Small arms of India

hardip

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US................................................................................................
M134D


 

Johny_Baba

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@Johny_Baba You don't need to cock ar15,m4 type of rifles to strip them(not recommended due to safety reason).The reason being that it is divided into upper and lower unlike AK.However ,you do need to cock ak before disassembly.

Hope I am clear.
Yep,Right.

Another thing - Trigger mechanism used in AR-15/M16 allows the user to cock (or cycle the bolt) while rifle is on safe.

While you can't do it on Garand-type trigger used on Kalashnikovs.
 

Johny_Baba

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Did anyone ever notice INSAS 1B looks very much like FN FNC?

I read about this incident somewhere.

Late General J. N. Chaudhry wanted to implement FNC in indian army so this might have become our standard issue combat rifle at the time but proposal was rejected by then defense minister Menon.(His words:"No..no..general...we don't want a rifle from NATO.")
 

India22

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I read about this incident somewhere.

Late General J. N. Chaudhry wanted to implement FNC in indian army so this might have become our standard issue combat rifle at the time but proposal was rejected by then defense minister Menon.(His words:"No..no..general...we don't want a rifle from NATO.")
Did not they acquire FN FAL? :facepalm::frusty: Which Menon is this? Nehru era Menon?
 

Johny_Baba

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Did not they acquire FN FAL? :facepalm::frusty: Which Menon is this? Nehru era Menon?
Easy brother,I have an explanation.

First of all,a little correction,
It was General Thimmaiya (not General Chaudhry) who proposed for induction of FN FNC,so pardon me for that.

The incident i mentioned in the post happened during dawn of '60s,when IA was poorly armed against PLA (primarly armed with ancient .303 chambered Short Magazine Lee-Enfield bolt action rifles) hence General Thimmaiya proposed to induce about 60,000 Combat rifles along with various other arms such as lightweight mortars,better radio sets with large stock of batteries etc. to meet critical demand for incoming conflicts.This proposal was rejected by DM Krishna Menon and we all know how fiasco of '62 happened (thanks to various blunders done by Nehru,Menon and other members of the gang).

After 1962 Sino-Indian war,various arms and other things were inducted in our arsenal.Indian version of FAL - the Ishapore 1A rifle was among them,though it still suffered from various delays due to slower production rate hence as 'stop-gap' solution,Ishapore 2A1 or Indian 7.62 x 51 mm/0.308 chambered SMLE was inducted in adequate amount till 1A become availably in large amounts.

I've attached some cuttings (in gujarati language) from a general knowledge monthly magazine popular in Gujarat named 'Safari' (Issue no. 257,October 2015,Page no.60 and 63).
The incident about FAL and General Thimmaiya is taken from it.



Here's the Explanation for those who can't read it
Ques.9 - In the rise of 1962 when attack from chinese was becoming more and more inevitable,the General Thimmaiya proposed to defense ministry to induct modern combat rifles in urgency.Soldiers from various infantry regiments of India were using .303 rifles which were made first in 1888 and countries aroud the globe have already dropped them from active military service.General Thimmaiya proposed to then defense minister Krishna Menon to induct FN FNC assault rifles (shown in photo)in thousands of amount.This rifle was adopted by various nations of NATO.DM Menon rejected the proposal by General Thimmaiya.Why?

Ans.9 - Then DM Krishna Menon had 'communist mindset' and was "against" 'Capitalist' America which created military alliance named North Atlantic Treaty Organisation/NATO to defend against Soviet Union and various European nations were participants in it.Participants of NATO used similar weaponary and cartridges fired by them also referred as NATO cartridges.Belgian FNC automatic rifle was adopted by various participants of NATO as well produced by them in large amounts too.General Thimmaiya proposed to adopt the same rifle which was used by around 90 nations of globe (NATO as well as Non-NATO) for Indian Army but Krishna Menon replied "No.We don't want weapon from NATO in our country !".The kind of thinking of then DM Menon resulted in deaths of many indian soldiers when Chiese attack happened.


I guess if DM Menon let FNCs induct in large amount that rifle would've become our standard issue combat rifle.

Though i don't think 750 rifles per week is a low rate of manufacturing (~36000 rifles per year) though need some explanation regarding it.
 

India22

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Easy brother,I have an explanation.

First of all,a little correction,
It was General Thimmaiya (not General Chaudhry) who proposed for induction of FN FNC,so pardon me for that.

The incident i mentioned in the post happened during dawn of '60s,when IA was poorly armed against PLA (primarly armed with ancient .303 chambered Short Magazine Lee-Enfield bolt action rifles) hence General Thimmaiya proposed to induce about 60,000 Combat rifles along with various other arms such as lightweight mortars,better radio sets with large stock of batteries etc. to meet critical demand for incoming conflicts.This proposal was rejected by DM Krishna Menon and we all know how fiasco of '62 happened (thanks to various blunders done by Nehru,Menon and other members of the gang).

After 1962 Sino-Indian war,various arms and other things were inducted in our arsenal.Indian version of FAL - the Ishapore 1A rifle was among them,though it still suffered from various delays due to slower production rate hence as 'stop-gap' solution,Ishapore 2A1 or Indian 7.62 x 51 mm/0.308 chambered SMLE was inducted in adequate amount till 1A become availably in large amounts.

I've attached some cuttings (in gujarati language) from a general knowledge monthly magazine popular in Gujarat named 'Safari' (Issue no. 257,October 2015,Page no.60 and 63).
The incident about FAL and General Thimmaiya is taken from it.



