Skirmishs at LOC, LAC & International Border

[patriots]

one jco injured by pak firing. ..pray for his speedy recovery

 

[mayfair]

It's not just about docking it's the duty and tax. Why Chinese built one single road from Gwadar to Karakoram?

The idea is 1) not depending on India. 2) Gwadar is deep sea port 3) to avoid tax in every state unlike India.

1. That road despite all weather claims, is avalanched at least 3-4 months a year. Maintenance heavy.

2. A deep sea port by its own is meaningless unless it can be transformed into a major training hub.

3. How will inter-country tax instead of inter-state tax avoid multiple taxation?

Chines presence is Gwadar is motivated by only one fact- a warm water naval base close to Indian ocean and one that can be supplied by Land, air or sea if necessary, even if cost-prohibitive.

 

[Screambowl]

1. That road despite all weather claims, is avalanched at least 3-4 months a year. Maintenance heavy.

Even our roads in Himalayas experience landslides every month .. not big deal.

3. How will inter-country tax instead of inter-state tax avoid multiple taxation?

Deep see port means , the ship can dip or submerge further thus taking more load.

. How will inter-country tax instead of inter-state tax avoid multiple taxation?

Just one tax which India will take from China for transporting the goods. Instead of Charging in every state and making things complicated. Make it as a service tax + GST than obligatory state or road tax. This would require some formulation.

Chines presence is Gwadar is motivated by only one fact- a warm water naval base close to Indian ocean and one that can be supplied by Land, air or sea if necessary, even if cost-prohibitive

Not just warm water , well even they have one in Lanka now. But the fact is, Gwadar is close to west India , financial capital and all western cities are uned their radar.

It should have been India which would be developing Gwadar not Chinese.

 

[Kshithij]

Even our roads in Himalayas experience landslides every month .. not big deal.


Deep see port means , the ship can dip or submerge further thus taking more load.


Just one tax which India will take from China for transporting the goods. Instead of Charging in every state and making things complicated. Make it as a service tax + GST than obligatory state or road tax. This would require some formulation.


Not just warm water , well even they have one in Lanka now. But the fact is, Gwadar is close to west India , financial capital and all western cities are uned their radar.

It should have been India which would be developing Gwadar not Chinese.

Have you heard of SEZ? These are there for this taxation reason only. However, only export oriented goods are allowed here. In other words, export oriented goods need not worry about tax.

Gwadar is nearer to India but is in pakistani land. Are you insane in suggesting that India must finance this port? Why would pakistan allow it? Pakistan would state that India will harbour spies in the name of investments

 

[Screambowl]

Are you insane in suggesting that India must finance this port? Why would pakistan allow it?

Because without India, they cannot make Gwadar really a port. India will always be a competitor and there fore India started boosted it's sea transportation. This will reduce the traffic in Gwadar. It's only a potential naval port for Chinese nothing else. The cost of operation at Gwadar will rise.

 

[mayfair]

It's only a potential naval port for Chinese nothing else. The cost of operation at Gwadar will rise.

That is right...Gwadar has no other utility except as a Cheeni naval base.

Karachi, bin Qasim and Pasni are under-utilised so if this were about business, those ports would have been good enough...

 

[Kshithij]

That is right...Gwadar has no other utility except as a Cheeni naval base.

Karachi, bin Qasim and Pasni are under-utilised so if this were about business, those ports would have been good enough...

The way I see it is that China wanted to keep their goods flow quick and free from risk of Pakistan military doctrine. Pakistan may also have wanted China to get to build a new port.

The existing port was already overcrowded and the infrastructure like roads, railways were already available and a new highway couldn't be built as they would pass through settlement areas and cause problems. So, choosing a greenfield area without burdens of the past was better for chinese. Also, Karachi port was Pakistani military port too which made it difficult to let China have control over it. Gwadar port is controlled by china and has little day to day interference from Pakistan

 

[mayfair]

The existing port was already overcrowded and the infrastructure like roads, railways were already available and a new highway couldn't be built as they would pass through settlement areas and cause problems. So, choosing a greenfield area without burdens of the past was better for chinese. Also, Karachi port was Pakistani military port too which made it difficult to let China have control over it. Gwadar port is controlled by china and has little day to day interference from Pakistan

Like I said, the above ports are under-utlilsed. I read somewhere that Karachi running only at 45% capacity. Bin Qasim not even that because Pak Steel Mills that were meant to be prime users have gone kaput..

