Small arms of India

ghost

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Which piston will suit indian conditions in future?
I don't know for sure ,but long stroke piston are known for their reliability under hard conditions ;ak47 and tavor are two rifles operating on it.Since these two have seen successful extensive service in Indian armed forces; IMHO, I would go with long stroke piston.Having said that, the much successful and renowned Scar operate on short stroke piston.So, testing all the major rifles will be the right way to go.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Just adding to above post, Its 1B1, Excalibur as well as Amogh carbine..

Almost 7 million being operated by Armed forces of India in various versions.

 

rishivashista13

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I don't know for sure ,but long stroke piston are known for their reliability under hard conditions ;ak47 and tavor are two rifles operating on it.Since these two have seen successful extensive service in Indian armed forces; IMHO, I would go with long stroke piston.Having said that, the much successful and renowned Scar operate on short stroke piston.So, testing all the major rifles will be the right way to go.
But , Dragunov and our own MCIWS uses short stroke piston .

Sent from my Micromax Q380 using Tapatalk
 

tharun

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Just adding to above post, Its 1B1, Excalibur as well as Amogh carbine..

Almost 7 million being operated by Armed forces of India in various versions.

70 lakh guns..........to replace them all with new guns would be quite challenging...
Bhai tell me you choice that one gun can replace all guns in india...
 

armyofhind

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But , Dragunov and our own MCIWS uses short stroke piston .

Sent from my Micromax Q380 using Tapatalk
Short stroke gas pistons are generally more efficient as the piston doesn't have to travel too much distance to load the next cartridge.

Possibly more accurate as well because the chances of vibration in the weapon are lesser.

Long stroke pistons are easier to maintain like on the AK or INSAS series.
 

Kunal Biswas

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It took 4-6 years to replace SLR from Infantry only ..

Excalibur MK1C, But would prefer a 16inch barrel instead of an 18inch ..
 

rishivashista13

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Short stroke gas pistons are generally more efficient as the piston doesn't have to travel too much distance to load the next cartridge.

Possibly more accurate as well because the chances of vibration in the weapon are lesser.

Long stroke pistons are easier to maintain.
Yes , off course short stroke produces less recoil and more rate of fire then long stroke .
But I don't think the mode of operation and action affects the selection of rifle , it totally depend upon the performance of rifle in different conditions and its ability to fulfill the requirements of user .

am I correct ?

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ghost

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But , Dragunov and our own MCIWS uses short stroke piston .

Sent from my Micromax Q380 using Tapatalk
Short stroke piston have three major advantage:

1 Higher cyclic rate: because bolt carrier moves with higher velocity in absence of piston attached to it,hence it has higher rate of fire.

2 Less recoil : since the moving mass in short stroke is small(compared to long stroke) ,it has comparatively less recoil.

3 Accuracy: By virtue of less recoil it has good accuracy.

Long stroke has better reliability ,this does not mean that short stroke have bad reliability!Scar is a fine example of it.

Hence, many prefer short stroke piston due to these advantages;it's up to you what do you prioritize.
 

ghost

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It took 4-6 years to replace SLR from Infantry only ..

Excalibur MK1C, But would prefer a 16inch barrel instead of an 18inch ..
Why,It would compromise on range.Plus ,7.62 would be preferred.
 

Kunal Biswas

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No it does not, The points raised are more of disadvantage in military sense ..

I can point them out, If you like ..

Why,It would compromise on range.Plus ,7.62 would be preferred.
Short stroke piston have three major advantage:

1 Higher cyclic rate: because bolt carrier moves with higher velocity in absence of piston attached to it,hence it has higher rate of fire.

2 Less recoil : since the moving mass in short stroke is small(compared to long stroke) ,it has comparatively less recoil.

3 Accuracy: By virtue of less recoil it has good accuracy.

Long stroke has better reliability ,this does not mean that short stroke have bad reliability!Scar is a fine example of it.

