eq. every year, more than 3 million chinese students graduated from university/colleage, over 50% are girl, as normal, girl is looking for a husband with higher degree than herself, there will be a problem, many women with high education degree can not find husband, and many men with low degree can not find wife.

eq. before 2009, more chinese women marry foreign men, but now, the tend is changing, more and more foreign women marry chinese men.

eq. The chinese society is getting more mature, open mind and tolerant, the sex industy get wide and public, for man and woman from different class, can easily find the sexual supply.

Gender balance is big problem, but not as simple as you think. For India, you do not has 1 child policy, but you has or you will have the same kind of problems I mention here soon or late.

4) China doesn't need that much labor, because China can not really stepover American by only making jean, shirt, socks, christmas tree......, china is accumulating fund to do industry updating, one 5th generation jet fighter J20 = 10 million jean pants = 100 million dollars, how many labor you need to make one jet fighter??

I don't expect to answer all your question and concern, just give you idea, China may not as you think.
 

houde10000

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The Americans are more sceptical about China than any other country in the world.

China is in competition to overhaul the USA and not India.

Therefore, maybe they would not heed your warning.

More so, since the issue of overtaking (overstepping as per you) the USA, is but a pipedream!

Ray, don't bother to worry about China, just leave chinese to enjoy their pipedream, don't wake them :)

Definately, i will use your pipedream word next time potluck talking with my american colleague.
 

Ray

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You are right.

Like you don't bother about India and so you are here! ;) :)

It really does not bother me the least as to who you speak to - Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin!

In a Indian forum, you talk to Indians.
 
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houde10000

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Frankly speaking, I take western sources with a pinch of salt regarding china. they are not to be trusted regarding china as they have their own motives. India should learn from its own intelligence regarding China.

I dont want India to follow China or compete with it. India has its own type of civilization, likely oldest in the world. We should make Indian system which was left by British more compatible with Indian culture/ way of thinking, which is based on Dharam. There is no point in becoming a super power and dominate others. This never was Indian thinking, definitely not a dharmic one.

What is the point of making our country a superpower if you are going to be naked at an airport ? :happy_2:
Shaka,

1) That's good point: what's for to make the country be a superpower, but people has to be naked at airport!! I should ask american friend :emot15:

2) I have a question to ask you, why India get so aggressive after 1947 independant? that's not like traditional India? India annexed SIKKIM in 1975, swallowed 90,000sqk chinese tibetan land between 1947 and 1963, dismembered Pakistan in 1972, bully Nepel, Butan, Sri lan, Bangladesh, why India need to do that? to be a region super dominate power? you are already!! At least, China was no any interest to chanllege India in that region.

All because of Indian aggresive "Forward Policy", turn China, one of your best friend to be your enemy, and Indian has to suffer the airport naked embarrasses :)

If Indian premier Nehru was not that greedy, made a peaceful deal with chinese premier Zou Enlai, India can still keep at least half of ocuppied chinese land in 1961, and China won't support Pakistan in later war, India could already unit the indian subcontinent, could already be a permanent member of UN security council, at least India doesn't need to spend 20 billion dollars every year on military budget to compete with China and Pakistan.

I think India lost more than she got with her aggressive action after 1947.

I believe Indian will lose more in future if you don't change your foreign policy.
 

houde10000

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You are right.

Like you don't bother about India and so you are here! ;) :)

It really does not bother me the least as to who you speak to - Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin!

In a Indian forum, you talk to Indians.
Ray, let's talking about india, forget about China, I am more curiosity about India, plan to have a 2 week trip there this summer.
 

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