The so-called CPEC highway is already passing through areas that already have the infra. The two original routes west of Indus were quickly abandoned. The Railway lines cannot go into the mountains..

Gwadar was chosen for one reason that it's sufficiently far from prying eyes and from Indian short-range missiles. The place has no water to sustain itself.

 

[Kshithij]

Like I said, the above ports are under-utlilsed. I read somewhere that Karachi running only at 45% capacity. Bin Qasim not even that because Pak Steel Mills that were meant to be prime users have gone kaput..

The so-called CPEC highway is already passing through areas that already have the infra. The two original routes west of Indus were quickly abandoned. The Railway lines cannot go into the mountains..

Gwadar was chosen for one reason that it's sufficiently far from prying eyes and from Indian short-range missiles. The place has no water to sustain itself.

You are missing one thing - Gwadar is controlled by China. They can never control Karachi as it already has existing control mechanisms. China constructed a new port to avoid the useless bureaucracy of Pakistan by having full control over port.

Indian missile can reach Gwadar too as it is 500-600km from India. Agni 1 missile can hit anywhere in Pakistan if fired from border of India. Gwadar is safer from India not because it is far but because it is under chinese control and hence India has no reason to attack it in a war with Pakistan. By this, safety of Chinese will also be ensured.

 

[Tanmay]

I guess its much easier to oversee gulf of Oman and control the oil flow from Gwadar than Karachi which is quite a distance away. In 1971 indian navy blockaded Karachi thus stopping oil flow to Pakistan. Now with Gwadar things might get a bit difficult to blockade Pakistan. Plus any attack on Gwadar by India might give a ruse of war to China.
Chabhahar is there but I don't think Iran will be helping india during war. As such OIC countries have usually helped Pakistan .
Anyways is it better to move the discussion to other thread

 

[mayfair]

I am not disputing that. But Gwadar was never about trade. It's a PLAN base pretending to be the new Dubai.

Commercially, that port makes no sense at all. Nothing of note passes through, or will pass through its docks, apart from token stuff.

But you are correct that Karachi has other issues. I am not sure that proximity to India is that big a factor, since much of CPEC actually passes very close to our borders, including our land under illegal Napaki occupation. During a war, that will be we first to be taken out.

My point about missiles was different. In a war, it's cheaper and easier to launch hundreds of short range surface-to-surface missiles and rockets ans arty than using intermediate to long range ones. Karachi will be taken out by the first salvo of Prithvi, Prahar, Pinaka, Brahmos etc. From well within our borders. For Agni 1 to hit Gwadar, we'll need to station them relatively close to the border, where as for Karachi, we can fire Agni 1 from deep inside.

 

[Righteous Warrior]

http://zeenews.india.com/india/chin...eize-advantage-in-doklam-sources-2065639.html

 

[Indian Sniper.001]

http://zeenews.india.com/india/chin...eize-advantage-in-doklam-sources-2065639.html

BS. What they are not telling is India has forced their hand to maintain troops in Doklam, from to almost no/minimum troops the previous years. The media is playing their fiddle. We are increasing their costs. Our troops are regular in such hostile places, what about theirs? Its a demotivating factor.

 

[cyclops]

BS. What they are not telling is India has forced their hand to maintain troops in Doklam, from to almost no/minimum troops the previous years. The media is playing their fiddle. We are increasing their costs. Our troops are regular in such hostile places, what about theirs? Its a demotivating factor.

The terrain is not on their side, the supply routes are very adverse, and the only way they see a clear victory, if they decide to escalate, is is through a short and violent campaign and that is possible only if they are outnumbering us efficiently.

Hence the troop buildup.

We on the other hand have the terrain and can make them bleed both through men and resources.
Our guys are acclamitised, battle hardened and actually shoot at insurgents who shoot us back and unlike chinis who have at best only shot at unarmed Tibetan defectors.

Our boys are volunteers who are in it for life and not forced conscripts of civilians who would rather just do their time and go back home safely to their family already under strain from the one-child policy.

At this point they are testing us.
But the chinis are no pakis, they will turn tail the moment they see us better prepared for the fight Nathu La and Cho La incidents proved that.

Afterwe showed them their place they are in a hurry to avenge the humiliation and build up their numbers and I think we are doing the right things to give them perpetual heartburns.

What matters now is the end of winter.