Hence, many prefer short stroke piston due to these advantages;it's up to you what do you prioritize.
 

ghost

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No it does not, The points raised are more of disadvantage in military sense ..

I can point them out, If you like ..
Sir,please go ahead.

P.S : More than the rifle, good optics will bring in the real difference.Hope army realize their importance and instead of going in for red dot reflex sight ,goes for sight with at-least 4x magnification.

Something like this:

 
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Kunal Biswas

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1. Indian Army despise high rate of fire, Many unit modify their service rifle ( 1B1 ) to fire in slow rate, So that we know where our bullets are hitting and we could know its a burst rather than a single shot. more over during night in burst option one tracer round in slow rate enable us to count and fire with accuracy.

2 & 3. Reliability and weight are always the primary factors which decides the fate of a firearm fit for service or not, Present rifles such as 1B1 and AKM and derivatives hardly produce much of a recoil which is negotiable by our standards, Hence compromising with reliability is not a good prospect for an firearm which intend to be in Indian service.

===================

Unfortunately their is no training with optics with respect to rifleman in Indian Army, Reason we still go around with 1B1 with empty on rail, Their is need for change in rifleman training with respect to new technologies and just not SF.

I personally like ACOG.

And if you are looking for ACOG alternatives, Then this thread might help you, I posted it during 2013 : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/acog-alternatives-legal.51466/

Short stroke piston have three major advantage:

1 Higher cyclic rate: because bolt carrier moves with higher velocity in absence of piston attached to it,hence it has higher rate of fire.

2 Less recoil : since the moving mass in short stroke is small(compared to long stroke) ,it has comparatively less recoil.

3 Accuracy: By virtue of less recoil it has good accuracy.

Long stroke has better reliability ,this does not mean that short stroke have bad reliability!Scar is a fine example of it.

Hence, many prefer short stroke piston due to these advantages;it's up to you what do you prioritize.
Sir,please go ahead.

P.S : More than the rifle, good optics will bring in the real difference.Hope army realize their importance and instead of going in for red dot reflex sight ,goes for sight with at-least 4x magnification.
 
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tharun

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sbm

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I don't know if anyone has seen this but there was a RSTV documentary on the ITBP.

Here are some caps of some of the weapons issued to the ITBP in its formative years. I can ID M3 Grease Guns, BARs, M1 Garands, M1919A6 LMGs, M1911 0.45 (revolvers not so good at identifying), variants of SMLE GF rifles and P17 Enfields.

vlcsnap-2016-12-18-11h15m15s786.png
vlcsnap-2016-12-18-11h15m16s577.png
vlcsnap-2016-12-18-11h15m18s091.png
vlcsnap-2016-12-18-11h15m18s805.png
vlcsnap-2016-12-18-11h16m39s726.png
vlcsnap-2016-12-18-11h16m49s682.png
 

Kunal Biswas

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Their are plenty of Chinese knock off were captured by then, Some of them saw active use after the War ..
 
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Bornubus

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M3 grease along with AKS 74U is in active service with Special Frontier Force.

Hotchkiss SMG was used by SFF in the past along with BAR LMG, M1 grand, M1 carbine.

===================================================================

Also, captured Paki M1 grand and M1 carbine were issued to ex servicemen during 80s including my Nana Ji (maternal grandpa). It's now a prohibited arms for civilians and ammo could only be purchased from Black in Mhow.


Civilian M1 grand with ex Para commando

 

sbm

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Bornubus, M3 still in SFF service ? Any photos of the M1 Carbine etc in Indian service?
 

hardip

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chines global time saiys :india(army-hardware) nothing against chines...(army-hardware)

by one thing If think about our brave army ....its always wrong.... (only our brave army given always proud.. and always will be...)

...but In think about Harware race we r thousand mile behind than Chinese .....

the first think is ..".India still finding better Primary Rifle...."
..
 

hardip

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here is some ... Ordinary ..LMG And MG .. Used By Top military Power...

Which is Lacks OF indian Army from many year and still In Future...

 

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