Something else made in China – Chinese GDP

Discussion in 'China' started by Iamanidiot, Dec 7, 2010.

  1. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/12/06/428061/something-else-made-in-china-chinese-gdp/


    intresting leak
     
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  3. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Nothing new for us isnt it. Thay have been cooking books and we all know that. Obviously paid chinese posters here will have another take on it as usual.
     
  4. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    Yusuf we know they are being cooked.But we should exactly know how the cooking of books is done.Badguys parents home is a prime example .They are in a continuous exercise of building and rebuilding to sustain growth rates and most of the chinese growth is infrastructure derived
     
  5. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    Hindustan times China's Correspondent blogs

    http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/middle-order/2010/11/28/cost-check/#more-357


    This shows that their inflation calculation index has a quite different basket of goods with consumer goods having minor weightage i think
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I would like to believe that quite a few of the Chinese posters are not 'paid up' to spread disinformation and propaganda.

    Even if they were, they would at least let us know the 'official view' of China.

    That, too, would be education!
     
  7. tony4562

    tony4562 Tihar Jail Banned

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    18 million cars are projected to be sold in China this year, can you cook this? 2000 jetliners are flying in China, can you cook this? More than 50 million PC were sold in China last year alone, can you cook this?

    Then how much truth there is to India's numbers. Wasn't just couple months ago there was a huge controversy regarding India's GDP figures?

    Don't you think any statistical numbers from a country where election votes take 2 months to count, should automatically be taken with a grain of salt?
     
  8. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Indeed it does.

    It is not a totalitarian regime, where the Boss' word is all empowering and there can be no dispute.

    The election has to be done in phases.

    Counting and recounting is done.

    In case of those standing for election wanting a recount, it means more delay.

    And the phases of elections are not done in one go, or in successive go's. Huge administrative moves of security forces, administrative staff etc have to take place. Therefore, there is a cognizable gap between the phases,

    Hence, two months itself is too quick!
     
  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Is that very difficult in China?

    Now, did these chaps not cook the books in China?

    Two Chinese executed for fraud

    If Yan can cook, so can you! :)
     
  10. tony4562

    tony4562 Tihar Jail Banned

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    40% of Mumbai's population live in slums (not I want to bring this up, just to make a point), most of them wandering around in the streets just trying to secure the next meal, for me any economic figures about them are pretty much meaningless. And Mumbai is the face of India, so you figure how much worth are the stats about India's economy.
     
  11. tony4562

    tony4562 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Indians often accuse China playing the number game and cooking up stats, but in truth is no one cares more about GDP figure than the indians themselves. When sales of cars, computers, houses and everything else including food items only linger at a fraction of China's, its doesn't matter whether you have a trillion dollar GDP or a 10 trillion dollar GDP.
     
  12. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Dharavi the largest slum in the world has a thriving billion dollar economy. In India things dont get reported. If you actually count everything, Indias GDP might just double. Tax evasion is rampant in our country. People cook their books to under report.
     
  13. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

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    yes most of this stuff are bought by government of china so thats its machineary keep working. government money remains with itself only

    its same way as DLF developers sold their fully prepared buldings/various projects to DLF assets (of -course that happened durning slowdown of world economy)
     
  14. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    well,of course there is something strange with Chinese caculation of GDP . it has been discussed many times long ago.

    During cold war,west countries(capitalst bloc) used SNA to measure economy scale with "GDP";
    however, east countries(communist bloc) used MPS to measue economy scale with "Gross output vlaue of industry and agricuture",because Karl Marx didn't acknowlege that sevice section could create wealth.

    As one member of east block,the caculation of Chinese GDP once used MPS too,but after 1980, CHina gradually converted to SNA.
    However, due to the tradition and some reason, the convertion is not so complete.in fact, today, the caculation of CHinese GDP is a mixture of MPS and SNA.

    Thus, the caculation of Chinese GDP is quite unique ,which quite different from west's and India's. It causes that CHinese service section is seriously underestimated. the total Chinese GDP is also underesitmated.

    so, case is that GDP itself is not a good indication to measure economy!
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2010
  15. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    guy, really life quality talks louder than anything economy indication.渗透率

    penetrating rate of the household appliances such as AC .TV sets, washing machines,houses and cars can be a better indication to measure real life quality than per capital GDP.

    Yankees commons can afford cars more easily than CHinese common, almost every Yankee family own 2 cars or more while maybe only 2/10 of Chinese families own cars.so yankees are richer than CHinese.

    so is the comparation of Chinese and Indians..
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2010
  16. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I dont think the topic is about comparing anyone US with China or China with India. Its about cooking books. So dont derail the thread with your usual rants. It may be true that China is progressing rapidly, but it may be not be as rapid as it is shown.
     
  17. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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  18. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    well, it is arguable if Chinese GDP can reflect how Chinese economy go,just as I posted long ago.

    But it is not even worth refuing to argue if Chinese fast economy growth is cooked,because Chinese economy miracle is not only on books ,but aso in our daily life.


    "made in CHina" in Your daily life talk louder than any economy theory.

    well, all I want to say is that :

    In one decade or so, CHina will be a complete industrialized country,with a mature urbanized society.

    Every common Chinese family will also own their cars and moder houses ,as common families in EU and North America.
    Furthermore, China common will have chance to enjoy some more advanced infrastructure than people in EU and North America,such as highspeed railway.

    At that time,nobody will care GDP.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2010
  19. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Right then why cook the books? For some false pride? Gives a kick eh?

    Made in china means cheap stuff in India and thats why lots of smart people print made in Japan or Germany even when they import from China.
     
  20. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    guy. it is hard to tell whether Chinese GDP is overesitmated or underesimated.

    some guys tend to cook GDP ,such as local government officials, because higher growth can bring more chance of promotion for them.

    however, some guys tend to "hide revenues" ,such as private enterprises,because it can bring down tax for them.

    Besides, the caculation of Chinese GDP is a unique mixture of MPS and SNA,and naturelly tend to ignore service section.

    So, Chinese GDP is the balance of above factors.

    BTW,judging from what I can feel myself, I tend to think that Chinese GDP in fact is serious underestimated.especially service section in China are seriously ignored. that is why service section is only less 40% of Chinese GDP,according to Chinese official data.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2010
  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    It is true that people live in slums.

    However, to feel that they are roaming around trying to secure a meal indicates that you do not know Mumbai.

    Mumbai is not the face of India. Rural India is!

    The other thing that you will not understand is the power of religion.Spiritual happiness is more sought after in India than mere creature comforts and money.

    Here is what you describe the slum of Mumbai:

    Jai Ho!
     

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