Here's the Explanation for those who can't read it




I guess if DM Menon let FNCs induct in large amount that rifle would've become our standard issue combat rifle.

Though i don't think 750 rifles per week is a low rate of manufacturing (~36000 rifles per year) though need some explanation regarding it.
Thanks for info but FN FNC came to service in 1979. I think Indians should have taken AKM as Service Rifle.
 

Johny_Baba

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Thanks for info but FN FNC came to service in 1979. I think Indians should have taken AKM as Service Rifle.
Oops! I should've cross checked before posting it here.

Then as the clipping from book on FN FAL says,it must be AR-10 or AR-15 which was proposed to then DM Menon.
 

hardip

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yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees when i and many expert seee thisrifle then first ... think its like aFNC and many smilermix wepons....
 

sbm

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It was the AR-15 and JFR Jacob was on the evaluation team. When the INSAS was adopted, he was bemused as the AR-15 was rejected partly because of its calibre.
 

Indx TechStyle

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India Tests New Carbines
Pune-based Armament Research & Development Establishment (ARDE) is getting ready to offer indigenously developed Joint Venture Protective Carbine (JVPC) carbine for the Indian Army
The Indian Army is to use a variety of new generation carbines for its existing weaponry. The state-owned Pune-based Armaments Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) is already testing a 5.56 caliber carbine to replace existing Russians carbines. Simultaneously the Indian Army is also searching for carbines in the global market.
ARDE is developing a new Modern Sub-machine Carbine (MSMC), which will replace the Russian 9mm-caliber carbine currently used by the Indian Army and the Indian paramilitary forces.
Final trials are underway to ensure 99.7% reliability for the new carbine”, said an ARDE scientist. The MSMC is effective up to a range of 200 meters.
However, a senior Indian Army officer said that they would prefer to use carbines from overseas market and not depend solely on the homemade MSMC.
The New MSCMC
The MSMC was originally part of the Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) Program, undertaken by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), initiated in 1982 to provide an indigenous small arms weapons system for the Indian armed forces. A rifle, a light machine gun (LMG) and a carbine were eventually designed as part of the INSAS family.
According to DRDO, introduction of soft-body armour rendered the erstwhile 9 mm carbine, which was operational with the Indian Army, ineffective. This led to the development of the 5.56 mm MSMC.
The problem also lay with the concept of using the same ammunition for all three weapon systems, the LMG, rifle and the carbine. The 5.56 ammunition proved to be too heavy for the short range MSMC, giving a higher recoil and flash effect than was desirable.
The new MSMC features include: a semi bull-pup weapon feed system behind the trigger mechanism, retention of butt, fitted in housing configuration, noise-reduction technology using CFD analysis for development of silencers; reflex sight and passive night sight; and integration of laser spot designator on MSMC for close quarter battle.
Besides, the MSMC has a pistol grip, which allows single-hand firing capability; magazine feeding through pistol grip; retractable butt for better stability while firing; ambidextrous cocking; fire selector to suit left and right hand firers, and, a three-point sling for better carrying and maneuverability.
The ammunition for MSMC is of conventional type with the bullet cylindro-ogival for better ballistics as compared to a 9 mm round. A steel insert has been introduced in the tip of the bullet to achieve better penetration power.
Source>>
 

Johny_Baba

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Inglis Pistol (Canadian Browning Hi-Power) being fired by Larry Vickers.

Our very own Pistol Auto 9mm 1A is licensed-manufactured variant of this pistol.
 

Trinetra

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Recently MoD has chosen a bullet proof jacket for 1.5 lakhs IA soldiers from MKU industries.. Does any any have info and pic of how Jacket looks like?? an how safe is the product??
 

Johny_Baba

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Do anyone has Pics of Troops from Royal Army of Oman with INSAS ?
 

Kunal Biswas

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The standard issue are like these as they are over used, The one manufactured by unit tailors are much better ..

The plates from MKU and TATA will be used only in those custom design plate carriers via unit tailor ..

Do anyone has Pics of Troops from Royal Army of Oman with INSAS ?
We seriously need to work on those bullet proof jackets and the weight of...see that the weight is dragging the soldier down...
 

Johny_Baba

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We should develop a new pistol in 5.56 x 30 mm MINSAS,Similar to renowned FN FiveseveN which is chambered for 5.7 x 28 mm.
 

Gessler

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View attachment 13374 This photo is from today
Ganderbal encounter, it looks like soldier is holding Ghatak assault rifle, can anyone confirm this, @Kunal Biswas sir
View attachment 13375

As Kunal said...it's an upgrade kit for older AKs. Here's a better angle -


The upgrade components are all sourced from FAB Defense which is an Israel-based company. The components include -

Handguard with Quad Rail


Picatinny Dust Cover (PDC)


T-FL QR foregrip (can be set in 7 positions)


AGR-47 pistol grip


UAS-AK P stock with collapsible cheek-rest


There are dual optics (holographic + magnifier), the holo is an Ultra Shot M-SPEC series from Sightmark...not sure what the magnifier is, but it's also likely from the same company. And yes, the magnifier can be flipped to the side when not is use.



 

Johny_Baba

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@Gessler Amazing find friend...

What makes me sad is same kinda parts could've made here easily but due to 'Various circumstances' we had to Import it.After all,Someone doesn't require rocket science to make such parts.
 

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