China possibly has some degree of technological advantage over us, though I doubt its enough if a skirmish takes place.

 

[Kshithij]

The terrain is not on their side, the supply routes are very adverse, and the only way they see a clear victory, if they decide to escalate, is is through a short and violent campaign and that is possible only if they are outnumbering us efficiently.

Hence the troop buildup.

We on the other hand have the terrain and can make them bleed both through men and resources.
Our guys are acclamitised, battle hardened and actually shoot at insurgents who shoot us back and unlike chinis who have at best only shot at unarmed Tibetan defectors.

Our boys are volunteers who are in it for life and not forced conscripts of civilians who would rather just do their time and go back home safely to their family already under strain from the one-child policy.

At this point they are testing us.
But the chinis are no pakis, they will turn tail the moment they see us better prepared for the fight Nathu La and Cho La incidents proved that.

Afterwe showed them their place they are in a hurry to avenge the humiliation and build up their numbers and I think we are doing the right things to give them perpetual heartburns.

What matters now is the end of winter.

China possibly has some degree of technological advantage over us, though I doubt its enough if a skirmish takes place.

I don't think China is an enemy. But, we need China bogey to build up arms. If we go bonkers and build arms the way I seek - 10 lakh nuclear bombs, 50 lakh missiles, 10 thousand ships and submarine, 2 lakh fighter planes, choppers and drones etc, we will have to give the excuses of building for combating China. Else, Pakistan will and its muslim friends will get alarmed

 

[Yggdrasil]

I don't think China is an enemy.

In what sense? The only relevant question is: do you think they would use force to try to cut off chicken-neck/take Arunachal Pradesh?

I think they might.

Many Indians are not aware of the hysterical and paranoid brainwashing the entire nation of PRC goes through from birth to dotage. The government is pitting China against the whole world in security matters, crying victim and hiding the truth from its people. I think such a hyper-charged and brainwashed nation of zombies could easily be made to jump at a non-threatening move from its adversary.

Contrary to popular belief, China is not a cold, calculating, cunning power that people think it is. It is a paranoid, hysterical, and brainwashed power with a hugely inflated sense of its own superiority and ability.

 

[indus]

I don't think China is an enemy. But, we need China bogey to build up arms. If we go bonkers and build arms the way I seek - 10 lakh nuclear bombs, 50 lakh missiles, 10 thousand ships and submarine, 2 lakh fighter planes, choppers and drones etc, we will have to give the excuses of building for combating China. Else, Pakistan will and its muslim friends will get alarmed

If it was a joke then we can all laugh. But
China is sitting on thousands of Kms of Indian landmass. Aksai Chin, Kailash mansarovar, Shaksgam valley to be precise. China blocks India's NSG bid and vetos UN sanctions on Masud Azhar. The less said abt 1962 the better. China is arming Pak and working on containment of India by buying land and ports all around in our neighbourhood. Still if China is not the enemy then I wonder who is...

 

[Kshithij]

If it was a joke then we can all laugh. But
China is sitting on thousands of Kms of Indian landmass. Aksai Chin, Kailash mansarovar, Shaksgam valley to be precise. China blocks India's NSG bid and vetos UN sanctions on Masud Azhar. The less said abt 1962 the better. China is arming Pak and working on containment of India by buying land and ports all around in our neighbourhood. Still if China is not the enemy then I wonder who is...

First, China can't contain India as Indua has the strategic location. Second, the Aksai Chin is not Indian by any means. No king had crossed the himalayas into it. It is 100% barren.

China will lose all gas once oil runs out. It can never travel thousands if kilometres without the energy supplied by oil. Since oil is not permanent, why are you so worried of China?

It was USA that armed Pakistan with BVR missiles, nuclear technology and missiles. Pakistan was always USA ally

 

[Suryavanshi]

once oil runs out

Oh Kshitij ji China has it's own oil reserve and oil isn't gonna run out any time soon.

 

[Kshithij]

Oh Kshitij ji China has it's own oil reserve and oil isn't gonna run out any time soon.

Definition of soon?

Chinese oil consumption is 11.3 million barrels a day. It is about 4 billion barrels a year. World oil consumption is 30 billion barrels (4.3 billion tons) a year. 1 barrel =159.8 litres. 7.2 barrels = 1 ton.

Iron consumption is 2.2 billion tons a year for the entire world.

So, tell me how long is oil going to keep flowing?