Discussion in 'Military Aviation' started by Pulkit, Jul 19, 2014.
Russian 6th generation warplane to be created in 12 years | idrw.org
Please add some quote from the link ..
It's depressing to see only the Redirect link.. it's for you and Abhi
First build the fifth generation aircraft right.
We will talk about 6th generation after that. Come back in fifteen years.
exactly my thoughts, Russians haven't perfected 5 generation fighter, it will take a solid 10 yrs to make it perfect and they have started a 6 gen plane.doubtful ?
There will be new technologies added new weaponary news avionics in 6th gen no one is aware of whats gonna be in 6Th gen Aircraft...
Developing 6th Gen parallely will help them build a better 6th gen as all the capabilities og 5th gen are gonna be part of it aswell...
There might be something which can be developed independently and later used as a part of 6th Gen....
@Hari Sud @anupamsurey
Point taken ......
PAKFA is already halfway through state trials. By next year end we will start seeing the first deliveries.
It is possible their 6th gen jet is either like the BAE Taranis or an unmanned version of the PAKFA. It is not entirely clear.
I wonder how a full arms sanctions will affect Russian aviation projects...
It will do nothing.
Okay. You know better on the components of Russians high tech systems. But I I just read that the Germans has halted halted military tech exports to Russia.
Components can be sourced from anywhere. If Germany closes its export business to Russia, then they will just import from France or from the Russian civilian industry itself.
These are COTS, or commercially off the shelf. You can use the processors in PS4 in your aircraft. So, if Japan sanctions Russia, Sony won't be able to sell PS4s to the Russian military industry.
You can make electronic components that are military grade or civilian grade. And anybody can make those.
The components will temporarily become more expensive when they have to switch suppliers. India switched from Russian suppliers to South African for some components in the MKI. Eventually some Indian supplier may be able to produce the same components at equal or better quality and IAF will switch to that if they get a better deal.
Indian satellite wirings come from France. The reason is because ISRO can't waste time manufacturing these things, so they outsource. There were no Indian companies which could provide the same level of quality at the time hence why they depend on French suppliers. Similarly, a Russian company can come forward to supply components to the Russian military industry.
These are simple nuances of any business, not just the military.
Sanctioning Russia is Germany's loss, not Russia's.
Haven't you seen Armageddon? It's the first 15 seconds.
Russia will not win in a sanctions game with the West. Putin is banking on the gambit that European powers will continue to be fragmented on tougher sanctions. But MH17 changed that. Right now EU is preparing for a sweeping arms sanctions against Russia with France and Britain unwilling to give up what they already signed with Moscow. But German Der Spiegel has made it clear who will be the loser should Putin continue to dare the Europeans:
SPIEGEL Editorial: Time to Impose Tough Sanctions on Russia - SPIEGEL ONLINE
Do you actually believe that? It is not so one-sided. Sanctions will hurt both sides. Right now, they are sanctioning people and some businesses. A blanket ban on entire industries will be real bad for everybody.
If there is a complete blanket ban on Russia, then Europe is going to have to look for more expensive suppliers. This will work in India's favor also since we are currently negotiating a 30+ year oil and gas contract with them.
As far as the military is concerned, the economic and tech sanctions will not affect the military programs.
More than 35% of German oil and gas supplies are dependent on Russian fields. If India couldn't find suppliers for just 7% of our needs when Iran was sanctioned, where do you think Germany will get that kind of supplies from? Everybody is walking on thin ice.
Just how important is Russian gas for Europe? | Business | DW.DE | 17.04.2014
And Germany is currently the best performing European economy and the only one with the kind of money required to bail out the EU. Now, if the Germany economy tanks, what makes you think Russia will be the only one hurt?
The Norwegians are the next biggest suppliers followed by Algeria and Nigeria. There's no way US can supply gas to Europe so quickly and in such large quantities.
OTOH, there's China.
BBC News - China and Russia sign 30-year gas deal
Until these deals are implemented, Russia's largest non-EU importer is Ukraine, which is paltry compared to the size of the Chinese deals.
And then there's this.
Modi, Putin to discuss $40 billion India-Russia gas pipeline
[/quote]The hydrocarbons pipeline is likely to have a minimum price tag of $40 billion and would take four to five years for completion after the necessary modalities are completed, which itself is likely to take a considerable time.[/quote]
The pipeline alone costs nearly $40 Billion, so how much do you think the actual deal will cost? Could be similar to China's $400 Billion, maybe more. And I believe they are investing $20-25 Billion on the pipeline.
So, Russia is in a much better position with very long term plans going up to 2050. Germany doesn't even have a proper short term plan for the same. Italy is also in the same position as Germany. Only France escapes this due to their dependence on nuclear power.
Almost all economic experts agree that if EU decide to sanction Russian economic sectors then Russia will lose more. European companies no doubt will lose but not as much as what Russia is bound to lose. Even now European officials are already calling on the EU to develop an assistance package to firms that will be severely affected by stronger Russian sanctions. European defence firms are expected to be affected more.
BTW, Hague Court just awarded shareholders of Yukos $51Billion against Russian state. Looks like burden for Russia is starting to pile up.
Fact is Russia is simply no match for the combined weight of all the major Western powers. What is lacking so far is the resolved of these Western powers, which as I said already changed.
Yes, it is true that European consumers can diversify by reducing Russian dependence. But it is also true that this type of change will take a decade to just decide upon. Russia doesn't need to be a match to any European power. It is just an oil and gas supplier and it won't take long to sanction a country such as this. Russia will recoup with China and India as its newest importers. Russia currently exports 40 billion meters of gas to Germany a year. The oil deal with China is 38 billion cubic meters which will be achieved by 2023. When the Indian pipeline is ready, Russia may begin selling gas to India at a similar level, 30-40 billion cubic meters.
Russia wants to further diversify to other Asian countries by extending pipelines ASEAN.
Russia interested in Trans ASEAN Gas Pipeline project - Lavrov | Russia & India Report
This is what I'm getting at. Russia has a plan of action.
All those economic experts agree when it comes to number and statistics, but how long will it actually take to implement? Ask them that question and they will all come to only one conclusion, they need time. What kind of investment is Germany looking at if it has to rebuild its infrastructure to get the same type of gas from Arab fields? And can the Arab fields actually manage such large supplies? Can Norway supply at the same rate as Russia is?
Going by this, Russia's largest trading partner is the EU. Russia's biggest exports are natural resources. Russia's biggest imports are manufactured products.
Russia can always look for other buyers of its resources and can always import manufactured products from China and Japan. China is already exporting to Russia in a big way.
So what are EU's possible escape routes?
You are looking up the wrong tree. EU's larger economy is not necessarily an advantage. The bigger they are the harder they fall. As long as Russia supplies to EU, the EU won't take a harder stance. The more Russia diversifies in its exports, the lesser the EU's influence on Russia is.
Northrop Developing 6th Gen Fighter Plans
Any ideas on what technologies a sixth gen aircraft should consist of?
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